Something that bothers me about no faith in seeing HD TNG, DS9, VOY

[monkeyjb1988]

Why are people so sure that the Star Trek spin-offs are never going to see an HD release? I mean, they were shot on film, the miniatures and most special effects were shot on film, and what little CG was used could be replaced. Granted, there's also compositing the blue-screen shots, but today's equipment can make short work of that. Read this post from a forum:

http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/topic/8274/3/0

Plus, I think Pride and Prejudice was edited on video (I could be wrong), but it has a Blu release. It doesn't have Star Trek like effects, but it should show that an HD Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and Voyager are not totally out of the question. Why on earth are people so quick to assume it won't happen?

[benricci]

For TNG - the special effects were composited for video - specifically NTSC resolution. They would have to re-create or re-composite all of the special effects (of which there are MANY) in order to create an HD master.

Not to mention going back to the original film elements (if they are still around) and cleaning them up as well. When this show was on the air, the final episodes were stored on NTSC video masters, which is how they exist today.

It's one hell of an undertaking, in terms of cost and man-hours.

[al cos.]

Apart from the effects shots, is it a different situation than Seinfeld? just curious.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by benricci

For TNG - the special effects were composited for video - specifically NTSC resolution. They would have to re-create or re-composite all of the special effects (of which there are MANY) in order to create an HD master.

Not to mention going back to the original film elements (if they are still around) and cleaning them up as well. When this show was on the air, the final episodes were stored on NTSC video masters, which is how they exist today.

It's one hell of an undertaking, in terms of cost and man-hours.

It's a lot more than that.

The entire show was shot and transferred to D1 digital tape. The raw footage was edited there, in addition to the VFX being composited and other opticals.

So for TNG and the other shows (except Enterprise) they would have to locate ALL the original raw footage and re-edit the shows.

[monkeyjb1988]

Originally Posted by al cos.

Apart from the effects shots, is it a different situation than Seinfeld? just curious.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

So for TNG and the other shows (except Enterprise) they would have to locate ALL the original raw footage and re-edit the shows.

Which was what Seinfeld had to do: re-edit for HD. To answer al cos; no, TNG and Seinfeld are basically the same minus the effects: They both need to be re-edited with new HD scans of the original film to be ready for Blu and HD broadcast. The only other difference is that Seinfeld already been remastered in HD while the Trek spinoffs are still waiting.

[benricci]

Seinfeld went back to the original film source, and scanned them all for HD.

Star Trek TNG - well, I mean it's 20 years later. Who knows where the original film elements are? I bet they never thought they'd have to keep them handy and in good shape since all the masters were done on video.

So yeah, they'd have to track all that film footage down, re-do all the effects and then re-edit every single show.

Do you honestly think that's gonna happen anytime soon?

[mlim77]

Originally Posted by monkeyjb1988

Why are people so sure that the Star Trek spin-offs are never going to see an HD release? I mean, they were shot on film, the miniatures and most special effects were shot on film, and what little CG was used could be replaced. Granted, there's also compositing the blue-screen shots, but today's equipment can make short work of that. Read this post from a forum:

http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/topic/8274/3/0

Plus, I think Pride and Prejudice was edited on video (I could be wrong), but it has a Blu release. It doesn't have Star Trek like effects, but it should show that an HD Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and Voyager are not totally out of the question. Why on earth are people so quick to assume it won't happen?

Don't forget that these shows were NOT shot in widescreen either, or am I wrong?

[benricci]

Originally Posted by mlim77

Don't forget that these shows were NOT shot in widescreen either, or am I wrong?

Well, the full frame film could always be matted to 16:9, like they did with Seinfeld. That would remove some of the top and bottom picture, but that's how most 1.85:1 motion pictures are created anyway.

I bet it would cause a controversy in the Star Trek community if they were presented in modified aspect ratios. So they could be "pillarboxed", meaning that the image only takes up it's original 4x3 ratio within the 16:9 frame - think Casablanca. Even in that scenario, there is still room for greater resolution and picture quality.

[monkeyjb1988]

Originally Posted by benricci

Seinfeld went back to the original film source, and scanned them all for HD.

Star Trek TNG - well, I mean it's 20 years later. Who knows where the original film elements are? I bet they never thought they'd have to keep them handy and in good shape since all the masters were done on video.

So yeah, they'd have to track all that film footage down, re-do all the effects and then re-edit every single show.

Do you honestly think that's gonna happen anytime soon?

Maybe not soon, but not impossible. How can someone say Seinfeld would keep the film but Star Trek wouldn't. I think Paramount probably kept the film.

Originally Posted by mlim77

Don't forget that these shows were NOT shot in widescreen either, or am I wrong?

Originally Posted by benricci

Well, the full frame film could always be matted to 16:9, like they did with Seinfeld. That would remove some of the top and bottom picture, but that's how most 1.85:1 motion pictures are created anyway.

I bet it would cause a controversy in the Star Trek community if they were presented in modified aspect ratios. So they could be "pillarboxed", meaning that the image only takes up it's original 4x3 ratio within the 16:9 frame - think Casablanca. Even in that scenario, there is still room for greater resolution and picture quality.

1.33 HD looks just as good as 1.85 HD. I'm angry that Seinfeld is getting cropped for widescreen when it was meant for fullscreen. I'm hoping the Blus are at least 1.33. And yes, Star Trek fans would be up in arms of any of the spin-offs got cropped. It'd probably be a bloodbath almost.

[al cos.]

Seinfeld started in 89, Trek in 87, so finding the elements should be no problem. If they did it, isn't it likely they'd trickle out slowly in syndication first, like they did with original Trek?

[benricci]

Originally Posted by al cos.

Seinfeld started in 89, Trek in 87, so finding the elements should be no problem. If they did it, isn't it likely they'd trickle out slowly in syndication first, like they did with original Trek?

You have to remember, however, that Seinfeld was not an effects-driven show. The original film elements for TNG were transferred immediately to video masters, so that effects and editing could all be done in the video world. The likelihood that they thought they would need the original film elements in the future was probably much lower.

TNG also stopped filming around 1993, before HD was even a real thought in the public's mind. Senfeld stopped in the late 90s, when HD was not only starting to be broadcast, but widescreen sets had been available for a few years during the course of the show's initial run. It's more likely that they would have been more future-thinking with this knowledge, than the producers of TNG who ended a few years earlier.

Just my assumptions...

[Monolithium]

I'd have no problem with a 16:9 and enhanced visuals version of TNG and DS9. As long as paramount provides the original version as well.

[DVDave]

I watched my DVDs of TNG and it is in DIRE need of a remaster. Lots of aliasing on FX shots, interlacing and tape dropours and RF noise induced during the post production finishing. With TOS all they had to do was rescan the film prints and drop in new FX shots but TNG would require total reconstruction. They would never be quite the same as the original broadcast masters. Trekkie purists would be very angry that some edits were made that weren't there before. Still, considering all of the analog limitations of the SD masters, I'd welcome newly reconstructed HD masters with state-of-the-art visual FX ala TOS remastered. It would be experiencing this show again for the first time.