Fair Use - Blu-ray Forum

vdub · 08-11-2005, 02:09 AM

What ever happened to fair use.

What right dose a company have to make my player unusable or my media unreadable. This is getting WAY out of hand and it needs to stop. I have the RIGHT to copy my media and I WILL NEVER BUY IN TO ANYTHING THAT USES DRM.

DRM takes away our rights and people are fools if they buy in to this. THERE IS NOT A PIRACY PROBLEM. the entertainment cartel has made people think they are being robed blind wile there profits skyrocket. None of this technology is going to even come close to stooping piracy all it is going to do is make it harder for paying legal costumers to enjoy there media. If this is the future of media piracy will get worse because pirated media is easier to use.

thunderhawk · 08-11-2005, 11:08 AM

Thats right by the way...

This DRM crap, I got one album... And I'll probably deDRM it soon...
I don't know what will happen in future, but I do see M$ and other companies sueing people who got maybe 1 illegal MP3.

Why does the movie industry make so much trouble...????
Ripped movies aren't that great in quality, they suck!

... I really want this to stop too, before they'll lose ALL constumers!

thunderhawk · 08-11-2005, 01:50 PM

If you want, I can PM you a way to get DRM off your files.

vdub · 08-11-2005, 02:07 PM

Hacking DRM isn't the problem.

There are many ways to hack DRM, The problem I have is the DRM itself. It souldnt exist. We have rights that there not respecting and they expect us to protect there rights. This Blue-Ray is the next step in them taking away our rights.

thunderhawk · 08-11-2005, 05:53 PM

Please read this topic too...

https://www.blu-ray.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=467

Its about copy protection... The format will FAIL is they'll use those!!!!

BOONDOCK SAINT · 08-20-2005, 09:21 AM

Ok people why all the crying. What is wrong with a company protecting there investment. If you spent hundreds of millions of dollars on films just to have them copied wouldnt you want somthing to stop it. And i know now you are going to bring up the argument of backing up your movies. Yea right the only reason i can see you crying is cause now you wont be able to rent the movie and crack the simple copy right and dub the dvd for 4 bucks (rental fee 2.99 dvd disc .80 cents)now you will have to spend 20 bucks on it to own it. Life is So Hard.

Bunch of Babies :lol:

Gorkab · 08-20-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOONDOCK SAINT

Ok people why all the crying. What is wrong with a company protecting there investment. If you spent hundreds of millions of dollars on films just to have them copied wouldnt you want somthing to stop it. And i know now you are going to bring up the argument of backing up your movies. Yea right the only reason i can see you crying is cause now you wont be able to rent the movie and crack the simple copy right and dub the dvd for 4 bucks (rental fee 2.99 dvd disc .80 cents)now you will have to spend 20 bucks on it to own it. Life is So Hard.

Bunch of Babies :lol:

Yeah this could be my first argument and I would have the right to! With the price of a movie in HD and just a little scratch on it, I would not be able to buy anothe rone every time I scratch it !!! So this is my right and I want it back.

With your argument of companies losing their investments, you're totally wrong ! With what they are loosing with piracy, you should just wondering why they higher the prices ! They lose nothing compare to what they gain !!! :twisted:

Blue · 08-20-2005, 03:17 PM

I think most people don't have a problem with the studios protecting their investment, however how they go about it is at question. I mentioned under another topic that with the rumours about DRM if they are true (they are now calling it something more user friendly - still the same thing), if they can disable players and possibly media it makes sense so can others that are not authorised - in general terms the computer industry calls this a virus. That is not even going into the debate that if I crack player and it becomes public and common and you have the same model yours gets disabled as well at a studios whim.

Not that I think any company would ever do it, but imagine a dirty fight between BD and HD knocking out each others players. Well at least we know what the first movie to be released would be "Total Recall"!

The biggest risk is the disable key escaping one of the manufacturers - for those that think this would never happen, well the opposite has happened before the "enable" key escaped for DVD. As far as cryptography in the computer industry and keys getting loose, there are a few famous cases, so who knows how many other breaches.

Something for thought, can I return my VHS tape of movie A, the Laserdisc of the same and now the DVD and get a good refund as the major component of the cost is licence fee? I'm not suggesting that it's OK to copy Blu Ray because you have the movie in other formats.

If the studios want to take the moral high ground - those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

zombie · 08-20-2005, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOONDOCK SAINT

Ok people why all the crying. What is wrong with a company protecting there investment. If you spent hundreds of millions of dollars on films just to have them copied wouldnt you want somthing to stop it. And i know now you are going to bring up the argument of backing up your movies. Yea right the only reason i can see you crying is cause now you wont be able to rent the movie and crack the simple copy right and dub the dvd for 4 bucks (rental fee 2.99 dvd disc .80 cents)now you will have to spend 20 bucks on it to own it. Life is So Hard.

Bunch of Babies :lol:

I agree that this is what most people do with current DVD burners and it's a legitimate concern for the studios to want to stop it. That said though, Gorkab is also right that consumers should have a right to make a backup of a disc they own to protect their investment. Perhaps the answer is to not make HD discs available to rent? Ooh, I know I'm going to get people upset with that mere suggestion.

vdub · 08-20-2005, 06:13 PM

I think the only solution is to completely boycott blu-ray and hd-dvd media.

The entertainment cartel need a lesson and we as people need to stop just excepting everything like a bunch of sheep.

So it come down to this is you buy in to this technology you are sheep and you are only making the problem worse. Some day because of what you are doing it is going to get to the point to having video implants put in our head so they can watch everything we do. Because everyone know that all we do with our spare time is copy there stupid movies.

BOONDOCK SAINT · 08-20-2005, 10:24 PM

Ok so I was right your first argument is (but i want to back up my dvds in case of the sudden scratch) Ok they are easily scratched but how in the hell are you scratching them as soon as you get them. Do you mistreat your dvds Do you drop them/ throw them/ maybe chew on them. As easy as there scratched they can be repaired just the same. With scratch repair kits ($5.00 dollars) or you can completly have the thing resurfaced for a few bucks at a local store. And there you go brand new. And yes it is your right to make a back up of the data. The law states that you can make a backup of the data once until they original wears out and then copy the copy because the 1st copy is now the original. But legaly if you make your backup and both are in use then you are breaking the law. So you can make your back up but you can not use it till the original stops working. So here we are in the middle between Pirates and COmpanys protecting there investments. So in stead of fighting the company lets fight both. Lets help figure out away that stops the pirates and lets us make a back up of are movies/music. And now that your thinking about that you have just put your feet into the companys shoes. Not an easy task :?

thunderhawk · 08-21-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

As easy as there scratched they can be repaired just the same. With scratch repair kits ($5.00 dollars) or you can completly have the thing resurfaced for a few bucks at a local store.

I have heard of this for glasses and watches and so, and it works like this: it fills the scratches and pits in the surface...
If you know a little bit about optical disc technology, you know this is the last you want to do...
Or does it work differently :?:

georgir · 08-21-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Quote:

As easy as there scratched they can be repaired just the same. With scratch repair kits ($5.00 dollars) or you can completly have the thing resurfaced for a few bucks at a local store.

I have heard of this for glasses and watches and so, and it works like this: it fills the scratches and pits in the surface...
If you know a little bit about optical disc technology, you know this is the last you want to do...
Or does it work differently :?:

Well the pits/lands for the actual data storage on printed media are in a reflective layer quite deep under the surface of the disk (in the middle of it actually, and im speaking of current dvds and hd-dvd)
recordable and rewritable media doesn't even have pits, but rather a layer that simply changes colour/reflectability/whatever.
So you see you can't fill date pits and erase the data if that's what you're worried about

all you're filling is the unwanted scrathces/pits on the protective layer, so it seems to me that it might actually work

never seen it to be sure though.

vdub · 08-21-2005, 04:11 PM

This is completely off topic. Who cares about scratches. The fact is the law states that you can make a backup.

Isn't the entertainment industry breaking the law by trying to make things un copyable.

And why are they doing all this anyway. This will not stop piracy at all. it will just make there product harder for people to use.

BOONDOCK SAINT · 08-22-2005, 06:47 AM

It wont make it harder to use it will make it harder to misuse. Now for the people who are backing up there movies and music properly and legaly. You are the ones getting the short end of the stick. Cause as long as some arshole rents the movie and dubs fifty copies and sales them at his local flea market. The movie/music companys will take these measurs and justly I think. I mean realy think about it how many of us know one person that has got a copy of a movie before it comes out. Or had a friend copy one of there movies so you could have it to. These little things that nobody thinks about are exactly why the industry is taking measures like this. And i know at least 5people that do it. So in a wierd way we are all to blame. :shock: I hate fealing guilty

vdub · 08-22-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOONDOCK SAINT

It wont make it harder to use it will make it harder to misuse. Now for the people who are backing up there movies and music properly and legaly. You are the ones getting the short end of the stick. Cause as long as some arshole rents the movie and dubs fifty copies and sales them at his local flea market. The movie/music companys will take these measurs and justly I think. I mean realy think about it how many of us know one person that has got a copy of a movie before it comes out. Or had a friend copy one of there movies so you could have it to. These little things that nobody thinks about are exactly why the industry is taking measures like this. And i know at least 5people that do it. So in a wierd way we are all to blame. :shock: I hate fealing guilty

The problem is what there doing is not going to stop that from happening. Its not even going to slow it down. If anything it will get worse because people will realize that pirated media is more usable.

Gorkab · 08-23-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdub

The problem is what there doing is not going to stop that from happening. Its not even going to slow it down. If anything it will get worse because people will realize that pirated media is more usable.

That's right, we can make everything we want with unprotected data taken from something we bought, movies for ourselves, saves, copies for our family (when someone is watching the first Blu-Ray, hop a second one can !), many things !

john_1958 · 02-24-2006, 06:42 PM

boo hoo all those crying over protected movies. i don't see the purpose of boycotting unless the broadcasters want limited use then do you really want to keep them in business

HD recording is just like any other recording media. I remember when people were arguing about cassette tapes when they came out.

But when it comes down to recording i'm all in favor of fair use and record favorite tv shows and not crazed people renting just to rip off the industry

08-11-2005, 02:09 AM	#1
vdub Junior Member Member since:Aug 2005	Fair Use What ever happened to fair use. What right dose a company have to make my player unusable or my media unreadable. This is getting WAY out of hand and it needs to stop. I have the RIGHT to copy my media and I WILL NEVER BUY IN TO ANYTHING THAT USES DRM. DRM takes away our rights and people are fools if they buy in to this. THERE IS NOT A PIRACY PROBLEM. the entertainment cartel has made people think they are being robed blind wile there profits skyrocket. None of this technology is going to even come close to stooping piracy all it is going to do is make it harder for paying legal costumers to enjoy there media. If this is the future of media piracy will get worse because pirated media is easier to use.

02-24-2006, 06:42 PM	#18
john_1958 Power Member Member since:Mar 2005	boycott boo hoo all those crying over protected movies. i don't see the purpose of boycotting unless the broadcasters want limited use then do you really want to keep them in business HD recording is just like any other recording media. I remember when people were arguing about cassette tapes when they came out. But when it comes down to recording i'm all in favor of fair use and record favorite tv shows and not crazed people renting just to rip off the industry

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08-11-2005, 11:08 AM	#2
thunderhawk Moderator Member since:Jul 2004 Location:Belgium	Thats right by the way... This DRM crap, I got one album... And I'll probably deDRM it soon... I don't know what will happen in future, but I do see M$ and other companies sueing people who got maybe 1 illegal MP3. Why does the movie industry make so much trouble...???? Ripped movies aren't that great in quality, they suck! ... I really want this to stop too, before they'll lose ALL constumers!

08-11-2005, 01:50 PM	#3
thunderhawk Moderator Member since:Jul 2004 Location:Belgium	If you want, I can PM you a way to get DRM off your files.

08-11-2005, 02:07 PM	#4
vdub Junior Member Member since:Aug 2005	Hacking DRM isn't the problem. There are many ways to hack DRM, The problem I have is the DRM itself. It souldnt exist. We have rights that there not respecting and they expect us to protect there rights. This Blue-Ray is the next step in them taking away our rights.

08-11-2005, 05:53 PM	#5
thunderhawk Moderator Member since:Jul 2004 Location:Belgium	Please read this topic too... https://www.blu-ray.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=467 Its about copy protection... The format will FAIL is they'll use those!!!!

08-20-2005, 09:21 AM	#6
BOONDOCK SAINT Junior Member Member since:Jun 2005	Ok people why all the crying. What is wrong with a company protecting there investment. If you spent hundreds of millions of dollars on films just to have them copied wouldnt you want somthing to stop it. And i know now you are going to bring up the argument of backing up your movies. Yea right the only reason i can see you crying is cause now you wont be able to rent the movie and crack the simple copy right and dub the dvd for 4 bucks (rental fee 2.99 dvd disc .80 cents)now you will have to spend 20 bucks on it to own it. Life is So Hard. Bunch of Babies :lol:

08-20-2005, 03:17 PM	#8
Blue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Melbourne Australia Blu-ray collection:206	I think most people don't have a problem with the studios protecting their investment, however how they go about it is at question. I mentioned under another topic that with the rumours about DRM if they are true (they are now calling it something more user friendly - still the same thing), if they can disable players and possibly media it makes sense so can others that are not authorised - in general terms the computer industry calls this a virus. That is not even going into the debate that if I crack player and it becomes public and common and you have the same model yours gets disabled as well at a studios whim. Not that I think any company would ever do it, but imagine a dirty fight between BD and HD knocking out each others players. Well at least we know what the first movie to be released would be "Total Recall"! The biggest risk is the disable key escaping one of the manufacturers - for those that think this would never happen, well the opposite has happened before the "enable" key escaped for DVD. As far as cryptography in the computer industry and keys getting loose, there are a few famous cases, so who knows how many other breaches. Something for thought, can I return my VHS tape of movie A, the Laserdisc of the same and now the DVD and get a good refund as the major component of the cost is licence fee? I'm not suggesting that it's OK to copy Blu Ray because you have the movie in other formats. If the studios want to take the moral high ground - those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

08-20-2005, 06:13 PM	#10
vdub Junior Member Member since:Aug 2005	I think the only solution is to completely boycott blu-ray and hd-dvd media. The entertainment cartel need a lesson and we as people need to stop just excepting everything like a bunch of sheep. So it come down to this is you buy in to this technology you are sheep and you are only making the problem worse. Some day because of what you are doing it is going to get to the point to having video implants put in our head so they can watch everything we do. Because everyone know that all we do with our spare time is copy there stupid movies.

08-20-2005, 10:24 PM	#11
BOONDOCK SAINT Junior Member Member since:Jun 2005	Ok so I was right your first argument is (but i want to back up my dvds in case of the sudden scratch) Ok they are easily scratched but how in the hell are you scratching them as soon as you get them. Do you mistreat your dvds Do you drop them/ throw them/ maybe chew on them. As easy as there scratched they can be repaired just the same. With scratch repair kits ($5.00 dollars) or you can completly have the thing resurfaced for a few bucks at a local store. And there you go brand new. And yes it is your right to make a back up of the data. The law states that you can make a backup of the data once until they original wears out and then copy the copy because the 1st copy is now the original. But legaly if you make your backup and both are in use then you are breaking the law. So you can make your back up but you can not use it till the original stops working. So here we are in the middle between Pirates and COmpanys protecting there investments. So in stead of fighting the company lets fight both. Lets help figure out away that stops the pirates and lets us make a back up of are movies/music. And now that your thinking about that you have just put your feet into the companys shoes. Not an easy task :?

08-21-2005, 04:11 PM	#14
vdub Junior Member Member since:Aug 2005	This is completely off topic. Who cares about scratches. The fact is the law states that you can make a backup. Isn't the entertainment industry breaking the law by trying to make things un copyable. And why are they doing all this anyway. This will not stop piracy at all. it will just make there product harder for people to use.

08-22-2005, 06:47 AM	#15
BOONDOCK SAINT Junior Member Member since:Jun 2005	It wont make it harder to use it will make it harder to misuse. Now for the people who are backing up there movies and music properly and legaly. You are the ones getting the short end of the stick. Cause as long as some arshole rents the movie and dubs fifty copies and sales them at his local flea market. The movie/music companys will take these measurs and justly I think. I mean realy think about it how many of us know one person that has got a copy of a movie before it comes out. Or had a friend copy one of there movies so you could have it to. These little things that nobody thinks about are exactly why the industry is taking measures like this. And i know at least 5people that do it. So in a wierd way we are all to blame. :shock: I hate fealing guilty

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