Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by Machine Gun Willy

Those look awful on a modern television. No one should have to watch that crap.

I just watched those versions 2 weeks ago and they are fine for what they are. It isn't the ideal picture quality, but my TV and BD player did an excellent job of upconverting them.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Cobra Kai

You're not wrong. There certainly is no "easy" way of doing that. But it has been done. And it wasn't just by scanning some old print.
It was actually done by scanning MANY old prints (including a pristine IB Tech print). Then with the help of custom software that took over 10 years to develop, each of the scans are "stacked", perfectly aligned, and then detail is combined from each print to resolve the image back to the original negative. This is possible because every single print has it's own totally unique grain pattern, so different information from each print can be combined together to recover lost data.

Here is the software in action:

[Show spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=92&v=XaDlP-kmzWk

And here are a bunch of before and after videos of the restoration itself:
https://vimeo.com/channels/starwarslegacy

This is fascinating.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Cobra Kai

You're not wrong. There certainly is no "easy" way of doing that. But it has been done. And it wasn't just by scanning some old print.
It was actually done by scanning MANY old prints (including a pristine IB Tech print). Then with the help of custom software that took over 10 years to develop, each of the scans are "stacked", perfectly aligned, and then detail is combined from each print to resolve the image back to the original negative. This is possible because every single print has it's own totally unique grain pattern, so different information from each print can be combined together to recover lost data.

Here is the software in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=92&v=XaDlP-kmzWk

And here are a bunch of before and after videos of the restoration itself:
https://vimeo.com/channels/starwarslegacy

These fan edits are getting pretty crazy...
I don't really see how stacking individual scans could do much more than getting rid of the particular grain/damage of each individual source though. Which is a good thing for cleaning up the material, but the generational resolution loss would be more or less uniform and essentially irrevocable. Cool stuff though.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by 42041

I don't know who Mike Verta is but unless he has access to the original negatives, he did not. That's the only thing you're going to get true 4K Star Wars footage from.
There are probably many ways to do it on the cheap - the simplest would be to remove the most offensive scenes from the SE and call it a day (let's face it, most people aren't going to be up in arms about the odd cgi alien and new matte painting). They could scan a print or maybe they've got some old IP laying around and clean it up. But if you want a true high-end 4K transfer that looks consistently good, there is no easy way of doing that.

Well the word was going around that they have actually done a 4K scan of the films-- but it was also confirmed they were not the originals. Which makes sense, seeing as the Special Edition material was spliced into the original negative.

We also know it can't be the DVD versions onward, as those enhancements were done entirely digitally from the scans created for the 2004 DVD (also used as the source for the Blu-Ray editions).

My theory (which is purely speculation) is that they are remastering the films, starting with the 1997 Special Editions, and then from there using that as a base to restore the original versions, either by piecing the original negative elements back in, or getting them from some other film print or similar source.

[Nada]

Originally Posted by Machine Gun Willy

Those look awful on a modern television. No one should have to watch that crap.

I know! We should all be watching the corrected final versions on Blu-ray.

[samuel1976]

I was shocked at just how poor the PQ is on the blu rays. I was expecting the best treatment.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Plus, nobody should be surprised that Fox Home Video is releasing this new boxed set prior to the release of the new Star Wars movie. Even I saw that one coming. Fox Home Video is taking advantage of the new movie from Disney to sell more Star Wars boxed sets.

Fox aren't releasing a new box set Disney are. Fox are distributing the set on Lucasfilm's and Disney's through their distribution deal. Fox can't just release Blu-rays when they feel like it.

Originally Posted by kemcha

It's kind of funny, if you think about it, that Disney will never be able to release a "Star Wars Complete Saga/Series" boxed set since Fox Studios owns the first Star Wars movie in perpetuity.

Fox own distribution rights for Star Wars, not ownership rights. All the films belong to Disney and Lucasfilm.

If Fox owned Star Wars do you think Disney would be able to make a film with characters from Star Wars if they did?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by samuel1976

I was shocked at just how poor the PQ is on the blu rays. I was expecting the best treatment.

They're the DVD masters. They were quite highly thought of when they were released, as people were so happy to get them, but all their limitations have been brought over to Blu-ray.

Only The Phantom Menace had a new transfer. The Revenge of the Sith will never look much better unless it takes advantage of UHD BDs extra features (even though it was shot and finished in a lower resolution than 4K). If they ever do a full restoration then the original trilogy could look fantastic.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by chip75

Fox aren't releasing a new box set Disney are. Fox are distributing the set on Lucasfilm's and Disney's through their distribution deal. Fox can't just release Blu-rays when they feel like it.



Fox own distribution rights for Star Wars, not ownership rights. All the films belong to Disney and Lucasfilm.

If Fox owned Star Wars do you think Disney would be able to make a film with characters from Star Wars if they did?

Chip, I've given up tryin' to explain it. You'd think at this point there would be a sticky on this thread detailing the difference between distribution rights and film ownership. I surrender.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by Nada

I know! We should all be watching the corrected final versions on Blu-ray.

[Show spoiler]

"Corrected."

Originally Posted by chip75

Only The Phantom Menace had a new transfer.

And it shows!

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Machine Gun Willy

Those look awful on a modern television. No one should have to watch that crap.

They really don't look that bad. Not great by any means, but not as unwatchable as their reputation. I only got them recently and I'm happy with them.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

They're the DVD masters. They were quite highly thought of when they were released, as people were so happy to get them, but all their limitations have been brought over to Blu-ray.

Only The Phantom Menace had a new transfer. The Revenge of the Sith will never look much better unless it takes advantage of UHD BDs extra features (even though it was shot and finished in a lower resolution than 4K). If they ever do a full restoration then the original trilogy could look fantastic.

Even then Phantom Menace wasn't a new film-to-tape doohickey, they simply went back to the 2K files (as opposed to the filmed-out element that they used for the DVD) and then handed it over to Lowry to work their, ah, magic on it. I still wonder if the DNR was done to make the 3D conversion easier and no-one bothered to make a 2D master without the noise reduction.

Still, even though it was shot on film it'll never get a proper 4K redo because the movie - which has only ONE shot without any CG manipulation - only exists in a finished form at 2K, and the CG will never be re-rendered because ILM no longer have the software to redo the files that they have (which they found out when doing the 3D conversion).

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still, even though it was shot on film it'll never get a proper 4K redo because the movie - which has only ONE shot without any CG manipulation - only exists in a finished form at 2K, and the CG will never be re-rendered because ILM no longer have the software to redo the files that they have (which they found out when doing the 3D conversion).

I'm looking forward to seeing how many films actually get re-rendered effects for their UHD BD releases. I'm going out on a thick redwood limb and say that the number is tiny.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Even then Phantom Menace wasn't a new film-to-tape doohickey, they simply went back to the 2K files (as opposed to the filmed-out element that they used for the DVD) and then handed it over to Lowry to work their, ah, magic on it. I still wonder if the DNR was done to make the 3D conversion easier and no-one bothered to make a 2D master without the noise reduction.

Still, even though it was shot on film it'll never get a proper 4K redo because the movie - which has only ONE shot without any CG manipulation - only exists in a finished form at 2K, and the CG will never be re-rendered because ILM no longer have the software to redo the files that they have (which they found out when doing the 3D conversion).

God, preservation is such an afterthought in Hollywood, despite all the lessons they have learned over the years. Not as bad as the video game industry at least, who don't preserve anything, but still... ugh.

Star Wars is one of the very few franchises where they might have re-done stuff in 4k for a future release.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm looking forward to seeing how many films actually get re-rendered effects for their UHD BD releases. I'm going out on a thick redwood limb and say that the number is tiny.

Sure, but the point is that because the Star Wars prequels have so much digital manipulation (yes pedants, that's on top of all the practical stuff) that they really are locked at 2K, even the one shot on film. As I said in the Bad Boys thread, some modern 2K stuff could get away with a 4K rebuild because there'd be enough 'native' 4K material in amongst the upscaled VFX shots, but the prequels? Fuggeddaboutit.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

God, preservation is such an afterthought in Hollywood, despite all the lessons they have learned over the years. Not as bad as the video game industry at least, who don't preserve anything, but still... ugh.

Star Wars is one of the very few franchises where they might have re-done stuff in 4k for a future release.

The crazy thing is, if they were to go back to the large format VistaVision VFX elements in the OT and scan them up at 8K (like Blade Runner) then it would spank anything seen in the PT.

BUT I can't blame Lucas for locking his new movies into 2K because he was at the bleeding edge of this tech and didn't have anywhere else to go...it's the people who are still persisting with 2K finishes 15 years later that are the problem re: the lack of 4K content.

[kemcha]

The way that I understand it, 20th Century Fox owns the first Star Wars movie. It makes sense considering that 20th Century Fox paid all financial costs related to the production of the first movie. It wasn't until after the movie hit theaters and became a box office success that George Lucas renegotiated a new deal for sequels when the movie studio wanted Lucas to produce a sequel. That's when, from how I understand it, that Lucas would agree to forego any payment in favor of ownership rights to any sequels that he would produce for any further Star Wars films.

From the established information, 20th Century Fox will continue to own theatrical, home video, digital, and broadcast distribution rights to the first Star Wars movie, A New Hope. While it's true that Disney will own the idea of the first Star Wars movie, they can't really do anything with the film, meaning they are truly hamstrung. The only rights that Disney will have to the Star Wars saga, basically, are Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, the Prequel films and any future Star Wars films that are produced under the Disney banner.

That also means that they will be prevented from releasing a complete series set or any iteration of the first Star Wars film.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

the movie - which has only ONE shot without any CG manipulation

What shot would that be?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Arawn

What shot would that be?

Rick McCallum points it out in the commentary, it's the close-up of the gas escaping the vent near the beginning.

[Arawn]

I would think there would have to have been more non-CG shots than just that. Like Anakin & Shmi standing in front of the physical slave quarters set, for example. There's also a shot on the ship where you see part of Jar Jar and you're meant to think it's the CGI version but it's actually the costume.