Crossover settings?!?

[azereus]

I've never really been clear on this so i was wondering if anyone can help me confirm whether or not I have my crossover settings correct on my sub and receiver.

On the sub i turned the dial all the way up to 160.

In the receiver I set the crossover to 100.

So my thinking is that anything less than 100 will be sent to the sub. Because the sub is set at maximum (as recommended in the Yamaha manual), it will accept anything less than 160.

Is that correct or am i way off here?

Thanks

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by azereus

I've never really been clear on this so i was wondering if anyone can help me confirm whether or not I have my crossover settings correct on my sub and receiver.

On the sub i turned the dial all the way up to 160.

In the receiver I set the crossover to 100.

So my thinking is that anything less than 100 will be sent to the sub. Because the sub is set at maximum (as recommended in the Yamaha manual), it will accept anything less than 160.

Is that correct or am i way off here?

Thanks

You are correct.

[azereus]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

You are correct.

Thanks.

[liquidice]

...and just to chime in with what I had learned myself, is that there should be a seperate x-over point for each speaker, and you'll want to pay attention to that as well. The x-over point you may be talking about is the LFE x-over, which only has to do with that .1 encoded in the audio track of movies, and that you could set up to 120 as that is usually the highest frequency that would be coded into the surround mix. Does that make any sense?

[Fors*]

If you want more info, I attached a sticky from Big Daddy about the many aspects to consider when setting up your crossovers.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=77011

Enjoy!

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by azereus

I've never really been clear on this so i was wondering if anyone can help me confirm whether or not I have my crossover settings correct on my sub and receiver.

On the sub i turned the dial all the way up to 160.

In the receiver I set the crossover to 100.

So my thinking is that anything less than 100 will be sent to the sub. Because the sub is set at maximum (as recommended in the Yamaha manual), it will accept anything less than 160.

Is that correct or am i way off here?

Thanks

You should turn the LPF (Low-Pass Filter) on the sub all the way up because you want the AVR to do all the bass management. Some subs have a switch to turn it off.

What do you mean by setting the crossover to 100?

In my Denon 1909, if I set all the speakers to small I can set each crossover for them. The AVR will send any sound above the crossover setting (80 Hz is often used) to the speaker and anything below to the subwoofer. This has nothing to do with the LFE information.

There is also a LPF setting which is not a crossover at all. Whatever the LPF is set to (120Hz is often used) it will not send the subwoofer anything above that value from the LFE channel. Note: this is not a setting on your AVR.

If you tell us the AVR you are using we can check what bass management settings it has. Doh! it is in your signature..lol

[StimpsonJCat]

I took a look at your specs and I think you should set the following:

Bass cross over: 110 Hz (this will be the setting for all speakers because the AVR doesn't have individual cross overs)
LFE signals output: SWFR
Low-frequency signals output: SWFR
And make sure all your speakers are set to Small

And turn the LPF dial (not the gain) on the sub all the way up.

Your speakers are rated: 100-20k Hz
Your sub is rated: 35-160 Hz

I would bump the crossover up 10 to make sure you don't lose any information around 100 Hz (the crossovers are a gradual drop off)

Of course you can play around with it and see what sounds best to you.

[Pelican170]

You are fine the way you did it. Thats probably the best way to do it..

[DarkDune]

This can be tricky. Did you hook your Sub to the LFE channel?

In our case, we turn off the LFE on our VSX-37TX THX receiver, and set the Front Speakers to LARGE, and the Left Surround (LS), Surround Back Left (SBL), Surround Back Right (SBR), Right Surround (RS), and Center Channel's (CC) to SMALL.

We then hooked our Subwoofer in line with the Front Speakers so it amplifies anything less than 100Hz (100Hz Crossover on the Subwoofer). The receiver basically sends all LFE signals below 80Hz (80Hz Crossover on the receiver) from the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC to the Front speakers and effectively to the Subwoofer at that point. We chose 80Hz on the receiver for the crossover as the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC all do well to produce bass from 80Hz to 100Hz, and the Powered Subwoofer does a tremendous job amplifying it.

Here is the reasoning from the Powered Subwoofer manual:

A Note About Dolby Digital (AC-3),
Large Front Speakers And Powered Subwoofers

While it is logical to connect the Powered Subwoofer to
the “Subwoofer Output” or LFE (Low Frequency Effects)
output of a Dolby Digital (AC-3) equipped system, there
are some instances when bypassing this output can
result in better sound.

Most Dolby Digital (AC-3) decoders automatically remove the
low bass content from all the Main speakers if the “Subwoofer
Output” switch is set to “On”. The Main speaker “Large/Small”
switches still appear to function, but they are actually locked
in the “Small” mode.

This automatic bass limiting is unnecessary with large Main
speakers. You can effectively send all low-bass and Low
Frequency Effects signals to both your Main Left and Right
speakers and to your subwoofer by turning the subwoofer output
“Off” and setting the Main Left and Right speakers to “Large”.

This blends all the output of the Low Frequency Effects channel
with the Main Left and Right speakers. The Powered Subwoofer
needs to be connected with speaker wire to the Main Left and
Right speaker outputs in this case.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

This can be tricky. Did you hook your Sub to the LFE channel?

In our case, we turn off the LFE on our VSX-37TX THX receiver, and set the Front Speakers to LARGE, and the Left Surround (LS), Surround Back Left (SBL), Surround Back Right (SBR), Right Surround (RS), and Center Channel's (CC) to SMALL.

We then hooked our Subwoofer in line with the Front Speakers so it amplifies anything less than 100Hz (100Hz Crossover on the Subwoofer). The receiver basically sends all LFE signals below 80Hz (80Hz Crossover on the receiver) from the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC to the Front speakers and effectively to the Subwoofer at that point. We chose 80Hz on the receiver for the crossover as the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC all do well to produce bass from 80Hz to 100Hz, and the Powered Subwoofer does a tremendous job amplifying it.

Here is the reasoning from the Powered Subwoofer manual:

A Note About Dolby Digital (AC-3),
Large Front Speakers And Powered Subwoofers

While it is logical to connect the Powered Subwoofer to
the “Subwoofer Output” or LFE (Low Frequency Effects)
output of a Dolby Digital (AC-3) equipped system, there
are some instances when bypassing this output can
result in better sound.

Most Dolby Digital (AC-3) decoders automatically remove the
low bass content from all the Main speakers if the “Subwoofer
Output” switch is set to “On”. The Main speaker “Large/Small”
switches still appear to function, but they are actually locked
in the “Small” mode.

This automatic bass limiting is unnecessary with large Main
speakers. You can effectively send all low-bass and Low
Frequency Effects signals to both your Main Left and Right
speakers and to your subwoofer by turning the subwoofer output
“Off” and setting the Main Left and Right speakers to “Large”.

This blends all the output of the Low Frequency Effects channel
with the Main Left and Right speakers. The Powered Subwoofer
needs to be connected with speaker wire to the Main Left and
Right speaker outputs in this case.

I wouldnt choose to do it that way if it were me...

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

This can be tricky. Did you hook your Sub to the LFE channel?

In our case, we turn off the LFE on our VSX-37TX THX receiver, and set the Front Speakers to LARGE, and the Left Surround (LS), Surround Back Left (SBL), Surround Back Right (SBR), Right Surround (RS), and Center Channel's (CC) to SMALL.

We then hooked our Subwoofer in line with the Front Speakers so it amplifies anything less than 100Hz (100Hz Crossover on the Subwoofer). The receiver basically sends all LFE signals below 80Hz (80Hz Crossover on the receiver) from the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC to the Front speakers and effectively to the Subwoofer at that point. We chose 80Hz on the receiver for the crossover as the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC all do well to produce bass from 80Hz to 100Hz, and the Powered Subwoofer does a tremendous job amplifying it.

Here is the reasoning from the Powered Subwoofer manual:

A Note About Dolby Digital (AC-3),
Large Front Speakers And Powered Subwoofers

While it is logical to connect the Powered Subwoofer to
the “Subwoofer Output” or LFE (Low Frequency Effects)
output of a Dolby Digital (AC-3) equipped system, there
are some instances when bypassing this output can
result in better sound.

Most Dolby Digital (AC-3) decoders automatically remove the
low bass content from all the Main speakers if the “Subwoofer
Output” switch is set to “On”. The Main speaker “Large/Small”
switches still appear to function, but they are actually locked
in the “Small” mode.

This automatic bass limiting is unnecessary with large Main
speakers. You can effectively send all low-bass and Low
Frequency Effects signals to both your Main Left and Right
speakers and to your subwoofer by turning the subwoofer output
“Off” and setting the Main Left and Right speakers to “Large”.

This blends all the output of the Low Frequency Effects channel
with the Main Left and Right speakers. The Powered Subwoofer
needs to be connected with speaker wire to the Main Left and
Right speaker outputs in this case.

This might work alright with towers that can go deep, but his speaker set is rated 100-20k Hz. I don't think in-line would buy him anything.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

This might work alright with towers that can go deep, but his speaker set is rated 100-20k Hz. I don't think in-line would buy him anything.

exactly

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

This can be tricky. Did you hook your Sub to the LFE channel?

In our case, we turn off the LFE on our VSX-37TX THX receiver, and set the Front Speakers to LARGE, and the Left Surround (LS), Surround Back Left (SBL), Surround Back Right (SBR), Right Surround (RS), and Center Channel's (CC) to SMALL.

We then hooked our Subwoofer in line with the Front Speakers so it amplifies anything less than 100Hz (100Hz Crossover on the Subwoofer). The receiver basically sends all LFE signals below 80Hz (80Hz Crossover on the receiver) from the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC to the Front speakers and effectively to the Subwoofer at that point. We chose 80Hz on the receiver for the crossover as the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC all do well to produce bass from 80Hz to 100Hz, and the Powered Subwoofer does a tremendous job amplifying it.

Here is the reasoning from the Powered Subwoofer manual:

A Note About Dolby Digital (AC-3),
Large Front Speakers And Powered Subwoofers

While it is logical to connect the Powered Subwoofer to
the “Subwoofer Output” or LFE (Low Frequency Effects)
output of a Dolby Digital (AC-3) equipped system, there
are some instances when bypassing this output can
result in better sound.

Most Dolby Digital (AC-3) decoders automatically remove the
low bass content from all the Main speakers if the “Subwoofer
Output” switch is set to “On”. The Main speaker “Large/Small”
switches still appear to function, but they are actually locked
in the “Small” mode.

This automatic bass limiting is unnecessary with large Main
speakers. You can effectively send all low-bass and Low
Frequency Effects signals to both your Main Left and Right
speakers and to your subwoofer by turning the subwoofer output
“Off” and setting the Main Left and Right speakers to “Large”.

This blends all the output of the Low Frequency Effects channel
with the Main Left and Right speakers. The Powered Subwoofer
needs to be connected with speaker wire to the Main Left and
Right speaker outputs in this case.

Just curious, but does this also refer to running Lossless Audio or just regular Dolby Digital?

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

Just curious, but does this also refer to running Lossless Audio or just regular Dolby Digital?

Just refers to Dolby Digital. The speakers are from a time before Lossless Audio in the Home Theater marketplace. Still, we get better sound from the VSX-37TX THX receiver this way. Your subwoofer would need to be built to allow you to tie it into the Front Left and Front Right speakers to be able to do this.

From an engineering standpoint, it all made good sense to me when we set it all up as well. If you have LARGE speakers all around though, probably good to stick with the LFE channel for the sub.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Just refers to Dolby Digital. The speakers are from a time before Lossless Audio in the Home Theater marketplace. Still, we get better sound from the VSX-37TX THX receiver this way. Your subwoofer would need to be built to allow you to tie it into the Front Left and Front Right speakers to be able to do this.

From an engineering standpoint, it all made good sense to me when we set it all up as well. If you have LARGE speakers all around though, probably good to stick with the LFE channel for the sub.

oh i see. thanks.

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Just refers to Dolby Digital. The speakers are from a time before Lossless Audio in the Home Theater marketplace. Still, we get better sound from the VSX-37TX THX receiver this way. Your subwoofer would need to be built to allow you to tie it into the Front Left and Front Right speakers to be able to do this.

From an engineering standpoint, it all made good sense to me when we set it all up as well. If you have LARGE speakers all around though, probably good to stick with the LFE channel for the sub.

This seems backwards to me. If you have Large (like old school large with 10" or 12" woofers) speakers then you might want to run all the low frequencies (including LFE) through them, but not if you have Small speakers. With small speakers you would want all the lower frequencies (which it can't produce) to go to the sub.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

This seems backwards to me. If you have Large (like old school large with 10" or 12" woofers) speakers then you might want to run all the low frequencies (including LFE) through them, but not if you have Small speakers. With small speakers you would want all the lower frequencies (which it can't produce) to go to the sub.

isnt that what hes saying?

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

Just curious, but does this also refer to running Lossless Audio or just regular Dolby Digital?

I doubt any receiver worth it's salt would do that- why allow for a crossover setting below 80hz if it's just going to throw everything 80hz and below (or hell, maybe even 120hz and below) at the sub? This may have been true of older and/or cheaper receivers, but I can't see anything manufactured with lossless audio/hdmi/etc to have a hidden setting like that.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

This seems backwards to me. If you have Large (like old school large with 10" or 12" woofers) speakers then you might want to run all the low frequencies (including LFE) through them, but not if you have Small speakers. With small speakers you would want all the lower frequencies (which it can't produce) to go to the sub.

LARGE is for Speakers that are capable of reproducing Low Bass on their own.

SMALL is for Speakers that are incapable of reproducing Low Bass on their own.

That is, if all your speakers are LARGE, you probably would be fine using the LFE output for your low-end sound instead of turning off the LFE, and re-directing the low bass to the FR and FL speakers like we did (since in our case, they are the only LARGE speakers). Our sub is tied to the FR and FL channels and amplifies the bass coming from them.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

This can be tricky. Did you hook your Sub to the LFE channel?

In our case, we turn off the LFE on our VSX-37TX THX receiver, and set the Front Speakers to LARGE, and the Left Surround (LS), Surround Back Left (SBL), Surround Back Right (SBR), Right Surround (RS), and Center Channel's (CC) to SMALL.

We then hooked our Subwoofer in line with the Front Speakers so it amplifies anything less than 100Hz (100Hz Crossover on the Subwoofer). The receiver basically sends all LFE signals below 80Hz (80Hz Crossover on the receiver) from the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC to the Front speakers and effectively to the Subwoofer at that point. We chose 80Hz on the receiver for the crossover as the LS, SBL, SBR, RS, and CC all do well to produce bass from 80Hz to 100Hz, and the Powered Subwoofer does a tremendous job amplifying it.

Here is the reasoning from the Powered Subwoofer manual:

A Note About Dolby Digital (AC-3),
Large Front Speakers And Powered Subwoofers

While it is logical to connect the Powered Subwoofer to
the “Subwoofer Output” or LFE (Low Frequency Effects)
output of a Dolby Digital (AC-3) equipped system, there
are some instances when bypassing this output can
result in better sound.

Most Dolby Digital (AC-3) decoders automatically remove the
low bass content from all the Main speakers if the “Subwoofer
Output” switch is set to “On”. The Main speaker “Large/Small”
switches still appear to function, but they are actually locked
in the “Small” mode.

This automatic bass limiting is unnecessary with large Main
speakers. You can effectively send all low-bass and Low
Frequency Effects signals to both your Main Left and Right
speakers and to your subwoofer by turning the subwoofer output
“Off” and setting the Main Left and Right speakers to “Large”.

This blends all the output of the Low Frequency Effects channel
with the Main Left and Right speakers. The Powered Subwoofer
needs to be connected with speaker wire to the Main Left and
Right speaker outputs in this case.

The other reason this is good is for source that has no LFE channel. For that source, our Powered Subwoofer STILL amplifies signals below 100Hz. If the sub were strictly connected to the LFE channel, then it would be just dead-weight for source without LFE.

Can you argue with that?

This was an "Ah-Ha!" moment for us...