Internal Vs. External HD Audio Decoding

[Kayne314]

I'm curious to know If I'm the only one who's noticed this.

As there are very few Blu-Ray players on the market that can Bitstream the HD audio to an external HD receiver like the Onkyo 605, 705, 805, ect... Most people are using the Linear PCM setting on their players, and running on Multichannel audio. There is no debating that listening to lossless audio this way is unbelievable.

However, I've noticed since upgrading my Blu-Ray player from the PS3 to the Panasonic DMP-BD30, (that has NO internal decoding and only sends lossless audio through bitstream via HDMI to my Onkyo 705 receiver.) I have noticed yet again an improvement in my audio.

I had to flip back and forth between the PS3 and the BD30 a few times before I could believe the difference. I was told there should be no difference, between the two audio decodes, (internal vs. external) but clearly, when the little DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD icons light up on my receiver I get an improvement in vocal clarity, and surround separation.

Has anyone else noticed this? Or am I in the minority here?

[ThaBigDxIAx]

i second your observation. I have the onko 805 and the true hd sound is phenomenal. Bitstreaming is the way to go!

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by ThaBigDxIAx

i second your observation. I have the onko 805 and the true hd sound is phenomenal. Bitstreaming is the way to go!

eh...PS3 as your Bluray player? ...cannot bitstream Dolby TrueHD.

[DefTechPioElite]

Yeah, that's what your receiver is meant to do soooo, external decoding always sounds better. Especially if it's a high-end receiver.

[quetzalcoatl]

Kayne314
Yes you are in the minority here but the numbers are growing. And the lowdest group is also the biggest and that is the owners of the PS3. And they take real offense to being told there is something out there that can do things better than their PS3.
I agree with you but be ready for the nay sayers.
Since in theory they should be the same but in practical application it is not the case.

[Kayne314]

I really do love the PS3, but until updates come along that allow for bitstreaming of all audio codex's in a lossless format, The BD30 will be my first recommendation to anyone thinking about entering the Blu-Ray camp.

The BD30 has limitations too, It does NO internal decoding, so if you have an older or previous gen receiver, then it is probably not the player for everybody.

What blows me away is the real difference I've experienced with the receiver doing the audio decoding. My only experience has been with Onkyo however, and I'm curious to know about other receivers, and if the difference is as big as I've experienced.

[fattyslimslim]

I am not going to say the PS3 is the best BD player out there and there is nothing better....but until the necessary countless firmware update threads disappear, just to play the latest BDs, I can't justify spending $500 on something that only plays movies...

It seems like there is no standalone out there that can play every disc without some sort of firmware update...then the next wave of BDs come out in three weeks and thousands of people have problems again until another firmware update is released. I like to play my movies the day I get them....and if a firmware update is needed, I like to get it over ethernet, not waste my time burning discs I will never use again.

And the less than 15 second load time doesn't hurt either....

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by fattyslimslim

I am not going to say the PS3 is the best BD player out there and there is nothing better....but until the necessary countless firmware update threads disappear, just to play the latest BDs, I can't justify spending $500 on something that only plays movies...

It seems like there is no standalone out there that can play every disc without some sort of firmware update...then the next wave of BDs come out in three weeks and thousands of people have problems again until another firmware update is released. I like to play my movies the day I get them....and if a firmware update is needed, I like to get it over ethernet, not waste my time burning discs I will never use again.

And the less than 15 second load time doesn't hurt either....

So try not updating your FW on the PS3 and see if it can play every movie you throw at it. And you do know that there are standalones with ethernet ports as well right? And I have been able to play every movie I have bought on day one with my main players except one. And it plays now with a update released the week of Christmas. And I do buy most of my movies on release day.

But the FW updates will not disappear either. And that is for the PS3 as well.

[fattyslimslim]

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl

So try not updating your FW on the PS3 and see if it can play every movie you throw at it. And you do know that there are standalones with ethernet ports as well right? And I have been able to play every movie I have bought on day one with my main players except one. And it plays now with a update released the week of Christmas. And I do buy most of my movies on release day.

But the FW updates will not disappear either. And that is for the PS3 as well.

Of course there are standalones with ethernet ports, but the reason I posted this was the OP decided the BD30 should be the first recommendation to anyone looking to enter the BD camp. Well, the BD30 doesn't have one, one of the major comparisons between HD DVD and BD so right there they are a step behind even HD DVD.

And while it would certainly be a better recommendation than a HD DVD player, this machine will do the new user no good if their receiver doesn't decode DTS-MA. In fact, this will be a worse choice since it doesn't decode even True HD like the PS3.

I am still being hopeful for the ps3 to decode it, then what will you SA lovers have to compare? IR ports?

I'm not trying to be a naysayer, I 'm just a pretty kickass guy.
The point I am trying to make is that because it sounds terrific in your setup, and you are happy with it doesn't mean it will be the best solution for everyone. It might be best to step back and look at their needs. They might not need a ps3. Maybe they can't afford a BD30. I could probably find one guy here that is still happy with his BDP1000.

[Kayne314]

All good points!

I agree. The lack of an Ethernet port almost got me to buy the Samsung BP1400, also a terrific machine. ( Is there really a bad Blu-Ray Player?)

Yup. As in my previous posts I did allude to the fact that the BD30 has it's share of problems, and isn't for everybody. I do, however think that it is the best unit for purely playing movies. I agree the firmware update thing could be a hassle for some people.

I'll clairify my statement, that I'll only recommend this player for people that have, or are looking to have a set-up that has full HD decoding.

All that being said, I'd still like to hear from others out there that are making use of the external HD audio decoding, and hear if they have heard a difference in their audio when switching between internal and external decodes.

It really could be all in my head. I am hearing an improvement, but maybe only a 25% clarification over internal/player decoding. My curiosity remains as to whether such an improvement has been heard by others, and to what degree they would rate the change.

Also, admitting to myself that the Onkyo receiver I have is essentially entry level HD Audio, I'd love to hear from a few real audiophiles about their Harmon Carden, or Yamaha, or whatever High-end HD Receiver they have, and how they feel about their decoding. Is it a 50% improvement? 100%? No change? Poorer?

I'm trying to gauge my experience against others with the same kind of equipment. As a sales-guy who sells HD equipment, I not only want the best for myself, I want to be able to sell to my customers the best thing for them. HD audio is an extremely new thing. I guess I'm trying to build a baseline for myself so I can talk intelligently about this stuff in the future.

Thanks again guys!

[fattyslimslim]

Originally Posted by Kayne314

All good points!

I agree. The lack of an Ethernet port almost got me to buy the Samsung BP1400, also a terrific machine. ( Is there really a bad Blu-Ray Player?)

Yup. As in my previous posts I did allude to the fact that the BD30 has it's share of problems, and isn't for everybody. I do, however think that it is the best unit for purely playing movies. I agree the firmware update thing could be a hassle for some people.

I'll clairify my statement, that I'll only recommend this player for people that have, or are looking to have a set-up that has full HD decoding.

All that being said, I'd still like to hear from others out there that are making use of the external HD audio decoding, and hear if they have heard a difference in their audio when switching between internal and external decodes.

It really could be all in my head. I am hearing an improvement, but maybe only a 25% clarification over internal/player decoding. My curiosity remains as to whether such an improvement has been heard by others, and to what degree they would rate the change.

Also, admitting to myself that the Onkyo receiver I have is essentially entry level HD Audio, I'd love to hear from a few real audiophiles about their Harmon Carden, or Yamaha, or whatever High-end HD Receiver they have, and how they feel about their decoding. Is it a 50% improvement? 100%? No change? Poorer?

I'm trying to gauge my experience against others with the same kind of equipment. As a sales-guy who sells HD equipment, I not only want the best for myself, I want to be able to sell to my customers the best thing for them. HD audio is an extremely new thing. I guess I'm trying to build a baseline for myself so I can talk intelligently about this stuff in the future.

Thanks again guys!

Ok, I tell ya what...since I am a little low on the fundage right now, and I have a 605 that can decode the HD audio too, lemme borrow your BD30 and I will give you an honest opinion on whether I think it makes an improvement letting the receiver decode the audio...I just wish the PS3 could pass it. I just want my DTS-MA!!!

So it poses a good question for me...should I continue to add to my blu count this week with the BOGO or save up for a BD30/BP1400?

Glad to hear you are now enjoying the best blu can bring...but doesn't it make you a little sad? Now you aren't missing out on anything blu has to offer anymore....nothing to look forward to

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by fattyslimslim

I'm not trying to be a naysayer, I 'm just a pretty kickass guy.

I just had to LOL at that . . . Who talks about themselves like that on an internet forum?


Just to add my .02 . . . when Blu-ray player specs are finalized and the prices come down on the Denon/Pioneer Elite players, I'll definitely be picking up a stand alone player, as I notice a difference with even standard DTS and Dolby Digital decoded by my receiver compared to decoding by the PS3. For right now though, I just can't justify the cost of a standalone player when there are so many issues with availability of firmware updates, lack of final profile specs (although, admittedly, this would get used VERY little, if at all, but I want it if it's available), etc. I don't want to be stuck with a movie on release day that I can't watch. I am encouraged as of late though, as it seems that the number of "X movie won't play on X player" threads has decreased greatly.

While I am a big advocate of the PS3, I do admit that its one large fault is in its handling of audio. But, I think it's unrealistic to expect it to decode audio as well as a dedicated receiver, and I'm ok with that for awhile. I wish they'd hurry up with DTS-MA decoding though.