Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Breather]

Originally Posted by KS76

The point being that there is still a human being under that mask and metal machinery, a soul that descended to the darkside and was redeemed is the main point of the saga.
Darth Vader was not supposed to sound like a badass in these instances, the point being that Vader's humanity is what's on display in these scenes, the only time we see him with any emotion other than hate and anger. The official blu-ray clip of Vader's voice in ROTJ sounds much better than the mistimed clip put together by a fan on youtube, and it will sound even better on blu-ray. I think it's more natural to hear him say, "NO, NO" rather than look like the cat got his tongue. The dialogue is more natural than just silence. I think mot peple in that situation would shout out NO you sick F##K let go of my son or something to that effect while throwing his ass down the drain rather than acting like a mute.
Anyway, the change is not that big of a deal, certainly not enough to not get the blu-rays over.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it but I have the opposite one. The silence stood for 28 years as the iconic end to the story. This was because the music, the focus on Vader's mask, his looks back and forth between Luke and the Emperor, and even the lightning reflecting in his mask perfectly conveyed the fact that his humanity was returning. Even though he was wearing a mask, you could still "see" the emotion stirring in him. Even viewing it for the first time in 1983, when they showed the close up on his mask while Luke was being killed and he gave the Emperor that first look, you knew he was about to do something. You didn't need your hand held by hearing a "no" to understand he was going to stop the Emperor. The original scene as conceived by Lucas/Kasdan worked beautifully for 28 years and I never heard or read a complaint that the scene needed changing. Now, the hand-holding exposition reminds me of the "bring my shuttle" change in Empire where Lucas felt we needed to see a step-by-step process of just how Vader got back to his ship.

[Neomic]

I personally don't understand why people say something or another in the movies were "corny." That's the way is supposed to be! These movies are based on the old Flash Gordon serials and other classic movies; Last I remember, the dialog in Flash Gordon was corny, and the dialog in lot of classic movies as well.

If you're upset about the changes made, then don't buy the set. Go out and buy the 2006 DVDs. As far as I know, the original reels that contained the UOT are heavily damaged. Stock film deteriorates very fast. Unless they one day discover a pristine set of reels that contain the UOT, then the 2006 DVDs are as close as we're gonna get.

Would I love to get the unaltered versions? Hell yes, what Star Wars fan woudn't?! But at the same time, I can still watch these Blu-ray versions and appreciate the film regardless of the cuts, edits, additions, and other changes.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Stlsports

Speaking of image quality and what not. I was re watching a webisode on episode II where they say one of the reasons they shot digitally is because it was a "ridiculous process to shoot on film and scan it to digital" They had to wait about a day to get it developed and scanned to digital.

The majority of big effects movies that shoot film for digital post-production from the last 6-8 years didn't seem to find it so "ridiculous". But, most movies also aren't shooting on a completely virtual blue-screen set with very little location work. I think that's the bigger flaw with Lucas's visual approach than digital cameras. When pretty much everything on screen but the actors is artificial, it's going to look a bit video-gamey.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by AlexSing

Phew, that took me what, 2 1/2 hrs and I'm still several pages behind real time lol

And just as a point of fact, as much as I abhor the changes (and once BD's have been watched I'll just go back to OT Upscaled DVD whenever I watch them) - for the record I always thought Ben's scream sounded stupid. This is just a different stupid.

I didn't mind the pre-2004 howl. The 2004 sound had a "wimpy" quality about it. This new one just makes me laugh. It's embarrassingly bad.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Breather

I don't like the packaging, cover artwork, or inner artwork for the US set but I'm not one to really care much about that kind of thing. This was a little surprising though:

[Show spoiler]Attachment 37460

Luke Skywalker and the heroes of the OT just shoved up in the right corner like an afterthought. Definitely got a head-shaking chuckle out of that one.

It makes perfect sense, though. The PT received a great deal of deserved criticism. This hurt George's feelings, since those movies were more "his" than the OT, especially Empire. Ever since then George has done his best to link the PT and OT under one saga of Vader. He wants people to see the movies as "Episodes 1-6" rather than individual trilogies.

Look at older artwork for VHS releases. The titles focus on the names of the movies. Now, those names are shoved under big roman numerals as an afterthought. He wants you to forget that the OT once existed without the redundant, devoid, dull, lifeless prequels that overexplained everything yet enlightened nothing because no explanation or enlightenment were needed. Sadly for him most SW fans and fans of film in general will never see the PT as anything more than a desperate filmmaker milking a franchise because he hasn't had an original idea since the early 80s. Without those other creative forces like Kurtz, Kasdan, etc. the results speak for themselves and show to whom the OT really belongs in a creative sense.

George desperately wants people to accept the PT on the same level as the OT for his ego and to spite those he banished from his circle long ago. That's why the artwork in there is skewed. That's why you only get deleted scenes for the OT if you buy the complete saga. That's why he tries to "link" the trilogies by things like adding silly, out of place emoting to crucial, quiet yet powerful scenes like Vader turning against Palpy. He's shoving the PT down your throat. He wants you to think of the same instance in ROTS and realize, "Oh, it's poetry. It rhymes with the other movie. Brilliant." No, not brilliant. Just facepalm.

[tkdkid717]

Has anyone in the US manage to nab a copy of the complete saga early who doesn't have industry connections to the studio or reviewers? A.K.A. has anyone found it early in a store yet?

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by Cook

Having footage immediately after it is shot is much easier on the director. I would have liked Episodes 2&3 shot on film, but I can't deny that it is an easier process than film.

What Cook said. Shooting it this way, George could watch the shot right after shooting it and if he didn't like it, he could reshoot it right there and then, and not have to wait for dailies to come back. It saved alot of time shooting, and at the same time, gave George more time to do more takes if needed. It also enabled the editing team to start cutting the movie together that much faster. It was also significantly cheaper as opposed to shooting on film. I think it was a few million cheaper.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by georgec

It makes perfect sense, though. The PT received a great deal of deserved criticism. This hurt George's feelings, since those movies were more "his" than the OT, especially Empire. Ever since then George has done his best to link the PT and OT under one saga of Vader. He wants people to see the movies as "Episodes 1-6" rather than individual trilogies.

Look at older artwork for VHS releases. The titles focus on the names of the movies. Now, those names are shoved under big roman numerals as an afterthought.

George desperately wants people to accept the PT on the same level as the OT. That's why the artwork in there is skewed. That's why you only get deleted scenes for the OT if you buy the complete saga. That's why he tries to "link" the trilogies by things like adding silly, out of place emoting to crucial, quiet yet powerful scenes like Vader turning against Palpy. He wants you to think of the same instance in ROTS and realize, "Oh, it's poetry. It rhymes with the other movie. Brilliant." No, not brilliant. Just facepalm.

I think they said his daughter even picked out the artwork, right? That could explain the art as well. She grew up more with the PT and even had cameos. She likely has more attachment to those films and even prefers them. He received a lot of criticism for the prequels. If it's true that she picked the art, her bias is obvious.

[mitch22]

Originally Posted by Breather

I don't like the packaging, cover artwork, or inner artwork for the US set but I'm not one to really care much about that kind of thing. This was a little surprising though:

Attachment 37460

Luke Skywalker and the heroes of the OT just shoved up in the right corner like an afterthought. Definitely got a head-shaking chuckle out of that one.

This is pretty cool actually. Sidenote, as useless as they are, the battle droids sure do look cool.

Sad to see Luke, Han, Leia, and Lando in a little corner..

[Breather]

Originally Posted by xrose

As for the corrections made, people with the rip are contradicting those who were invited to preview the blu-ray; so someone is lying.

I don't believe the reviewers were lying. As Bill Hunt and Adam Gregorich at HTF stated in their previews, many rushed the bonus discs. When you think about it, the complete OT is over 6 hours long. That's a lot of scenes. It's doubtful the reviewers had time to closely examine known problem frames except those that Lucasfilm highlighted.

[Ernest Rister]

It looks like the inside of a nerd's composition book. Seriously, that mosaic is awful in every way - bad art, bad composition, bad conception, bad execution - it seriously looks like the kind of thing created by a 16 year old.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Breather

I think they said his daughter even picked out the artwork, right? That could explain the art as well. She grew up more with the PT and even had cameos. She likely has more attachment to those films and even prefers them. He received a lot of criticism for the prequels. If it's true that she picked the art, her bias is obvious.

I agree. This isn't a personal attack on her, but I am skeptical that the daughter of George Lucas would have a broad, balanced view of the Star Wars saga's history or of film in general. Hehe, there's no chance anybody in that situation would develop a rational view towards the movies.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by georgec

I agree. This isn't a personal attack on her, but I am skeptical that the daughter of George Lucas would have a broad, balanced view of the Star Wars saga's history or of film in general. Hehe, there's no chance anybody in that situation would develop a rational view towards the movies.

I agree. I wish they had let someone else handle the artwork and its selection. I even liked the plain Amazon placeholder from months back. A dark cover with "Star Wars" on it.

[PRO-630HD]

Is it safe to say that none of the extras from episodes 1-3 are on this bluray set. Meaning the extras from disc 2 on the first 3 films?

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Breather

I don't like the packaging, cover artwork, or inner artwork for the US set but I'm not one to really care much about that kind of thing. This was a little surprising though:

Attachment 37460

Luke Skywalker and the heroes of the OT just shoved up in the right corner like an afterthought. Definitely got a head-shaking chuckle out of that one.

Dear lord, that man really hates the OT, doesn't he? I can't imagine why he didn't just remake them.

[Stlsports]

Originally Posted by 42041

The majority of big effects movies that shoot film for digital post-production from the last 6-8 years didn't seem to find it so "ridiculous". But, most movies also aren't shooting on a completely virtual blue-screen set with very little location work. I think that's the bigger flaw with Lucas's visual approach than digital cameras. When pretty much everything on screen but the actors is artificial, it's going to look a bit video-gamey.

Yeah and Lucas seemed to really enjoy watching the takes on big plasma monitors, which I can understand. I think he also believes shooting blue/green screen is just as good as shooting on location. It's a wonder he returned to Tunisha (sp) in Ep II.

[KS76]

Originally Posted by Breather

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it but I have the opposite one. The silence stood for 28 years as the iconic end to the story. This was because the music, the focus on Vader's mask, his looks back and forth between Luke and the Emperor, and even the lightning reflecting in his mask perfectly conveyed the fact that his humanity was returning. Even though he was wearing a mask, you could still "see" the emotion stirring in him. Even viewing it for the first time in 1983, when they showed the close up on his mask while Luke was being killed and he gave the Emperor that first look, you knew he was about to do something. You didn't need your hand held by hearing a "no" to understand he was going to stop the Emperor. The original scene as conceived by Lucas/Kasdan worked beautifully for 28 years and I never heard or read a complaint that the scene needed changing. Now, the hand-holding exposition reminds me of the "bring my shuttle" change in Empire where Lucas felt we needed to see a step-by-step process of just how Vader got back to his ship.

While I agree the original scene in ROTJ worked. I think this one works too, and I think I'll actually prefer based on what I've seen of the official clip of the blu-ray rip. To me screaming NO is a natural thing that someone wuld do in that situation. I certainly don't think it's worth not getting the blu-rays set over. If Lucas would just produce the UOT on BD, this uproar would be a lot less and there would be a lot less people feeling like they just want to cancel their preorders.
I'll get the UOT when it comes out, but I'm definitley getting the Complete Saga in two weeks time. Can't wait.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

Is it safe to say that none of the extras from episodes 1-3 are on this bluray set. Meaning the extras from disc 2 on the first 3 films?

Someone mentioned that it's possible the deleted scenes from the PT may have been carried over but it hasn't been confirmed. Nothing else from those discs are carrying over and neither is any of the content from the OT bonus DVD from 2004. None of the older extras from the VHS/LD days made it either, outside of the three classic docs on Disc 9.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by Breather

Someone mentioned that it's possible the deleted scenes from the PT may have been carried over but it hasn't been confirmed. Nothing else from those discs are carrying over and neither is any of the content from the OT bonus DVD from 2004. None of the older extras from the VHS/LD days made it either, outside of the three classic docs on Disc 9.

I actually have the extras disc from the 2004 dvd set of Star Wars. Thanks though, I am debating on getting Episodes 4-6 as they really aren't more than a half ass effort based on 7 year old masters with minor tweaks. Episodes 1-3 look as good as they possibly can since they are from the original digital files.

[Breather]

Originally Posted by KS76

While I agree the original scene in ROTJ worked. I think this one works too, and I think I'll actually prefer based on what I've seen of the official clip of the blu-ray rip. To me screaming NO is a natural thing that someone wuld do in that situation.

We disagree and I think it hurts the scene but I respect your opinion. The only thing I'll add is that Vader is not natural so I really don't expect him to do things like a normal human being. I think the silence made the scene more powerful.

Originally Posted by KS76

If Lucas would just produce the UOT on BD, this uproar would be a lot less and there would be a lot less people feeling like they just want to cancel their preorders.

I agree. That's the best solution and I hope he relents someday.