What's Holding 3D Back? (ARTICLE LINK)

[HDTV1080P]

This was an interesting article to read about 3-D.

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-feature-articles/video-related-articles/whats-holding-3d-back.html

[steve1971]

Good post and interesting article. Sorry to say this but I think the 3-D idea is gonna go the way of HD-DVD: A failure! I believe this due to a couple of things. 1-The Economy. People just dont have the funds anymore to buy brand new equipment and alot of us are happy with our current setup. I know I am. 2-To much to soon. I think the powers that be should have allowed the Blu ray format to grow for a few more years before they introduced the 3-D idea. Blu ray is catching on no doubt but you still have some people hanging on to standard dvd. Get rid of the dvd format first and try to get the Blu ray format into more home's then think of the 3-D idea.

I like Mitsubishi's idea of the black box thing. Instead of replacing my tv I would go for this idea. Just hook up the box via HDMI to my tv and presto I am 3-D compatable!!! I would much rather do that then spend another $1500 or so for yet another tv just so I can get 3-D. Also give me a firmware update for my BDP N460 that allows me to access 3-D content. If they would go the route I just mentioned I would have no problem adopting the 3-D concept. But buying a new tv and Blu ray player fro 3-D is a no go for me because 1- I like my current setup very well and 2- I dont make the kind of money to keep replacing my setup just because something new comes up. This is all just my view and others can do what they like, their choice and their money.

[lDlisturb3d]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Good post and interesting article. Sorry to say this but I think the 3-D idea is gonna go the way of HD-DVD: A failure! I believe this due to a couple of things. 1-The Economy. People just dont have the funds anymore to buy brand new equipment and alot of us are happy with our current setup. I know I am. 2-To much to soon. I think the powers that be should have allowed the Blu ray format to grow for a few more years before they introduced the 3-D idea. Blu ray is catching on no doubt but you still have some people hanging on to standard dvd. Get rid of the dvd format first and try to get the Blu ray format into more home's then think of the 3-D idea.

I like Mitsubishi's idea of the black box thing. Instead of replacing my tv I would go for this idea. Just hook up the box via HDMI to my tv and presto I am 3-D compatable!!! I would much rather do that then spend another $1500 or so for yet another tv just so I can get 3-D. Also give me a firmware update for my BDP N460 that allows me to access 3-D content. If they would go the route I just mentioned I would have no problem adopting the 3-D concept. But buying a new tv and Blu ray player fro 3-D is a no go for me because 1- I like my current setup very well and 2- I dont make the kind of money to keep replacing my setup just because something new comes up. This is all just my view and others can do what they like, their choice and their money.

People i do believe if you own a Samsung Plasma TV your TV is already 3-D capable so whats with all the fuss, hopefully you purschased a PS3 for you blu ray player because if not you will have to get a Blu Ray player that can support 3-D. I love the PS3 all it takes is a Firmware update and now we have 3-D

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by deeman54

People i do believe if you own a Samsung Plasma TV your TV is already 3-D capable so whats with all the fuss, hopefully you purschased a PS3 for you blu ray player because if not you will have to get a Blu Ray player that can support 3-D. I love the PS3 all it takes is a Firmware update and now we have 3-D

Whats with all the fuss? All the fuss is that is if you dont own a compatable 3-D tv you have to go out and buy one that does! It dont matter if the PS3 carries 3-D if your tv is not set up for 3-D. Now if you own a Samsung plasma tv and it is 3-D compatable then I guess your all set.

[Packerfan75]

Q: What's holding 3D back?

A: 3D, because it's just not that good.

[RadThad]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Q: What's holding 3D back?

A: 3D, because it's just not that good.

Pretty much sums up this whole thread.

[typ44q]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Q: What's holding 3D back?

A: 3D, because it's just not that good.

I agree 100%

Most people I have talked to about 3D (many of which are just getting into blu-ray and HD) see 3D as a passing fad and have no interest in getting all new equipment for something that may not exist in a few years.

[qwknuf6]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Q: What's holding 3D back?

A: 3D, because it's just not that good.

And it gives me a headache

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Q: What's holding 3D back?

A: 3D, because it's just not that good.

Bingo!

I've been reserving judgment on this technology and not making any final decisions until I at least saw it with my own eyes. Well, that day came on Saturday at my local Best Buy. They had a Blu-ray 3D demo room setup going, so I had a seat and watched Monsters vs. Aliens 3D for a few minutes. There were parts that were neat, and there was definitely depth to it. When viewing the movie, though, it felt like I was looking into a box that had a three-dimensional scene going on inside it. That is to say: the three-dimensional aspect of the movie wasn't really "immersing" the room with images. To me, it still seemed like the video was confined to the box (the TV). It reminds me of those things you make in grammar school where you have a shoebox and you put a bunch of different things in it to create a scene.

Add to the what I would consider to be "barely neat" video presentation is the fact that I have to wear glasses to experience it, and you've got yourself a losing combination for me personally. I'm all about decking out a home theater with the latest and greatest, but I'm just not feeling the 3D thing as it is now.

It's not about raining on the parades of others who are sold on and love it, nor am I making a claim about its effect on the industry (be it positive or negative); it's just not that cool if you ask me. I would only own a 3D setup if it was given to me; I'd never pay extra for it (as it is now. If it gets better, I'd be more than happy to change my tune).

[mjbethancourt]

If a firmware upgrade will do it for a PS3, then I would imagine that it is just a matter of time before a number of other players do the same (not all, of course, but probably many of them).
Just because something hasn't been officially announced, doesn't mean it never will be. That also holds true for the aforementioned Samsung televisions: customer support said they did not have a firmware upgrade for those televisions, he didn't say they never would.

I disagree with the idea that they need to "more fully establish" blu-ray before they add more features like 3D. From their point of view, they need to continue adding new features exactly for that purpose, to "more fully establish" blu-ray, (which, by the way, has a lot more market presence than some folks here seem to realize). 3D and other new features just help them to stave off the competition for now. I'd like to see blu-ray have a long lifespan, and I don't think that "taking it slowly" is the way to accomplish that, not with the current pace of technological innovation. If they wait for a more serious challenger to blu-ray comes along before adding new features, it will be too late. Consider DVD: if they didn't update to two-layer and anamorphic and upscaling players, etc. then HD-DVD probably would have been rolled out sooner and maybe would have been the immediate successor to DVD (and we would have no blu-ray); instead, DVD remained viable for a few more years, and we were spared from a bad intermediate stage of upgrade.

None of us can see the future, stop beating them over the head on 3D, none of us knows the market any better than those who make their living on it.

[mjbethancourt]

People in the business of selling TVs and media players will always want us to "buy new ones"... that's their sole objective; and, they will always come up with new products and features to pursuade us to "buy new ones". The hypothetical model of "release a product, wait for sales to dry up, and then release the next generation", that is an unworkable model of expansion and contraction, which won't work with the long-term finances of very many customers.

The real issue there is, who do they expect to "buy new ones"? If you think they expect people who just bought a TV to buy a new one, then you would be mistaken. The people they expect to buy new products in the immediate future are those who are currently ripe for an upgrade. If you own an old SD-CRT or even a first-gen HDTV, then a new 3D-ready, HDMI 1.4 compliant LED set would be right up your alley. If you're content with your big Pioneer Kuro, odds are you're not going to be interested in buying a new TV for a while, and in a few years when it is your time for a new set, you will probably be buying something that blows any 2010 TV out of the water.

To the point of the original question of the thread:
Nothing is holding 3D back, it's coming along just fine. 3D products have been out for a while now, and every year they put out newer and better 3D stuff; and I really don't think compatibility is nearly as sticky as it has been blown up to be.

This blast, after mentioning the format wars? Look, you might take some time to match this statement - "...none of us knows the market any better than those who make their living on it..." with the absolute marketing disaster that HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray caused for manufacturers, content providers, and equipment distributors. Nobody knew what they were doing, and it stunted Blu acceptance for nearly two years, even after HD-DVD was dead and buried.

... well, I'm not saying mistakes are never made, what I'm saying is that Monday-morning quarterbacking is cheap, and that those who make their living based on long-term market projections in electronics are more experienced and qualified than any of us critics.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

... well, I'm not saying mistakes are never made, what I'm saying is that Monday-morning quarterbacking is cheap, and that those who make their living based on long-term market projections in electronics are more experienced and qualified than any of us critics.

Well a lot of us critics could see that HD DVD never had a true advantage and the powers that be still forced it to market.

I just don't see a demand for 3D at home. The studios brought 3D back to get us back to the theaters. They should keep it there until is has run its course again.

[Henry T]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Good post and interesting article. Sorry to say this but I think the 3-D idea is gonna go the way of HD-DVD: A failure! I believe this due to a couple of things. 1-The Economy. People just dont have the funds anymore to buy brand new equipment and alot of us are happy with our current setup. I know I am. 2-To much to soon. I think the powers that be should have allowed the Blu ray format to grow for a few more years before they introduced the 3-D idea. Blu ray is catching on no doubt but you still have some people hanging on to standard dvd. Get rid of the dvd format first and try to get the Blu ray format into more home's then think of the 3-D idea.

I like Mitsubishi's idea of the black box thing. Instead of replacing my tv I would go for this idea. Just hook up the box via HDMI to my tv and presto I am 3-D compatible!!! I would much rather do that then spend another $1500 or so for yet another tv just so I can get 3-D. Also give me a firmware update for my BDP N460 that allows me to access 3-D content. If they would go the route I just mentioned I would have no problem adopting the 3-D concept. But buying a new tv and Blu ray player fro 3-D is a no go for me because 1- I like my current setup very well and 2- I don't make the kind of money to keep replacing my setup just because something new comes up. This is all just my view and others can do what they like, their choice and their money.

Agree here. Blu-ray 2d still has a long way to go and is a big jump for most average consumers. And considering a floundering US economy I really think 3d at this time was big marketing mistake. 2-3 years down the road we might be ready for it, at least for a slow adoption.

Again average consumers are just starting to recognize BD as a valued upgrade and considering adopting the format. The manufactures are trying to jamb this stuff down our throats too fast IMO. They may just spook people with these rapid changes into holding tight on purchases cause of uncertainty in the format direction.

[raygendreau]

I agree that the major drawback is the shutter glasses. They are too expensive. A better (cheaper) option for glasses would be the passive polarised glasses which cost abbout $1.50.

The displays will probably cost more. Unfortunately LG is going to intro passive 3D HDTV's in England soon, but there is no mention of them introducing anything other than the active systems in the U.S.

http://www.electronista.com/articles....3d.tv.lineup/

I hope we get some reviews from our members across the pond.

[AaronSCH]

What's holding 3-D back? 3-D ...It is just a fad.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by AaronSCH

What's holding 3-D back? 3-D ...It is just a fad.

Well, people said HD (blu-ray) would never be adopted by the mainstream - soooo.

It's easy to say, it's just a fad - but who thought IPod's would have hookups on every stereo, car, and alarm clock these days.

I think 3D has a chance - but not with the current clunky/overly expensive glasses. Expensive set-up with little to no content = no one is rushing to get this.

I think the clunkiness and price of the glasses will hold this back. What good is having a 3D sports channel if only 2 people at a time can watch it.

I find myself more interested in 3D gaming than movies actually.

[john_1958]

Originally Posted by AaronSCH

What's holding 3-D back? 3-D ...It is just a fad.

nice to have 3d as well as 2d in one set fad i think not

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Manufacturers have been treating 3-D like a free-fire marketing zone. The current mantra is that you need a new television, and a new player, to get the "full 3-D experience". The PS3 compatibility angle still hasn't been fully explained by Sony, leaving people wondering if it will be full 1080p.

The manufacturers rushed this out, and very poorly. Their interest is in trying to reboot the entire market to buy new sets - extremely unlikely. Since broadcasters, interested in streaming media, may use a different standard than hard media like Blu-Ray, the picture is even fuzzier.

Broadcasters don't have skin in the game for 1080p. They have advertisers to please, who don't want to wait until the 71 million people who bought HDTV's in the last four years, toss them out and by new, "compatible" models.

Unless all of the industry groups do something fast - the BDA, manufacturers, broadcasters, and media developers - 3-D is going to be viewed with intense suspicion by the general public for a long time. Suspicion is the rule now, not the exception, and the main enthusiasts for 3-D are those with discretionary income that can manage discarding or "cascading" older equipment to get the newer gear.

Almost all the points you raised are insightful analyses of the situation. I view 3-D with suspicion as a consumer who bought into Blu-ray as soon as it was available. The market has not fully adopted Blu-ray yet and now the display manufacturers want to change up the market. They really should have waited until Blu-ray and HDTV had become more common in the U.S. The cart does not go before the horse.

[liquidice]

a friend of mine who works for a Chicago based engineering firm has some info on the new upgraded 3D tv's. This company is largely engineering the technology used for the newer tv's we'll see on the market. He did tell me that they are also upgrading current tv's, mostly LCD technology sets. He said the only thing needed to take a current LCD and make it ready for 3D is a software upgrade, and an extra IR, which is costly them nearly nothing for the upgrades. He said this is currently being demonstrated in their engineering lab.

With the minimal costs, it would seem silly to rush out and buy a new tv anytime soon.

I personally will not make any movement towards 3D anything for the next couple of years....at least. It's nothing that really excites me at this time, and we all now how prices for these types of new information will drop so drastically after it becomes more widespread among all A/V companies.

[Grif32]

Originally Posted by liquidice

a friend of mine who works for a Chicago based engineering firm has some info on the new upgraded 3D tv's. This company is largely engineering the technology used for the newer tv's we'll see on the market. He did tell me that they are also upgrading current tv's, mostly LCD technology sets. He said the only thing needed to take a current LCD and make it ready for 3D is a software upgrade, and an extra IR, which is costly them nearly nothing for the upgrades. He said this is currently being demonstrated in their engineering lab.

With the minimal costs, it would seem silly to rush out and buy a new tv anytime soon.

I personally will not make any movement towards 3D anything for the next couple of years....at least. It's nothing that really excites me at this time, and we all now how prices for these types of new information will drop so drastically after it becomes more widespread among all A/V companies.

I don't think your friend is correct. But in time we will see.

Quotes found

"none of the TV manufacturers we spoke with said that their current HDTVs can be upgraded to support the new 3D formats. We've heard that slow LCD response times, processing power, new phosphor requirements and an inability to accept the necessary 100Hz input signal (not to be confused with 100Hz and higher display refresh rates) cited as reasons why existing sets are stuck in 2D"

Other's

Myth #6 = All BD players with HDMI 1.3 & BD Live can be upgraded to 3D BD players

FALSE - only the PS3 can be upgraded to play 3D BD's. The PS3 is a software based BD player. It uses the very powerful Cell BE instead of a SoC (System On a Chip) like all other BD players do which are hardware based players. It uses programming that can be updated and upgraded via firmware. Regular BD players can't do this.

Myth #9 = You can upgrade your HDTV to a 3DTV

TRUE & FALSE - 120Hz DLP RPTV's by Mitsubishi and Samsung, that were made as 3D ready, their owners will have the opportunity to purchase later this year, the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 converter box. This is a 3D format converter that will convert 3D BD, SAT and CBL's 3D formats into the 3D format that these DLP HDTV's use, which is Checkerboard LINK , a 3D format that offers half HD resolution per eye instead of full HD resolution per eye, like the brand new FPD's do just being released. The frame /refresh rate will be 60 per eye, 120 total.

Again, active shutter glasses will be needed along with an external transmitter/emitter to sync the glasses to the TV that plugs into the back of the set in a special 3 pin VESA connection. If your set is equipped with a DLP-Link, then no emitter is required but you will need the DLP-Link 3D glasses like the XpanD X102 series.

So what about all the other HDTV's? The ones with 120Hz and 240Hz refresh rates? No - they will not be able to be upgraded to 3DTV's for a number of technical reasons.

And a great thread on it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238377