Bitstream vs internal decoding

[elwaylite]

When it comes to audio, im lost. I bought my Sony rcvr recently (chose it because it was in my range and had 3 hdmi inputs) and it does not do any of the HD formats, nor do I care.

What I don understand is why people dump on certain players for their audio properties.

Case in point, the BD30 does not do internal decoding of the HD formats. Whats the difference of internal decoding as opposed to letting a TRUEHD rcvr handle the bitstream.

I thought sending bitstream directly to the rcvr and letting it do the work was the best way. Anyone shed some light on this.

[Edh63]

There is much info on this in other threads. You may want to float a bit on the forums and read others posts about this. There are some great explanations as to why one is "better" over the other.

The overarching opinion, in my opinion, is that you really want to try to experience the movie on your system the way the movie was produced in its originality. Some systems out there, receivers, take advantage of much of this technology and decode the information ingrained on Blu-Ray disks so you can take advantage of that experience.

However, with that said, older systems that cannot decode all the newer information still have the capability to bitstream via optical and get great sound. Because you can't take advantage of all the wonders of proper decoding for Blu-Ray doesn't mean that you will experience poor sound quality. It just means that you will not experience everything on the disk available, which can mean experiencing less audio quality.

Your "experience" will be based largely on a percentage of subjectivity and that is about meeting certain personal standards and needs. You can lose yourself in forums like these trying to "agree" with every opinion out there. It will drive you nuts. The thing you have to discern is what information will apply to your personal situation. The one thing this forum does do is open the door and allow people with lesser knowledge about these kinds of things look into a deeper perspective of options, solutions and resolve.

I thoroughly enjoy this place and have learned a wealth of knowledge about my own system, and newer systems that I may be interested in down the line.

[elwaylite]

Thanks, Ill look around more.

What always happens to me is people cant understand why I dont care about HD Audio formats or 1.1 profile perks at this point in my life.

[nhaase]

Internal decoding, elway, allows for one to not need a receiver that can decode that format. So if a person does not have a receiver that can decode DTSMA or DTHD, then they need the player to be able to do this. My receiver does not do DTSMA, so I need a player that can decode internally (I have the PS3 now, waiting for that update).

[Edh63]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Thanks, Ill look around more.

What always happens to me is people cant understand why I dont care about HD Audio formats or 1.1 profile perks at this point in my life.

I am very much the same when it comes to this. I am more concerned about PQ than the sound. My system does not take advantage of everything either when it comes to sound, but it does perform nicely and I am very content and satisfied.

One thing we have to be careful in our quest to achieve "the best" audio or picture is to allow others to convince you that you cannot be happy with what you have. This is obviously personal and "happy" is something "you" own. Are there better options and opportunity ahead of us? Absolutely. But my happiness won't rely on someone else's opinion of what they think I should have in my home. Respecting an opinion and succumbing to one's opinion are two different things. Some of us just get a little jived when we think that we're not being heard.

[Blu-Raider]

Personally, I don't mind posters starting new threads on complex subjects such as this. It's hard to wade through 5000 replies when you just want to ask a simple question. I usually hear a different pov.

[ryoohki]

The BD30 decode nothing but DD and DTS (Normal DVD ONE) and when you select TrueHD or DTS HD, you only get the Normal DVD DD and DTS track that are inside those files.

BUT the BD30 send bitstream of all the audio to a compatible HDMI 1.3a receiver.

Most if not a 2008 BluRay player will send the signal Bitstream to Receiver. Some more rare and Pricier will decode everything. It's the case of the DENON 3800CI (1999$) and the Panasonic BD50 (699-799).

I myself voted to upgrade the Receiver as i would be able to always buy the cheapest BR player after that because 'All decoding Player' will always cost Primo Money over bitstream one

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by nhaase

Internal decoding, elway, allows for one to not need a receiver that can decode that format. So if a person does not have a receiver that can decode DTSMA or DTHD, then they need the player to be able to do this. My receiver does not do DTSMA, so I need a player that can decode internally (I have the PS3 now, waiting for that update).

I guess what I dont understand is, if you decode DTSMA internally and send it to a rcvr that cant do DTSMA, whats the benefit? I think thats were Im lost.

I assumed that you would want the player to send bitstream to you rcvr and let it do the work. Just buy a DTSMA rcvr if you want the features.

I agree with the above post, I think cost is more important.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I guess what I dont understand is, if you decode DTSMA internally and send it to a rcvr that cant do DTSMA, whats the benefit? I think thats were Im lost.

I assumed that you would want the player to send bitstream to you rcvr and let it do the work. Just buy a DTSMA rcvr if you want the features.

I've been carefully reading an ongoing discussion on that other forum about this very subject. What I'm coming to believe is that, if one has a sufficiently high-quality receiver, the D/A converters in the receiver will be significantly better than those typically used in the player, thus providing improved audio quality. As an audiophile, this makes perfect sense to me and, indeed, I have a very high quality outboard tube D/A hooked up to my CD transport for this very reason.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I guess what I dont understand is, if you decode DTSMA internally and send it to a rcvr that cant do DTSMA, whats the benefit? I think thats were Im lost.

I assumed that you would want the player to send bitstream to you rcvr and let it do the work. Just buy a DTSMA rcvr if you want the features.

I agree with the above post, I think cost is more important.

There's can be some issues. Most of witch rely to PCM LFE level. If you amp doesn't do LFE boost on PCM Multich, you'll get weak LFE from Decoded TrueHD and DTSHD in PCM format, except if the player does that internally but those are quite rare. Most new receiver have this option (like my 3808 for example)...

[RUR]

Originally Posted by ryoohki

There's can be some issues. Most of witch rely to PCM LFE level. If you amp doesn't do LFE boost on PCM Multich, you'll get weak LFE from Decoded TrueHD and DTSHD in PCM format, except if the player does that internally but those are quite rare. Most new receiver have this option (like my 3808 for example)...

An absolutely fantastic thread on this, though it requires careful reading: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

[ryoohki]

It's not complicated imho

PCM -- Bass Management --- PCM
DTS HD ---- BITSTREAM ---- DTS HD
DD TrueHD ----- BITSTREAM ---- DDTrueHD

That's what a BD Player look like with bitstream...

All the decoding and processing and bass management is done by the receiver.

Now a Decoding player

PCM -- Bass Management -- PCM
DTS HD --- DECODING -- BASS Management -- PCM
DD TrueHD ----- Decoding -- Bass Management -- PCM

[elwaylite]

So, as with buying a standalone which is specifically designed for video, its best(when you get into the HD audio dept) to buy a player that bitstreams and let the high end audio rcvr do the work?

I dont really see why not decoding DTSMA and DTHD is a big negative. Guess its just like the profile arguments, whatever a HDDVD fanboy feels they can use they will.

Do any of the HDDVD players decode?

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

So, as with buying a standalone which is specifically designed for video, its best(when you get into the HD audio dept) to buy a player that bitstreams and let the high end audio rcvr do the work?

I dont really see why not decoding DTSMA and DTHD is a big negative. Guess its just like the profile arguments, whatever a HDDVD fanboy feels they can use they will.

Do any of the HDDVD players decode?

They dedcoe TrueHD just like quite a few Blu-ray players as well.
But as of right now no player decodes DTS HD MA on either side. As was mentioned there is a Denon coming that will. And it will be the first to do it.

I am in the bitstreaming camp as far as the audio goes. But we will see once the Denon comes out and can decode and uses high quality parts if that sticks.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl

They dedcoe TrueHD just like quite a few Blu-ray players as well.
But as of right now no player decodes DTS HD MA on either side. As was mentioned there is a Denon coming that will. And it will be the first to do it.

I am in the bitstreaming camp as far as the audio goes. But we will see once the Denon comes out and can decode and uses high quality parts if that sticks.

Im currently bitstreaming the DD and DTS to my Sony from the BD30 and am very happy.

I may one day get a higher end audio rcvr, but a 1080p is my next target.

[Papi4baby]

So when the BD50 comes out, i think it will decode internal. The decoding will be sent out as PCM right? So does that mean that i can have the player do the decoding and use analog to my non HDMI reciever and get lossless audio. Or does the reciever also have to support DTS HDMA and DTSHD??


Nevermind, read this and i think if i get the BD50(and if it does internal decoding) i will be able to get lossless with my current reciever.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=17648

[quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by Papi4baby

So when the BD50 comes out, i think it will decode internal. The decoding will be sent out as PCM right? So does that mean that i can have the player do the decoding and use analog to my non HDMI reciever and get lossless audio. Or does the reciever also have to support DTS HDMA and DTSHD??

Yes the reciever would get lossless audio via the analog outs with that unit.

[nhaase]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I guess what I dont understand is, if you decode DTSMA internally and send it to a rcvr that cant do DTSMA, whats the benefit? I think thats were Im lost.

I assumed that you would want the player to send bitstream to you rcvr and let it do the work. Just buy a DTSMA rcvr if you want the features.

I agree with the above post, I think cost is more important.

When the DTSMA is decoded internally, it is sent as a PCM stream to the rcvr, so you get the lossless audio even though your rcvr cannot decode it, so then it does not matter that your rcvr does not have DTSMA decoding. That is to answer your bolded part.

To reply to your 2:13 post:

I dont really see why not decoding DTSMA and DTHD is a big negative. Guess its just like the profile arguments, whatever a HDDVD fanboy feels they can use they will.

My rcvr does not decode DTSMA, so I only have two options:

1. Get a player that decodes it internally (Hoping the PS3 does this), and keep my rcvr, or
2. Get a new rcvr that can decode it and buy a player that bitstreams it (PS3 does not do this now, and most say it cannot, but there are other threads for that discussion)

Now, let's assume that I already have a player that can bitstream DTSMA, when you weigh the two options, it is probably going to be cheaper to do option #1 than to do #2, assuming I go for a quality rcvr. That's why I see a lack of internal decoding as a negative. It's just for me, though. If I had a rcvr that did decode DTSMA, then it's a non-issue, so it's person-specific.

[Porfie]

Originally Posted by nhaase

When the DTSMA is decoded internally, it is sent as a PCM stream to the rcvr, so you get the lossless audio even though your rcvr cannot decode it, so then it does not matter that your rcvr does not have DTSMA decoding. That is to answer your bolded part.

To reply to your 2:13 post:

My rcvr does not decode DTSMA, so I only have two options:

1. Get a player that decodes it internally (Hoping the PS3 does this), and keep my rcvr, or
2. Get a new rcvr that can decode it and buy a player that bitstreams it (PS3 does not do this now, and most say it cannot, but there are other threads for that discussion)

Now, let's assume that I already have a player that can bitstream DTSMA, when you weigh the two options, it is probably going to be cheaper to do option #1 than to do #2, assuming I go for a quality rcvr. That's why I see a lack of internal decoding as a negative. It's just for me, though. If I had a rcvr that did decode DTSMA, then it's a non-issue, so it's person-specific.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. You were cut and dry and thats what I was looking for. So many people just type a book on this subject or their own opinions which confuses the heck out of everyone. I also hope the PS3 gets this update soon!