Please suggest frequency settings for new system (Onkyo 607+Polk Audio Speakers)

[yophoto91]

Hi all,

I just setup my new home theater system and would appreciate any suggestions for adjusting the frequencies. I did the Audyssey microphone calibration setup on the Onkyo SR607 receiver as directed and it came up with these numbers:

-Polk Monitor 60s (fronts): 8ft distance, 80 Hz, -11dB
-Polk CS2 Center: 8ft distance, 40 Hz, -12dB
-Polk Monitor 30s (rears): 4ft distance, 70 Hz, -11dB
-Polk PSW10 Subwoofer: 13 ft distance, -6db, (in the receiver's menu, the LFE was set to the default: 100 Hz).

Couple of questions....why did Audyssey set the volume of my all the speakers/sub very low? Is it okay to set them all to or around 0 dB so I don't have to crank up the volume to compensate? Secondly, I have no idea what I should do with the frequencies on the speakers and the sub. I remember reading that for the subwoofer in particular you should adjust the crossover in the receiver's menu, but would do I set it to on the actual sub itself? If it matters, my room is very small (only 12' x 12') and the flooring is hardwood.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

Take care,

Mark

[Big Daddy]

These are the frequency responses of your speakers:
Monitor 60: 48Hz - 24kHz, -3dB
Monitor 30: 63Hz - 24kHz, -3dB
CS2: 60Hz - 24kHz, -3dB

Something is really not right with your settings. Do the following:

• On the back of the sub, turn the crossover frequency all the way up to its maximum point.
• On the back of the sub, turn the level to 65%.
• In the receiver's menu, set all speakers to SMALL.
• In the receiver's menu, set the high pass filter (HPF) of the Monitor 60s to 60Hz.
• In the receiver's menu, set the high pass filter (HPF) of the Monitor 30s to 80Hz.
• In the receiver's menu, set the high pass filter of CS2 to 70Hz or 80Hz.
• In the receiver's menu, set the low pass filter (LPF) of the subwoofer to 120Hz.
• Run the Audyssey calibration program again. In most cases, Audyssey works best when you calibrate your audio for multiple listening positions.
• After the calibration is done, you can adjust the settings slightly according to your taste.

[yophoto91]

Thank you for the information, Big Daddy! If you don't mind, I have one more question for you, or for anyone else who may know. If there is only 1 seating position in my room should I ignore Audyssey's direction to move the microphone to the left and right and just leave it centered for all 3 sound tests?

Thank you again.

Mark

[Kirk Out]

im in the same boat i have a 606 with polk 50's in the front with cs2
and polk t100s for surround but no sub and after running the mic set up i get these low numbers also after perfroming the test a few times SAME THING,i am new to this and would love to be able to set it manually but dont know how ...ANY TIPS

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by cj19791979

im in the same boat i have a 606 with polk 50's in the front with cs2
and polk t100s for surround but no sub and after running the mic set up i get these low numbers also after perfroming the test a few times SAME THING,i am new to this and would love to be able to set it manually but dont know how ...ANY TIPS

It should work the same way as Big Daddy suggested above for the 607 and re-run Audyssey. Afterwards, almost all Onkyo's have the same menu, so if you follow Big Daddy's advice you should be in good shape. IMO, because you do not have a sub, I would make the setting for your front speakers "LARGE". By doing this, you should be able to get some better bass response coming from your 50's to make up for the lack of a sub.

A good general rule of thumb after setting your speakers to "small" in the Onkyo menu (and again this is assuming you set the fronts to "LARGE") is to then set your hz levels to 80hz for your center and surrounds (again, you won't be able to set the hz levels for your fronts, as you have them as "LARGE."), and of course, there would be no sub. If you do set your fronts to "small" instead of "LARGE", with your range for the 50's being 42hz - 25kHz, setting them to 60hz would probably be your best bet. Usually I think Audyssey sets the db levels low, so I would slightly tweak them to what sounds good to your ears (and of course the point is mute for the sub.)

[StimpsonJCat]

This is a great Audyssey setup guide.

You should should take all of the measurements (3,6,or 8 depending on which version you have). Do NOT leave it in the same spot.

It is best to have the mic on a tripod. If you don't have a tripod then have it proped up on something, but you should not be near it when you take the measurements. You should move anything blocking a direct path from the speaker to the mic. You should also make sure your measuring positions are not outside any of the speakers. Just take the primary spot measure the first one from there. Then move to the right 2 feet (if this is within the spread of the speakers) and then move it 2 feet from the first position to the left for the third measurement. (if you have more than 3 look at the guide I linked earlier for a diagram for the measuring positions). Also, make sure the mic is pointed up and somewhere near your listening position's ear level.

Before running Audyssey I would have the sub phase set to 0 and the gain half-way. Also move the crossover dial (if there is one) all the way up or off if possible.

If your speakers end up with a level close to -12 then they are either highly effecient (combined with a small room) or something went wrong in the setup.

Can you draw a diagram of your setup (and mic positions?).

I would re-run Audyssey with all three mic positions.

The distances should be close. The subwoofer's might be set to a longer distance than it really is, but this is ok because it takes into account the time/phase issues of low frequencies. If it is shorter than the actual distance there may be a problem.

For the cross overs keep in mind Audyssey does not set them. Your AVR will do this and feel free to change them after running Audyssey. You can also change the speaker levels.

You can go in a change SMALL/LARGE, cross overs, levels after you are done. There is a real problem if your levels are close or at -12 becuase the EQ my be completely off because the levels are at it's lowest level (-12).

Big Daddy's cross over settings are fine, btw. You will have to set all of this after Audyssey runs because the AVR will change them during the calibration.

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by cj19791979

im in the same boat i have a 606 with polk 50's in the front with cs2
and polk t100s for surround but no sub and after running the mic set up i get these low numbers also after perfroming the test a few times SAME THING,i am new to this and would love to be able to set it manually but dont know how ...ANY TIPS

There is no way to manually set Audyssey. You can turn it off and just have level matched speakers, but you lose the EQing. I can copy the Audyssey EQ curve into a manual curve on my Denon 1909, but I still lose Audyssey's EQ if I do this. Try to look through my earlier post and see if you are doing something wrong in the setup of the calibration. Also, look through the Audyssey setup thread because it will go into much more detail of each step.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

[yophoto91]

Thank you for the information, StimpsonJCat. When I was performing the test I was very precise about getting everything correct. The microphone was mounted on a tripod at ear height and I made sure the different listening positions (there were 3: center, right, and left) were equidistant and there was nothing in the way of the speakers. I performed Audyssey twice and got the same results. Since then I have made a few minor adjustments with the speaker's positions and I will try out your suggestions and repeat the test. Attached are a few pictures. The room size is 11' x 12'. The microphone was placed right where that chair is, in the middle (on a tripod). The right and left positions were about 15 inches from the side of the chair.

Thanks again for your help.

Mark

EDIT: Also, I have not found an option to change the speakers to "Small" or "Large". Has this option been omitted from the new 607?

[StimpsonJCat]

I think in your case (and maybe both) the room has too much gain for the Audyssey chirps. Some have suggested a workaround by using an in line dB attenuator for the mic. I don't know if anyone has actually tried this or where you would get a attenuator for the mic. I've seen in-line RCA attenuators at parts express. The room is very small and the hardwood floors are not helping the situation. Have you thought about an area rug? I think mine helps with the sound in my room.

Your AVR may call it Full Band (LARGE)

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by yophoto91

EDIT: Also, I have not found an option to change the speakers to "Small" or "Large". Has this option been omitted from the new 607?

Onkyo will call it Full Band, which is considered "LARGE". Anything other than Full Band will be considered "small". My humble apology for leaving this info out in my previous post, as I'm sure it confused you.

[yophoto91]

StimpsonJCat, thank you for the information. I’m not sure if an area rug will help that much and I also have severe allergies so I would like to avoid that if possible.

Also, I’m trying to better understand how Audyssey works. For a while I just assumed the Audyssey EQ was based on these settings: dB level, speaker distance, and frequency which it gives you after the calibration test. Would it be correct to say, that this EQ runs independently of the aforementioned settings? Also, what would happen if I make a significant change to the dB level AFTER completing the Audyssey calibration? Essentially, I’m wondering if I should just leave the dB levels for the speakers at or around their defaults and just crank up the volume to compensate or if I should set them all to 0 dB and then adjust them to my liking. I’m guessing if I did that, however, the EQ would be negatively affected.

Sorry for all the questions...I’m trying to wrap my mind around all this.

Forsberg21, thank you for the information. No need to apologize. Trust me, I was already confused to begin with.

Take care,

Mark

[StimpsonJCat]

The crossovers, levels, and LARGE/SMALL settings are independent of the Audyssey EQ. You can change them at will after running the calibration.

From batpig's FAQ:

Q. What is Audyssey MultEQ?

A. Audyssey MultEQ is a powerful auto-setup and room calibration program which applies frequency correction to your speakers in an effort to compensate for any acoustical problems inherent to your room.

His website may help answer some questions (even though it is mostly a Denon guide)

[StimpsonJCat]

Originally Posted by yophoto91

Would it be correct to say, that this EQ runs independently of the aforementioned settings?

Yes, those settings are actually set by the AVR during the calibration, but are independent of Audyssey. Settings before the calibration don't matter because they will be changed during it anyways. Changing the speaker levels will not change anything in Audyssey. But if your levels are -12 then you won't be sure the EQ is really working. This is because if it is truely within Audyssey's range of adjustment (which actually goes to -20 if I remember correctly - the AVR sets the -12 limit on the user adjustment) then you are ok. But if it outside that then the EQ will not be working correctly. Make sense?

[Kirk Out]

thanks so much for the advice it really helps.... i ran audyssey again it has the fronts fullband also the center and the rears to 60hz. should i switch the center to 80hz or leave it fullband since i dont have a sub and switch the rears to 80 also....also should the rears match the fronts in db or should they be lower and if so how much lower thanks

[Twitch9]

The only thing i let the audyssey set up when doing the auto calibration is the EQ the room to flat, other than that i would recommend getting SPL meter and doing the rest of the settings manually, you will always get better sound when manually adjusting the distance and levels on the receiver using the proper tools and a bit of research on how to do it. Plus it's so much more rewarding when you get the sound just the way you want it. Your ears will always here something different than the mic you use to do the auto calibration.

[Kirk Out]

what are the benfits or cons between setting my center(cs2) from full band to 80hz can someone answer thanks

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by cj19791979

what are the benfits or cons between setting my center(cs2) from full band to 80hz can someone answer thanks

There is noting magic about 80Hz. The frequency response of CS2 is (60Hz - 24kHz, -3dB). It means the lowest your center speaker can go is 60Hz. If you set this speaker to full band, it means that sound frequencies below 60Hz will go to this speaker. You may get muddy and not very good sound.

Low pass filters, high pass filters, and crossovers do not have a precise cutoff point. They have a slope and gradually cut the frequency below or above the cutoff point. It is always a good idea to set the high pass filter of the speaker about 10Hz to 15Hz above its low frequency extension.

For CS2, 60Hz + 10Hz = 70Hz

The lowest you should set the high pass filter of CS2 is 70Hz. Unfortunately, many receivers jump from 60Hz to 80Hz and do not have a 70Hz setting. Therefore, it is a good isea to set the high pass filter of CS2 to 80Hz.

[Kirk Out]

thanks big daddy u da man for the center should i keep the -db or move it to +db's will i lose out on detail if you can please explain

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by cj19791979

thanks big daddy u da man for the center should i keep the -db or move it to +db's will i lose out on detail if you can please explain

Again, there is nothing magic about +dB or -dB. It all depends, on your room, your listening position in the room, your speaker's sensitivity, your speaker's position relative to other speakers, your receiver, and room acoustics. The idea is to make sure that the sound level from each speaker to your ears are approximately the same. Your exact speaker in my room may have a completely different dB level beacause of the factors mentioned above.

Most sound engineers make the center channel level too low and the explosions too loud. If you increase the level of the center speaker a few dB's, it will help you understand the dialog better. However, if you raise it too much, it will make your front sound stage a bit unbalanced, particularly if you are listening to multi-channel music such as SACD/DVD-A or Blu concerts. You may want to raise the level up for some movies and lower it for other movies and music.