Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I do think the OT needs new commentaries, real ones. Not pieced together (though, that does make it amusing, as Lucas contradicts himself so often when you mix together things he said at various times). I really hope that while everyone was together in England they did something in that vein.

I more meant the original DVD commentaries, which I remember liking quite a bit. I haven't listened to the new archival interview commentaries actually.

[stvn1974]

The funny thing is that during the commentaries Lucas can't even be bothered with explaining why he added senseless CGI to a scene or why he changed dialogue.

Most of us aren't stupid, George, we know those rocks weren't there before.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Yes, you'll find that there were a few of us who pointed this out way back a thousand pages or so back when the details emerged about the release. Some folks found this idea really offensive, that this wasn't the "definitive" release - but it was clear that it wasn't. The Blu-ray extras were rather lackluster, and some of what was included was really junk compared to what could have been on it. At the time it was obvious that stuff was being held back, and once the Disney sale was announced, it was very clear why.

I do think the OT needs new commentaries, real ones. Not pieced together (though, that does make it amusing, as Lucas contradicts himself so often when you mix together things he said at various times). I really hope that while everyone was together in England they did something in that vein.

Boy, I didn't even think of that. Imagine one with Ford, Fisher and Hamill and JJ moderating? Even if we didn't get any more insight into the making of the movie (it's been damned near 40 years and they've said pretty much all they can) it'd be great to just have the three of them shooting the breeze about SW in general.

[Gold Ranger]

Back in '04, before the DVD's came out, Entertainment Weekly ran an article detailing all of the changes that would be on the DVD's.
I remember being really pissed when I read that Sebastian was being replaced with Hayden. And Jason being replaced with Temura.
Then George explained it and it actually made sense. I may not like it, but as a Saga, I don't find it jarring.

Look at it this way, How is Sebastian's Anakin STANDING?
He has no arms and no legs, he pretty much is just Torso-boy...
If he can Force-Ghost-Regenerate his limbs, why WOULDN'T he make himself look like he was younger from before he turned to the Dark Side?

[stvn1974]

Force Ghost Obi-Wan appears, then Yoda and then young Anakin. Then Obi-Wan and Yoda blurt out "oh, no, not this whiny brat again for all eternity." Fade out to credits.

[Geoff D]

Changing Anakin's ghost I don't have a problem with. Using shitty outtakes from Sith I have a major problem with.

I'd love it if they filmed something with Hayden a few more years down the road, something where he looks older and wiser and more benevolent, and not like the callow child-murdering youth that Anakin was.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Changing Anakin's ghost I don't have a problem with. Using shitty outtakes from Sith I have a major problem with.

I'd love it if they filmed something with Hayden a few more years down the road, something where he looks older and wiser and more benevolent, and not like the callow child-murdering youth that Anakin was.

Yeah, there are very few changes I really get mad about and also very few I really like. Most I just shrug my shoulders over, to be honest. The ghost is one of them.

I actually would be in favor of Christensen having a cameo in some spin-off movie as a ghost, if it worked for the plot. Same with Neeson. I would love an Obi-Wan movie with Mcgregor and Neeson as a force ghost.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Back in '04, before the DVD's came out, Entertainment Weekly ran an article detailing all of the changes that would be on the DVD's.
I remember being really pissed when I read that Sebastian was being replaced with Hayden. And Jason being replaced with Temura.
Then George explained it and it actually made sense. I may not like it, but as a Saga, I don't find it jarring.

Look at it this way, How is Sebastian's Anakin STANDING?
He has no arms and no legs, he pretty much is just Torso-boy...
If he can Force-Ghost-Regenerate his limbs, why WOULDN'T he make himself look like he was younger from before he turned to the Dark Side?

Ghost Anakin can revert to his younger self, but Ghost Obi-Wan can't? See why it's stupid? He should be older, not younger. Plus how would Luke even recognize him, he only saw his face moments before his death. Plus it's disrespectful to Shaw (who's now dead and can't speak up) and his family by removing him from history. Also, he's not the only one to get cut from the update: Elaine Baker was replaced with Ian McDiarmid in The Empire Strikes Back. Now granted, Ian actually plays the Emperor in Return of the Jedi (and all the prequels), but you lose some of the creepiness that Elaine in all the makeup and face mostly covered with the hood had. By having Ian's face mostly exposed, it didn't have the same feel.

But I'm more upset with the Shaw replacement than I am the Baker replacement. It was his replacement that really drove me over the edge into absolutely hating the '04 and future cuts of the film. I was "ok" with the '97 cut, even though there were things about it I didn't like, but I absolutely hated the '04 cut.

How can you hate the '97 cut but be ok with the '04 cut? That's what makes no sense at all. The '04 cut has even MORE edits than the '97 cut did, yet you like the '04 cut.

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Ghost Anakin can revert to his younger self, but Ghost Obi-Wan can't? See why it's stupid? He should be older, not younger. Plus how would Luke even recognize him, he only saw his face moments before his death. Plus it's disrespectful to Shaw (who's now dead and can't speak up) and his family by removing him from history. Also, he's not the only one to get cut from the update: Elaine Baker was replaced with Ian McDiarmid in The Empire Strikes Back. Now granted, Ian actually plays the Emperor in Return of the Jedi (and all the prequels), but you lose some of the creepiness that Elaine in all the makeup and face mostly covered with the hood had. By having Ian's face mostly exposed, it didn't have the same feel.

But I'm more upset with the Shaw replacement than I am the Baker replacement. It was his replacement that really drove me over the edge into absolutely hating the '04 and future cuts of the film. I was "ok" with the '97 cut, even though there were things about it I didn't like, but I absolutely hated the '04 cut.

How can you hate the '97 cut but be ok with the '04 cut? That's what makes no sense at all. The '04 cut has even MORE edits than the '97 cut did, yet you like the '04 cut.

But uncle George gave us the exact reason, anakins was good young, bad old, so he took the form of good when he returned as a force ghost. The fundamental flaw with this is that he returned to good before he died when he was old, so BRING BACK SEBASTIAN SHAW.

[Geoff D]

It's not that Obi-Wan can't change his appearance, he just doesn't want/need to. But the Ranger is right: the old Ghost was still an idealised version of what Anakin looked like vs the scarred Humpty Dumpty that gets revealed in the suit, and Luke knows who he is, it doesn't have to be the exact same figure.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Back in '04, before the DVD's came out, Entertainment Weekly ran an article detailing all of the changes that would be on the DVD's.
I remember being really pissed when I read that Sebastian was being replaced with Hayden. And Jason being replaced with Temura.
Then George explained it and it actually made sense. I may not like it, but as a Saga, I don't find it jarring.

Look at it this way, How is Sebastian's Anakin STANDING?
He has no arms and no legs, he pretty much is just Torso-boy...
If he can Force-Ghost-Regenerate his limbs, why WOULDN'T he make himself look like he was younger from before he turned to the Dark Side?

Luke would not have known what his Daddy looked like young. So Shaw was the logical choice to leave intact because he turned good old and died old. Why not replace Sir Alec with Ewen? George muddle the whole thing up and now it will forever be a mess.

[Vidfreek]

Hayden replacing Shaw was never a huge issue with me, to me it fit with the saga of the series and I always felt that he showed up that way because thats the way he was at his best, when he still cared for everyone and was truly Obi-Wans best friend, I was fine with that change, kind of upset due to it just being changed (just dont like George changing things in general so far down the line).

Some things make zero sense like Wicket blinking, why? There is no explanation behind that one is there? And if there is, how come none of the other Ewoks blink? I made sure to watch all of them as closely as possible and I never see any other one blink except for Wicket, sooooo whats the point then George? Why put giant rocks to block R2D2s hiding spot more when those rocks pretty much show it being impossible for him to even get in there? Why add background shots to cloud city that look so obviously CG and out of place compared to the rest of the sets? Why add Vader yelling NOOOOO at the end of Return of the Jedi, ruining a great moment in the score AND ruining the whole scene in general, its the fact that you could see Vader's pain and decision making even with a mask on, we didnt need some dumb NOOOOO put in there for people to realize that. Dont even have to go into the Han debacle, not to mention changes in the Cantina with different monsters inserted and others taken out, again another decision that makes no sense.

So many of his changes have no reasoning behind them at all, not to mention his obsession with CG and putting in CG scenes into a movie that had NO CG, which in turn makes it blatantly obvious that it IS CG and it looks completely out of place....needless to say I'm so glad these new movies dont have him involved, the newest teaser alone looks more like a Star Wars movie than any of the prequels or additions Lucas did to the OT

[Vidfreek]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

Luke would not have known what his Daddy looked like young. So Shaw was the logical choice to leave intact because he turned good old and died old. Why not replace Sir Alec with Ewen? George muddle the whole thing up and now it will forever be a mess.

Well to be fair, Luke didnt know what his dad looked like at all until he saw the bald mangled face under the mask for 30 seconds, so even Shaw showing up as he did doesnt make much sense either since Luke would just be assuming that was his dad right? Obi-Wan was always good and in a sense they all showed up as they died while on the light side of the force, even if Anakin was truly redeemed at the end with Luke, he still changed his appearance to show up that way because he didnt look like that when he died.

You can probably go back and forth on this one for some time but compared to other changes, I just dont see this one being as much of a big deal as some of the others since you can easily argue either side IMO

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vidfreek

Well to be fair, Luke didnt know what his dad looked like at all until he saw the bald mangled face under the mask for 30 seconds, so even Shaw showing up as he did doesnt make much sense either since Luke would just be assuming that was his dad right?

That's a bingo.

[stvn1974]

I still prefer older Anakin. This way I can pretend the prequels never happened. Anakin and Obi-Wan were good friends the same age, Leia's mother died when she was very young, Yoda wasn't an incompetent moron, the Jedi weren't fools and all of the other things I believed happened from just watching the OT.

Same thing with the original ending to Jedi with the Ewok song.

Thank goodness for the Despecialized versions.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's because Obi-Wan's emulating the cry of a Krayt Dragon (supposedly) which is something even the Sand People are scared of. The original effect sounded great (even though the sound was re-used for the dewbacks which aren't so scary ), the bird-like call in the '04 version was not scary in the least, and the '11 version is plain ****ed up. As said above, it sounds like something a kid knocked together in about 5 minutes, but because the rest of the mix is sooooo much better than the DVD I just grit my teeth and get on with it.

oh god, the Krayt dragon howl change on the Bluray. I'm honestly stunned that the new scream made it on there. it's so hilariously bad that Georgey boy HAD to be trolling us. there's no way anyone was THAT stupid

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by wormraper

oh god, the Krayt dragon howl change on the Bluray. I'm honestly stunned that the new scream made it on there. it's so hilariously bad that Georgey boy HAD to be trolling us. there's no way anyone was THAT stupid

See also: the disappearing rocks in front of Artoo in the same scene. I think you're right, Lucas genuinely stopped giving a shit and was just on the troll, hence all the other useless crap added to Jedi too.

[stvn1974]

Since I was a kid I always thought the sand people were scared of Ben because of the "that man is just a crazy old wizard" rumors that would have been all around. They heard that Krayt call with him waving his arms and hooded and they took off. The new version sounds like someone is being tortured by having their balls electrocuted.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Since I was a kid I always thought the sand people were scared of Ben because of the "that man is just a crazy old wizard" rumors that would have been all around. They heard that Krayt call with him waving his arms and hooded and they took off. The new version sounds like someone is being tortured by having their balls electrocuted.

Actually, it's usually higher pitched in that instance...not so guttural.

I researched that real hard online.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I still prefer older Anakin. This way I can pretend the prequels never happened. Anakin and Obi-Wan were good friends the same age, Leia's mother died when she was very young, Yodo wasn't an incompetent moron, the Jedi weren't fools and all of the other things I believed happened from just watching the OT.

Same thing with the original ending to Jedi with the Ewok song.

Thank goodness for the Despecialized versions.

That's one of things that bugged me about the Prequels.

Far too many inconsistencies when compared to the OT.

It's like Lucas forgot to watch the OT before making the PT.