120Hz, 240Hz - what's the big deal??

[link_of_hyrule]

I don't understand the big draw to TVs displaying 120Hz or higher. I gues 60 Hz is/was the standard, right? When I switch from 60 to 120, the picture/motion just looks weird. Like a home movie or cartoon. Is this the intent? Keeping it at 60 Hz seems to keep the movie looking like a "Hollywood" movie. Is it just me, or what?

[LoveHomeTheatre]

What your seeing is not 120hz but motion interpolation. 120hz is just the refresh rate. What gives it that soap opera feel is something seperate. For example, some TV's like Samsung call it motion flow I believe. Lets take a regular film thats being put through at 1080p/24. Normally, at 120 Hz with no motion interpolation, it will refresh it 5 times.

xxxxx

where x is qual to each frame repeated 5 times (120/24 = 5)

Motion interpolation inputs extra frames that "guess" where the next frame will be using complex algorithms in between each frame giving you

xoxoxoxoxo where x = original, o = interpolated

Thus results in the soap opera feel you get. Some people like it, some don't. Its all personal preference but motion interpolation does not give you the original picture. hopefully this helps.

[dgator783]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

I don't understand the big draw to TVs displaying 120Hz or higher. I gues 60 Hz is/was the standard, right? When I switch from 60 to 120, the picture/motion just looks weird. Like a home movie or cartoon. Is this the intent? Keeping it at 60 Hz seems to keep the movie looking like a "Hollywood" movie. Is it just me, or what?

it helps if u watch alot of sports or action-fast moving films

[Clark Kent]

Many people find that it looks weird for material shot on film but some like how it makes live-action video look like sporting events.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by LoveHomeTheatre

What your seeing is not 120hz but motion interpolation. 120hz is just the refresh rate. What gives it that soap opera feel is something seperate. For example, some TV's like Samsung call it motion flow I believe. Lets take a regular film thats being put through at 1080p/24. Normally, at 120 Hz with no motion interpolation, it will refresh it 5 times.

xxxxx

where x is qual to each frame repeated 5 times (120/24 = 5)

Motion interpolation inputs extra frames that "guess" where the next frame will be using complex algorithms in between each frame giving you

xoxoxoxoxo where x = original, o = interpolated

Thus results in the soap opera feel you get. Some I like it, some don't. Its all personal preference but motion interpolation does not give you the original picture. hopefully this helps.

+1 that's what's going on, you have motion interpolation on. That's the "HD Video look" you get , that most don't like. 120Hz does help & 240Hz should help just a bit more as far as MR goes, hopefully?

[Fors*]

I do not think you will "see" that much of a difference with 240hz set. What LCD's really need to improve upon are their response times being below 4ms...just my opinion.....

[Erman_94]

can this motion interpolation be turned off?

and will most models have this in the future? i dont like it

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by Erman_94

can this motion interpolation be turned off?

and will most models have this in the future? i dont like it

Yes the frame interpolation can be turned off. it can also be set to low, medium, or high on most newer Gen displays. "Off" is usually the way to go when watching blus, except Transformers. then it's Low

[link_of_hyrule]

I just don't get the point of 120Hz/240Hz if its better to just turn it OFF during regular viewing.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

I just don't get the point of 120Hz/240Hz if its better to just turn it OFF during regular viewing.

I don't want to upset anyone, so what I think you meant to say was to turn off the "motion enhancer" or "motionflow" as you can't "turn off" a TV with 120 hz. Lets not any more than we have been.

It all depends on the source and how it was intending to be viewed. The motion enhancer settings from low to high provide interpolation (adds missing frames to give it a smoother look) for fast moving scenes, which some complain about gives it the look of a "soap opera effect", especially with movies. I think the motion enhancer or motionflow works very well with sports and even with most PIXAR or cartoon material. But ultimately, it is up to the viewer.

[starkent08]

how bout those avs lol

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by link_of_hyrule

I just don't get the point of 120Hz/240Hz if its better to just turn it OFF during regular viewing.

As Forsberg already said, you cannot turn off the 120Hz. what you are turning off is the "motion enhancement." 120Hz purpose is to reduce motion blur and to properly display 24p source material. and yes once again>

[Got2LoveGadgets]

Originally Posted by LoveHomeTheatre

What your seeing is not 120hz but motion interpolation. 120hz is just the refresh rate. What gives it that soap opera feel is something seperate. For example, some TV's like Samsung call it motion flow I believe. Lets take a regular film thats being put through at 1080p/24. Normally, at 120 Hz with no motion interpolation, it will refresh it 5 times.

xxxxx

where x is qual to each frame repeated 5 times (120/24 = 5)

Motion interpolation inputs extra frames that "guess" where the next frame will be using complex algorithms in between each frame giving you

xoxoxoxoxo where x = original, o = interpolated

Thus results in the soap opera feel you get. Some people like it, some don't. Its all personal preference but motion interpolation does not give you the original picture. hopefully this helps.

This is an extremely good explanation of what is happening. Refresh rates are going to be the new buzz words in the same was as 720p and 1080p are now. Refresh rates are going to be very important when 3D finally gets released to the consumer market, home displays will have to run at a very minimum of 120hz and then multiples of this 240hz ect. So we will soon see stickers stuck on LCD's that say 1080p 120hz 3d ready (or something similar)

[BluCheez]

I only use my Sony XBR4 LCD for BDs and DVDs. The distortion that results from the interpolation along with that unreal-feel, cause me to leave the Motion Enhancer off all the time.

The exception is Baraka. For whatever reason there is minimal distortion with the Motion Enhancer set to high and it gives a "hyper-real" effect to the movie. If you have Baraka, give it a try. It is very cool.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by BluCheez

I only use my Sony XBR4 LCD for BDs and DVDs. The distortion that results from the interpolation along with that unreal-feel, cause me to leave the Motion Enhancer off all the time.

The exception is Baraka. For whatever reason there is minimal distortion with the Motion Enhancer set to high and it gives a "hyper-real" effect to the movie. If you have Baraka, give it a try. It is very cool.

I usualy have mine off too, except for certain programing. I do however like the option to turn it off or not in those instances where I can turn it on to add to my viewing experience (i.e sports (especially hockey) and cartoons.)

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by BluCheez

I only use my Sony XBR4 LCD for BDs and DVDs. The distortion that results from the interpolation along with that unreal-feel, cause me to leave the Motion Enhancer off all the time.

The exception is Baraka. For whatever reason there is minimal distortion with the Motion Enhancer set to high and it gives a "hyper-real" effect to the movie. If you have Baraka, give it a try. It is very cool.

Try Planet Earth as well

[BluCheez]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Try Planet Earth as well

I have, and it worked well most times. I am really fussy about any artifacts, smearing or blurring, so if I see more than a bit, OFF goes ME. On Planet Earth, I notice the artifacts around fast moving objects, say like a wolf trying to catch a baby caribou.

Baraka surprises me, because there is often a lot of movement, but few artifacts and smearing. I wonder if the 8K mastering and/or high bitrate have anything to do with it.

I tried putting ME on for the IMAX scenes in The Dark Knight, but I had to turn it off right away because it looked so "off"... Perhaps the type of content featured in Planet Earth or Baraka (i.e. nature) lend themselves to ME.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by BluCheez

I tried putting ME on for the IMAX scenes in The Dark Knight, but I had to turn it off right away because it looked so "off"... Perhaps the type of content featured in Planet Earth or Baraka (i.e. nature) lend themselves to ME.

I had the same issue with artifacts and I had to turn it off as well. Once you notice them, it seems like you see them in every scene thereafter.

[BluCheez]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

I had the same issue with artifacts and I had to turn it off as well. Once you notice them, it seems like you see them in every scene thereafter.

I find that the more I learn about TV calibration and the more I tweak, the less I am willing to put up with. When I first got my TV the attitude was, "If they have all these advanced features it would be a waste not to use them." However, I've learned that more is not always better. Two quick examples:

1. Detail and Edge Enhancement: both of these settings may cause the picture to "pop", but they also cause artifacts. Look at the chain link fence on the Dark Knight when Alfred drives his car to the underground bunker after finding Bruce absent from his penthouse. With DE and EE on the fence with shimmer and distort. I though this was normal until I started tweaking. Turn them off and it looks normal, the way it should.
   
2. Backlight: some feel that brighter will result in a more vibrant picture. At first I was surprised when someone suggested that the best contrast is obtained with the Backlight at minimum. I tried it just yesterday, and after recallibrating my blacks and whites (with my AVS disc) I am amazed at how great it looks. Look at the black leather jacket of Spooner in i Robot when he first talks to "the richest man in the world" (forgot his name). I also noticed that with the backlight at minimum the noise is reduced.

Ahhh, the joys of being fussy. I am just amazed at how often people will put up with a terrible looking picture because they are intimidated by the settings or couldn't be bothered.

Cheers!

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by BluCheez

I find that the more I learn about TV calibration and the more I tweak, the less I am willing to put up with. When I first got my TV the attitude was, "If they have all these advanced features it would be a waste not to use them." However, I've learned that more is not always better. Two quick examples:

1. Detail and Edge Enhancement: both of these settings may cause the picture to "pop", but they also cause artifacts. Look at the chain link fence on the Dark Knight when Alfred drives his car to the underground bunker after finding Bruce absent from his penthouse. With DE and EE on the fence with shimmer and distort. I though this was normal until I started tweaking. Turn them off and it looks normal, the way it should.
   
2. Backlight: some feel that brighter will result in a more vibrant picture. At first I was surprised when someone suggested that the best contrast is obtained with the Backlight at minimum. I tried it just yesterday, and after recallibrating my blacks and whites (with my AVS disc) I am amazed at how great it looks. Look at the black leather jacket of Spooner in i Robot when he first talks to "the richest man in the world" (forgot his name). I also noticed that with the backlight at minimum the noise is reduced.

Ahhh, the joys of being fussy. I am just amazed at how often people will put up with a terrible looking picture because they are intimidated by the settings or couldn't be bothered.

Cheers!

I agree whole heartedly agree. I always keep the enhancements off and I have my backlight at around 2 or 3 and use Movie mode on my Sammy. My wife thought it looked way to dark when I did it, but now that it has been a few months, she doesn't even notice how "dark" it is, but I always make sure to point out the blacks whenever I can.