Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Good point.

So the story starts with Anakin in the original Star Wars and ends with him in Jedi in the Ghost scene. Seems pretty clear to me who the most important character is. ....well except for the group shot.

The PT starts with Qui Gon and Obi Wan. Anakin does not appear until about a third of the way in to the TPM.

The OT ends with the main heroes, plus Lando and the Ewoks.

[ElvisForever]

@mightymax. Hold on there, now its Wedge too? Lol

@Martoto Killing all those children never redeems himself in my eyes. That is why I think the young Anakin ghost makes more sense. It is before he changed and was still good. Though he should have been a tad younger because he did sluaghter all those Sand People children at that point.

As for following footsteps, not same path, but an aspiring nonetheless. The ghost of Anakin is what Luke chases. I argue that Luke's path is easier because he has Anakin's mistakes to live off of as opposed to winging a blind path that Anakin has.

The OT has the Vader/Anakin at every turn. It was Anakin's redemption story. Even in the end Luke had to be bailed out because he couldn't handle the Emperor.

As for when Anakin shows up, well Luke doesn't show up until later in IV as well?

That doesn't make Anakin less. It is elements of story, not just quantity of screen time. A group shot doesn't change this fact.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

@mightymax. Hold on there, now its Wedge too? Lol

@Martoto Killing all those children never redeems himself in my eyes. That is why I think the young Anakin ghost makes more sense. It is before he changed and was still good. Though he should have been a tad younger because he did sluaghter all those Sand People children at that point.

As for following footsteps, not same path, but an aspiring nonetheless. The ghost of Anakin is what Luke chases. I argue that Luke's path is easier because he has Anakin's mistakes to live off of as opposed to winging a blind path that Anakin has.

The OT has the Vader/Anakin at every turn. It was Anakin's redemption story. Even in the end Luke had to be bailed out because he couldn't handle the Emperor.

As for when Anakin shows up, well Luke doesn't show up until later in IV as well?

That doesn't make Anakin less. It is elements of story, not just quantity of screen time. A group shot doesn't change this fact.

Luke is in Episode 3...

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Luke is in Episode 3...

Anakin 7 films one being a cameo burnt up mask with DNA. There may be 8 in Rogue Squadron if he shows there.

Luke 5 films with 2 cameos. At best Luke will get 7 with 2 cameos.

Anakin wins again. dare we go to the cartoons?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Anakin showed up as a Force ghost. He was redeemed.

He atoned. Redemption is a powerful word, friend. Don't wield it lightly.

[Geoff D]

Yep, and he ultimately paid for his sins with his life. I know he ended up in a happy-dappy force afterlife, sure, but if it's that great why don't they all just top themselves as soon as they're able to attain Jedi nirvana?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, and he ultimately paid for his sins with his life. I know he ended up in a happy-dappy force afterlife, sure, but if it's that great why don't they all just top themselves as soon as they're able to attain Jedi nirvana?

Maybe when the Jedi Christ wrote the Jedi book o' values he thought of that and decided to make suicide the ultimate Jedi sin!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Maybe when the Jedi Christ wrote the Jedi book o' values he thought of that and decided to make suicide the ultimate Jedi sin!

So really they're Space Catholics then?

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, and he ultimately paid for his sins with his life. I know he ended up in a happy-dappy force afterlife, sure, but if it's that great why don't they all just top themselves as soon as they're able to attain Jedi nirvana?

Because only a select few can attain force ghost status.
Qui-Gon Jinn was nearly there so he is only a voice.
Obi-Wan and Yoda attained ghost status.

Still not sure how anakin did...

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, and he ultimately paid for his sins with his life. I know he ended up in a happy-dappy force afterlife, sure, but if it's that great why don't they all just top themselves as soon as they're able to attain Jedi nirvana?

QUI-GON
Master Yoda, I have discovered how to survive in the living Force. I can teach you this power.

YODA
Amazing, Master Qui-Gon. Request I have. Do not tell anyone else. Bad grooming they have. I can smell Conehead from across the room. And Squid Head. And Moth Face.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

He atoned. Redemption is a powerful word, friend. Don't wield it lightly.

He may have atomed in the ghost spirit, but not for me. Murderng all those innocents and then killing one emperor to save his son doesn't make it even in my book.

When Luke said there is "some" good in you, that is all I agree with.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

He may have atomed in the ghost spirit, but not for me. Murderng all those innocents and then killing one emperor to save his son doesn't make it even in my book.

When Luke said there is "some" good in you, that is all I agree with.

Correct! Which is why Anakin is not "redeemed". He gives the only thing he has to give in atonement. His own life.

Sorry, I'm kind of an OCD theme freak about literature, it's just who I am. Words mean things. Anakin isn't redeemed, he atones...two wildly different words. If you want to address if the Force forgives him or if he's redeemed through the Force, that's a whole 'nother barrel of fish, and I ain't goin' near it.

YIKES AND AWAY!

(splat!)

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

@mightymax. Hold on there, now its Wedge too? Lol

@Martoto Killing all those children never redeems himself in my eyes. That is why I think the young Anakin ghost makes more sense. It is before he changed and was still good. Though he should have been a tad younger because he did sluaghter all those Sand People children at that point.

As for following footsteps, not same path, but an aspiring nonetheless. The ghost of Anakin is what Luke chases. I argue that Luke's path is easier because he has Anakin's mistakes to live off of as opposed to winging a blind path that Anakin has.

The OT has the Vader/Anakin at every turn. It was Anakin's redemption story. Even in the end Luke had to be bailed out because he couldn't handle the Emperor.

As for when Anakin shows up, well Luke doesn't show up until later in IV as well?

That doesn't make Anakin less. It is elements of story, not just quantity of screen time. A group shot doesn't change this fact.

The story doesn't begin with Anakin though. Doesn't diminish him. Doesn't support the idea that the whole saga is his story from beginning to end either. Arguably, Obi Wan fits your criteria better. Being in the opening scene of TPM and a ghost by the end of ROTJ.

[Martoto]

Obi Wan did say that Anakin ceased to exist once he became Lord Vader. That moment is after Anakin has allowed Sidious to destroy Mace. And before Vader liquidates the Jedi temple.

In ROTJ, Vader makes the choice to prevent his master from destroying his son. In a sense, Anakin regains possession of his identity and pays for it with his own life. I figure that covers both atonement ; Vader for the younglings, Anakin for Windu. And redemption of Anakin's identity.

You could also argue that being "consumed" by Darth Vader and enslavement by Sidious was atonement for Windu already.

[bobbyh64]

Anakin could've been suffering the entire time he was Vader without fully being aware of it. I don't know if atonement or redemption are the right words to describe his transformation. I think the spiritual term "awakened" might be more appropriate. If he realized the error of his ways then he doesn't really need to atone for his sins. What's that going to do? Prove to other people that he's good now? I doubt many people would forgive him anyway. Maybe the point is that he forgives himself. And his son helped him get to that point.

[Martoto]

I don't think it's a matter of proving anything. I think it's a matter of accepting that you've been wrong, admitting a mistake, then receiving a second chance to correct it. In a sense.

The scene in question is named "Vader's Redemption" in the blu ray menu, incidentally.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Qui-Gon Jinn was nearly there so he is only a voice.

Sometimes with sparkly lights!

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I don't think it's a matter of proving anything. I think it's a matter of accepting that you've been wrong, admitting a mistake, then receiving a second chance to correct it. In a sense.

The scene in question is named "Vader's Redemption" in the blu ray menu, incidentally.

The liner notes for the old DVD for Sleeping Beauty said it was Disney's first widescreen animated feature (it wasn't). Sometimes people are clumsy. Like Daffy Duck.

YIKES! AND AWAY!

(splat!)

[Slickone]

I was going to order the Complete Saga Blu-Ray. Is it worth keeping my 2004 DVD trilogy (silver box with Vader's mask)? What extras is the Blu-Ray set missing that the DVD trilogy has?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Slickone

I was going to order the Complete Saga Blu-Ray. Is it worth keeping my 2004 DVD trilogy (silver box with Vader's mask)? What extras is the Blu-Ray set missing that the DVD trilogy has?

Empire of Dreams, for starters, which is very good. I'd keep the DVD set. Sure, pick up the Blu-Ray saga collection, but keep the DVDs.