Speaker Placement Help And Tips

[Twitch9]

Optimal Imaging


Measure the distance from your main listening area to the front speakers. For best imaging, place speakers from three-quarters of that distance up to that same distance from each other (3/4 of “X” to “X”). To further optimize imaging, turn speakers slightly inward so they point toward the listening position with their axes crossing just behind it. So if your speakers ar 10' from you seating area, you should have your front L-R from 8'-10' apart in width making sure that they are the same distance from the center channel speaker. You will notice your imaging in the sound will be much better. Always make sure you center speaker in centered with your TV either above or below the TV. Your front L-R should be angled in to the main seating area where the sweet spot is about 2' behind your main listening position. The easiest way to do this is, get a laser pointer place it flush on the inside of the speaker (closer side to the center speaker) press the button and have some stand about 2' behind this position. When you get the laser to line up from both speakers in the same place on the person you are set.

Just wanted to make this thread after looking though some of the HT on the site and wanted to help people who might not know how to properly set up the front three speakers.

Hope this helps

[Clark Kent]

I have always thought the following page was helpful, as it is George Cardas answering questions about proper speaker placement in ideal and not so ideal listening rooms.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...ng+Room+Design

[Twitch9]

That's a great article i read that a while ago but very helpful as well.

[Big Daddy]

Go to A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Speakers. In the middle of the thread, there are guidelines on how to setup your front speakers and the problem if you toe-in your front speakers too much. There are are also guidelines for setting up your bipolar and dipolar surround speakers.

In the Calibrating Your Sound with an SPL Meter thread, there are general diagrams for 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 speaker setups.

You will find general guidelines on a single and multiple subwoofer(s) placement in A Guide to Subwoofers (Part II): Standing Waves & Room Modes.

Additional information can be found in Speaker Placement and Boundary Problems.

[got rice]

I am going to try this. Where would you recommend placing the sub? Between the speakers or to the left/right of the speakers.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Excellent post!

However, I am concerned about the "toe-in" factor. I don't necessarily believe that is a requirement for all front speakers. I think it depends on the type of speaker you have and is something that should be played with over time.

Only posting this becasue I don't think "toe'in" should be viewed as a necessity for optimum imaging.

John

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by John72953

Excellent post!

However, I am concerned about the "toe-in" factor. I don't necessarily believe that is a requirement for all front speakers. I think it depends on the type of speaker you have and is something that should be played with over time.

Only posting this becasue I don't think "toe'in" should be viewed as a necessity for optimum imaging.

John

John,

You are correct. Some people angle their speakers too much and ruin the sound stage. If you have bipolar front speakers, you do not necessarily want them angled toward you.

It is important that tweeters should be about the same level as your ears when you are seated. For smaller speakers, use a stand. Slight tilting backward or forward of the speakers until the tweeters point toward your head may also work.

You can slightly angle (toe-in) the speakers toward the listening chair. You can use a string to make sure both speakers are angled exactly the same. Angling the speakers too much may have two disadvantages:

• It may ruin the sound stage.
• It will not be very effective for others who may be sitting elsewhere in the room.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

Excellent post!

However, I am concerned about the "toe-in" factor. I don't necessarily believe that is a requirement for all front speakers. I think it depends on the type of speaker you have and is something that should be played with over time.

Absolutely correct. My MartinLogan Spires are actually slightly toed out, because that's how I get the best imaging.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by richteer

Absolutely correct. My MartinLogan Spires are actually slightly toed out, because that's how I get the best imaging.

That's interesting Rich, especially when you consider (from the pics I saw) that you have lots of room to spread them.

I'm really interested to hear about your "toe-out" positioning and how you came about doing that.

John

PS: I've been playing with my Totems and the more I spread them the more I hear better imaging. I can't spread them any further though, which is a shame. I'd love to see what they could do at 10 ft or so.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

That's interesting Rich, especially when you consider (from the pics I saw) that you have lots of room to spread them.

I'm really interested to hear about your "toe-out" positioning and how you came about doing that.

John

PS: I've been playing with my Totems and the more I spread them the more I hear better imaging. I can't spread them any further though, which is a shame. I'd love to see what they could do at 10 ft or so.

My Spires are placed in my room according to the "The Extra Tweak" section of the manual, which gives a formula for optimum placement for those for whom domestic considerations aren't an issue. The speakers are placed a certain distance from the front (behind the speakers) and side walls as dictated by the formula (which is related to ceiling height). Edit: That places the middle of the stators about 5 feet from the front wall and just over 4 feet from the sides, with just over 7 feet between them (centre to centre). I sit about 12 feet away from the stator plane.

As for the amount of toe in (or in my case, toe out), I used ye olde flashlight trick, again from the manual. For best imaging, one sits in the "hot seat" and holds a flashlight under your chin. You point the flashlight at each speaker and rotate the speaker until the flashlight is reflected in the inner 3rd of the electrostatic panel.

It's amazing the difference the correct amount of toe in gives. Set up as one would a normal speaker (with the panel facing the listener), the imaging is only so-so. But set up as I describe above--oh my! With the correct source material, the imaging is almost holographic. And that's with my relatively modest preamp and crappy cables. I can only wonder what improvements upgraded components will bring!

[prerich]

Originally Posted by John72953

Excellent post!

However, I am concerned about the "toe-in" factor. I don't necessarily believe that is a requirement for all front speakers. I think it depends on the type of speaker you have and is something that should be played with over time.

Only posting this becasue I don't think "toe'in" should be viewed as a necessity for optimum imaging.

John

Depends on the speaker design itself. Some speakers - such as the SDA's were ment to be straight across. There are other speaker manufacturers that do not recommend toe-in. Others recommend it. It just depends

[-DLS-]

I've got mine pretty much straight - very slightly toed in and they are just over 7 feet apart. I tried them toed in more pointed to my front 2 seating positions for the first couple of weeks that I got them but it actually sounds better straight out from each seating position. Maybe it's my room shape or size?

[MrTaxMan]

I've got the part figured out about how far apart speakers should be and the toe-in. I'm struggling with how far they should be from the back wall. I've got 6.5" bookshelf (RBH MC-6C) on stands so they are about ear height. The problem is the LCD TV screen is only about 7" from wall. I can't put the speakers 2-3 feet from back wall because they would be too far forward of the TV screen. So the front baffles are now 18" from wall. If there was no TV, I could experiment with them much further out. How do others deal with this dilemma? Ceiling is 8 feet.

[Halcro 1]

Speaker placement is an art and usually a two or three person job . KInd of amazing what a couple of degrees and inches forth and back can make.... when we do live sound sometimes that is much better to move mid and horns a few degrees than to spend an hour to EQ ... But thats in 20k watt PA for 15000 people ....LOL

[jomari]

at one point or another we have to compromise with what can be acheived with proper speaker placement, and our living conditions. heck it would be nice to have a designated perfect room, but thats life isnt it? some speakers need to have your speakers at least 2 feet away from the wall, heck others at 6 feet for some floorstanders (RF-82s are an example). thats why i highly emphasize room acoustics and treatments to take care of certain anomalies that results when the room interacts with your speakers.

some speakers need the toe in to get a better sweetspot, others dont, check your speaker manual as reference.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by jomari

some speakers need the toe in to get a better sweetspot, others dont, check your speaker manual as reference.

Well said!

John

[richteer]

Originally Posted by MrTaxMan

I've got the part figured out about how far apart speakers should be and the toe-in. I'm struggling with how far they should be from the back wall. I've got 6.5" bookshelf (RBH MC-6C) on stands so they are about ear height. The problem is the LCD TV screen is only about 7" from wall. I can't put the speakers 2-3 feet from back wall because they would be too far forward of the TV screen. So the front baffles are now 18" from wall. If there was no TV, I could experiment with them much further out. How do others deal with this dilemma? Ceiling is 8 feet.

You can get a good idea of when the speaker is too close to the wall by listening to the bass. When they're too close the bass becomes boomy and "one note" (some people actually think this is an improvement, hence they put their subs in the corner--about the worst place for any speaker!). Move them away from the wall an inch or two at a time until the boominess is gone, and you've found the minimum distance from the wall. As always, refer to the speaker's manual for guidance.

Like I said above, my speakers are about 5 feet from the front wall, but I'm fortunate enough to have a semi-dedicated listening room.

[Travis]

Found this video on placement. http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/vid...placement.html

Never thought surrounds should be higher than ear level or so in line with seat position. Always thought they should be behind listener and toed in like fronts to make a stage or field, never thought they are just for ambient sounds...Anyway, mine are on stands and there is a hallway on the left. They won't be moving.

[saprano]

I have my surrounds at standing ear level. sounds perfect.

Im going to play with my speaker tow in thanks to this thread. i have them already towed in but not to much. imaging sounds good.

[vega2K]

So as far as surrounds ideally needing to be at ear level, what about in-ceiling surrounds or ceiling mounted speakers? Does this mean this is not recommended?

I have my rear surrounds in a 7.1 system directly behind my seated position at about 2 feet away from ear-level. However, I have my L/R surrounds (not rear surrounds) hanging from my 8' ceiling, such that they are about 3' above my head in a seated position and angled so that the drivers point directly to my left and right ear. Surround effect is awesome but it appears it is not recommended, correct? I personally think this is all subjective. You go to decent HT stores, such as ABT and they have in-ceiling surround set-ups and I am always amazed at the surround effect.