Theatrical Lossless Digital projection question. - Blu-ray Forum

Dubstar · 03-20-2010, 03:54 AM

I know this isn't technically a home theatre type of question, but an overall 'audio' question. I know that one of the advantages of digital projection is that the audio is uncompressed as compared to 35mm 'digital' lossy sound. What though, is the audio that is outputted to the theatre DP system - Dolby, DTS. SDDS? Can the audio mirror all the extracts of each system: Dolby Digital EX 6.1, DTS 6.1, 8-channel SDDS?

I know that at one point there was mention that a height channel was speculated to be integrated into soundmixes, i.e: directly over the head - guess that never happened. How come 7.1 hasn't made the transition from bluray to the theatrical experience?

srrndhound · 03-20-2010, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstar

I know this isn't technically a home theatre type of question, but an overall 'audio' question. I know that one of the advantages of digital projection is that the audio is uncompressed as compared to 35mm 'digital' lossy sound. What though, is the audio that is outputted to the theatre DP system - Dolby, DTS. SDDS? Can the audio mirror all the extracts of each system: Dolby Digital EX 6.1, DTS 6.1, 8-channel SDDS?

LPCM. That's what uncompressed audio is.

Quote:

I know that at one point there was mention that a height channel was speculated to be integrated into soundmixes, i.e: directly over the head - guess that never happened. How come 7.1 hasn't made the transition from bluray to the theatrical experience?

Just in time:

http://investor.dolby.com/releasedet...leaseID=452342

Dubstar · 03-21-2010, 06:04 PM

well I know that LPCM is 'uncompressed', the question was what's sound we are hearing from the DLP, Sony LCoS systems in the theatre: Dolby, DTS, SDDS, or none of the three - ?

Toy Story 3 in 7.1 in the theatre... awesome! - wonder what theatres in the DC metropolitan area will be upgraded to this configurement. I know that the National Amusement theatres - like Reston where I saw Toy Story 2 was the only theatre at the time to feature that movie in 6.1 Dolby Digital EX sound.

srrndhound · 03-22-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstar

well I know that LPCM is 'uncompressed', the question was what's sound we are hearing from the DLP, Sony LCoS systems in the theatre: Dolby, DTS, SDDS, or none of the three - ?

None. All systems playing digital films use LPCM. It's the DCI system the industry adopted.

Dubstar · 03-22-2010, 05:08 AM

very interesting - apparently a total of 16- channels of sound can be processed - I'm surprised Sony didn't capitalize on this and release it's features out in 8-channel sound (five front/two surround), apparently Dolby beat them to the punch and is implementing 3-channel/4-channel surround, to bring to the masses, what bluray lossless already accomplishes.

RocShemp · 03-22-2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstar

apparently Dolby beat them to the punch and is implementing 3-channel/4-channel surround, to bring to the masses, what bluray lossless already accomplishes.

Except that the 7.1 sound mixes on current BD releases aren't "real" per se. Those are created by matrixing the two surround channels of a standard 5.1 mix in order to create two surround back channels. They then encode the resulting audio as a 7.1 mix.

It's the same process 7.1 receivers carry out via Dolby PLIIx or DTS Neo:6 except done on professional grade equipment.

Toy Story 3 will be the first feature to have a 7.1 mix created from scratch.*

* If you don't count SDDS mixes (which, as you mentioned, are in a five front/two surround configuration).

Dubstar · 03-22-2010, 02:20 PM

^ so will the eventual bluray of Toy Story 3 be a full on a discrete 7.1 soundmix?

is that why none of the New Line DVD's that had 6.1 soundmixes are now 7.1 on blu, they matrixed the sound across a four speaker configurement?

RocShemp · 03-22-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstar

^ so will the eventual bluray of Toy Story 3 be a full on a discrete 7.1 soundmix?

They'd be crazy to do otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubstar

is that why none of the New Line DVD's that had 6.1 soundmixes are now 7.1 on blu, they matrixed the sound across a four speaker configurement?

I dunno why New Line does things the way they do. There was an early 7.1 release (I believe it was Crank but I'm not sure) that was really a 6.1 mix with the surround back channel spread across the surround back speakers. So it can be done. But the end result is still a faux-7.1 mix.

srrndhound · 03-22-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Except that the 7.1 sound mixes on current BD releases aren't "real" per se. Those are created by matrixing the two surround channels of a standard 5.1 mix in order to create two surround back channels. They then encode the resulting audio as a 7.1 mix.

It's the same process 7.1 receivers carry out via Dolby PLIIx or DTS Neo:6 except done on professional grade equipment.

I think you've been reading some misinformation. Even Chris from Audysseay has said as much, so I can see how you'd come to that conclusion--except it's not true. Ask MiCasa, or Sir Terrence, how it's really done. It's not a secret. And it's not an automatic upmixer.

LembasBread · 03-22-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srrndhound

I think you've been reading some misinformation. Even Chris from Audysseay has said as much, so I can see how you'd come to that conclusion--except it's not true. Ask MiCasa, or Sir Terrence, how it's really done. It's not a secret. And it's not an automatic upmixer.

It's not an automatic upmixer, but they're still created from 5.1 stems either way and not always completely re-mixed from the final mixing session.

Dubstar · 03-22-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocShemp

They'd be crazy to do otherwise.

I dunno why New Line does things the way they do. There was an early 7.1 release (I believe it was Crank but I'm not sure) that was really a 6.1 mix with the surround back channel spread across the surround back speakers. So it can be done. But the end result is still a faux-7.1 mix.

Isn't it also Warners faul as well

Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me bluray has a matrixed rear center channel of sound, even though it's not advertised as such, Goldmember' is standard 5.1 whereas the DVD is DTS-ES 6.1

I hope when Final Destination 2 and 3 get released on blu, Warner/New Line doesn't short change the audio and not encode the DTS-ES 6.1 soundmix.

03-20-2010, 03:54 AM	#1
Dubstar Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:down at Fraggle Rock Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:201 Blu-ray collection:1953 DVD collection:304 MA collection:4 Digital collection:33 Trading Score:29	Theatrical Lossless Digital projection question. I know this isn't technically a home theatre type of question, but an overall 'audio' question. I know that one of the advantages of digital projection is that the audio is uncompressed as compared to 35mm 'digital' lossy sound. What though, is the audio that is outputted to the theatre DP system - Dolby, DTS. SDDS? Can the audio mirror all the extracts of each system: Dolby Digital EX 6.1, DTS 6.1, 8-channel SDDS? I know that at one point there was mention that a height channel was speculated to be integrated into soundmixes, i.e: directly over the head - guess that never happened. How come 7.1 hasn't made the transition from bluray to the theatrical experience?

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03-21-2010, 06:04 PM	#3
Dubstar Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:down at Fraggle Rock Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:201 Blu-ray collection:1953 DVD collection:304 MA collection:4 Digital collection:33 Trading Score:29	well I know that LPCM is 'uncompressed', the question was what's sound we are hearing from the DLP, Sony LCoS systems in the theatre: Dolby, DTS, SDDS, or none of the three - ? Toy Story 3 in 7.1 in the theatre... awesome! - wonder what theatres in the DC metropolitan area will be upgraded to this configurement. I know that the National Amusement theatres - like Reston where I saw Toy Story 2 was the only theatre at the time to feature that movie in 6.1 Dolby Digital EX sound.

03-22-2010, 05:08 AM	#5
Dubstar Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:down at Fraggle Rock Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:201 Blu-ray collection:1953 DVD collection:304 MA collection:4 Digital collection:33 Trading Score:29	very interesting - apparently a total of 16- channels of sound can be processed - I'm surprised Sony didn't capitalize on this and release it's features out in 8-channel sound (five front/two surround), apparently Dolby beat them to the punch and is implementing 3-channel/4-channel surround, to bring to the masses, what bluray lossless already accomplishes.

03-22-2010, 02:20 PM	#7
Dubstar Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Jun 2008 Location:down at Fraggle Rock Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:201 Blu-ray collection:1953 DVD collection:304 MA collection:4 Digital collection:33 Trading Score:29	^ so will the eventual bluray of Toy Story 3 be a full on a discrete 7.1 soundmix? is that why none of the New Line DVD's that had 6.1 soundmixes are now 7.1 on blu, they matrixed the sound across a four speaker configurement?

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