need help with speaker placement....

[fastfoci]

anyone here run a 7.1 set up?
im installing my full system (see list in sig) this weekend and i have a room that is about 16' long and 10' wide. tv is mounted to the wall on on the wide side so i sit about 8 or 9 feet from the tv. my problem i sit against the wall so to pull off a 7.1 is going to be tricky for placement. any recomendations on placement or ideas?



here are some pix of my living room before starting this project:

main wall with tv


across from the tv(now is a couch - chairs are gone)


this is looking into the room from my fireplace room

[kareface]

If your room is rectangular it's not a good idea to place your TV on the wider pair of the 4 walls. If your listening position is right against the back wall I heavily suggest not bothering with the rear 2 speakers. They'll sound very poor from that position and you'll be sucking power away from the other speakers to power them. On the whole you'll be much better off just using 5.1 in my opinion. There isn't a lot of 7.1 content out there anyways. As for positioning, I always suggest the same process. Start with placing your front right and left speakers in a symmetrical point near the front wall with their distance from each other equal to the distance you sit from the speakers. Form an equilateral triangle with the speakers and your primary listening position. At this point you should keep your speakers perfectly straight. Ideally you want the speakers pulled away from the front wall at least a couple feet, and ideally away from the side walls by a different distance (greater or lesser) then the the distance from the front wall (there is a reason for this).

Once there put on some 2 channel music (only use your right and left for now) and listing from the primary listening position. There are several key elements you are listening for, if the music sounds to bass heavy, imagine producing a lower tone with your throat then pulling a bowl towards your face you can hear how the bass sounds louder but boomy. This means your speakers are too close to a side wall or front wall. If you hear a left and right, but there seems to be a gap in sound in the sound in the center of the room, you have your front speakers too far apart. If you hear a lot of sound coming from the center but it's hard to hear right from left then you have them too close together. Spend a while positioning the speakers, ideally keeping them symmetrical in the room. Moving them closer to you, different positioning from the walls, from each other. If you find a position you like them in, you can mark it with tape and keep testing to see if you prefer any other positions better. Once you've found your ideal position, once again run the test, but this time you'll want to toe-in the speakers a little each time to see if that helps the imaging of the speakers. Once you find the toe-in your fronts are set.

The center channel and surrounds should be places if possible the same distance from you that your fronts are. This isn't always possible, but when possible it's a good idea. With all of the speakers it's a good idea to play around with placement to see if any adjustments make it sound better to you. Each room is different, no guide can no for sure what sound will behave like in your room. For surrounds you can set the receiver to all channel stereo and unplug your fronts to test them out. The subwoofer can be tricky, I heavily suggest the subwoofer crawl to find potential places to put the sub. More info can be found here with very clear examples of what to do:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/subwoofercrawl.html

Ideally you don't want the sub too close to any walls, you can have it near a corner, but keep it at least a couple feet from the back and a foot from the side. Again, this will be room and subject dependent. You have to strike a balance that you enjoy. It might be something that takes months to prefect, or you might fall in love right away. Don't be afraid to move your speakers around and test them in their new position. Good luck.

[fastfoci]

i cant move the tv so im stuck with it where it is. this sounds like its going to be tricky to do that.hmmmm....

is it against the surround law lol to place your rears and sides up high and aim down?

[kareface]

Originally Posted by fastfoci

i cant move the tv so im stuck with it where it is. this sounds like its going to be tricky to do that.hmmmm....

is it against the surround law lol to place your rears and sides up high and aim down?

It will sound bad, but there isn't laws when it comes to preference. I really don't think you'll see enough benefit from the rears to have them. Keep the surround speakers tho, you should still be able to place them.

[fastfoci]

i can place them in a "L" meaning 1 in the corner on a bracket facing forward and the other one on the other wall facing in both at ear level.

[Steve]

I'm also in a room where the seating position is up against the back wall so I didn't even mess with trying to set up a 7.1 system. I agree with kareface that 5.1 is going to be your best option. Forget about surround backs, and place your surrounds on the sides up 2' or so above ear level. Don't worry about pointing them down.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by fastfoci

i can place them in a "L" meaning 1 in the corner on a bracket facing forward and the other one on the other wall facing in both at ear level.

Ideally you want the surround speakers above ear level like Steve suggested. I can't quite imagine what you are trying to describe so it's difficult for me to comment on it. Something alone the these likes is what I'm suggesting for the surrounds:



Keep in minds the mains and sub in that image are likely placed poorly, lol. this is just to give you an idea of surround placement.

[fastfoci]

Originally Posted by Steve

I'm also in a room where the seating position is up against the back wall so I didn't even mess with trying to set up a 7.1 system. I agree with kareface that 5.1 is going to be your best option. Forget about surround backs, and place your surrounds on the sides up 2' or so above ear level. Don't worry about pointing them down.

so i wont miss any sound by doing this? the brackets i have alow them to swivel around side to side/up and down.

[fastfoci]

Originally Posted by kareface

Ideally you want the surround speakers above ear level like Steve suggested. I can't quite imagine what you are trying to describe so it's difficult for me to comment on it. Something alone the these likes is what I'm suggesting for the surrounds:



Keep in minds the mains and sub in that image are likely placed poorly, lol. this is just to give you an idea of surround placement.

thats exactly what i have. so i want to point the rears towards the couch facing in and about 2 feet above sitting height?

[Steve]

Fastfoci, I suggest you check out the speaker setup guides from Dolby and THX. You'll probably find them helpful.

Dolby

THX

[kareface]

Originally Posted by fastfoci

thats exactly what i have. so i want to point the rears towards the couch facing in and about 2 feet above sitting height?

Yes, you shouldn't have to angle them down, but if you want to test it out you're welcome to. They are they mostly to provide ambient sound effects, so you don't need a 'direct' sound from them. But again, it's your tastes, if you prefer them 3" from your face then do it, lol.

[fastfoci]

lol i get what your saying. untill i posted here i always thought rears go at ear level. im glad i know not to do that now so thank you all.

what i might try is putting my 2 tsi200's on the wall behind me 2 feet above sitting height and face forward then put my 2 tsi100's 2 feet above sitting height on the walls next to the couch aiming 90* left and right. if i dont hear any difference or it distorts the sound in anyway then ill just go with the 5.1 set up. i cant return the 2 speakers cause i bought them used so i might as well try them.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by fastfoci

lol i get what your saying. untill i posted here i always thought rears go at ear level. im glad i know not to do that now so thank you all.

what i might try is putting my 2 tsi200's on the wall behind me 2 feet above sitting height and face forward then put my 2 tsi100's 2 feet above sitting height on the walls next to the couch aiming 90* left and right. if i dont hear any difference or it distorts the sound in anyway then ill just go with the 5.1 set up. i cant return the 2 speakers cause i bought them used so i might as well try them.

That's fine. I think it's better for people to test out every reasonable possibility. Even if what people suggest is analytically sound, there is no accounting for taste. If you have them, give them a try. If you don't feel they are adding much to the overall experience I would suggest selling them sooner rather then later. You'll gain more headroom in your amp for the other speakers and get a little money that could be better spent on other goodies that would have much greater overall effect on the quality of the sound in the room.

[Fors*]

I went to a single bipole rear channel for a 6 speaker set-up from 7 becuase of the limited width of space I have behind me for 2 rears speakers. Albeit, I raised it by 1 1/2 feet and added a single bipole behind me, it is still not located as well as I would like (too close behind me). However, the sound field it projects is better balanced and has helped to open a more enveloping sound than I had with the 2 poorly placed monopoles (now serving side surround duty, and their location is still not the best either.) You have to work with your room's limitations.....but sometimes less is more.....

[fastfoci]

thanx guys. ill post pix after with report. im way over budget on this project sadly so my next problem is wiring them with the correct gauge wire and cost to do so.

[kareface]

Originally Posted by fastfoci

thanx guys. ill post pix after with report. im way over budget on this project sadly so my next problem is wiring them with the correct gauge wire and cost to do so.

Monoprice is your friend.

[fastfoci]

OK GUYS.....new question
ok i read up on here how to "hide" speakers wires in walls BUT i do not understand how you run the rear surround speaker wires all the way to the basement. i see alot of guys run them through the wall down to the bottom before the molding then out but i need to hide that as well and my rear wall is open so you will see the wires coming out the bottom then into the floor.

any links, ideas, or how i can do this?

[fastfoci]

bump

anyone?