Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Superman is not a compelling character to me, he never has been, never will be. Not the comic books, not Donner's attempt, not Singer's, and certainly not Snyder's. He is an overrated, overpowered god-like character, who has no inherent flaws. Very much (!) like Rey. Also, outside of them both being shitty god-like characters, the comparison is somewhat moot. Luke, and even Anakin had to undergo several trials in the movies to gain power. Rey, well "she has training and in the books and the future movies it'll be explained." A future movie, and needing to read a novel is not, and should never be a pre-requisite to watching the film in front of me.

I really don't think they're relying on you reading the books or anything, they're just leaving some mystery for the future episodes to fill in. Episode IV did the same thing back in '77 really, it's not like we met the Emperor right away or knew what happened to Vader or whatever else. The series has always had a "picking up in the middle" kind of feel. Also Rey is good at everything without training because that's a Jedi thing, Anakin and Luke were the same.

[bobbyh64]

I had no idea how hated TFA was by some people. I thought it was a pretty damn good movie. The similarities with Star Wars (I refuse to call it A New Hope!) didn't bother me. The film had a lot of interesting plot points and I didn't mind the humor in it. I laughed at some of the obvious jokes, like Han Solo shooting a weapon and saying "I like this thing" or when Finn asked if Han Solo was a war hero and Chewbacca sort of shrugged and said "I don't know" in his own language. It was just a very enjoyable movie in my opinion.

The prequels are a lot worse in my opinion. Some of the plot points in those movies seemed too forced and a lot of characters were annoying and awkward. They don't even seem like real movies to me. Too much cgi, bad acting (maybe due to bad writing), and too many things on the screen in the chase and fight sequences. Still, I'm able to enjoy them somewhat but overall they're too annoying for my taste.

[Alan_Grant]

Originally Posted by Arawn

He's vulnerable to magic.

Okay, so he's a little less omnipotent than Rey. Congrats.

She has training? According to who?

I've seen tons of fans claiming she "clearly has prior training" and to wait for the next movie to see where they take her...because clearly, I should wait for the next movie to enjoy the one in front of me.

He doesn't objectively suck or annoy, in the sense that this is the first time I've heard anyone say that.

So, because this is the first time you've read (not heard, btw) someone say that, he doesn't suck? Well he does suck, and he did annoy me.

His comedy lines are not objectively unfunny, as various people have said that they liked them, including some people here.

Oh! So because people here have said they like him, that means others don't dislike him! Gotcha. Well in that case, yeah, you're right, because the thumbs up scene was just so god damned hilarious, as was "we'll just use the force." I was in literal tears because it was SO FUNNY. I guess- to avoid upsetting you, we should all just write and start every post with "well in my opinion.."

He doesn't come off as a misguided attempt to cater to young children. He doesn't speak in high-pitched baby-talk while cribbing lines from the Olsen twins on "Full House". He doesn't juggle, pratfall, or step in shit.

You're right, he comes off as a misguided attempt at a torn hero on both sides, who wants to do the right thing but is too much of a pussbag to do it. What did he do in the movie? What is his purpose? He's not a force user (but apparently all it takes is someone to pick up a lightsaber and look at Kylo Ren's ***** ass to master the force), not a pilot, but a sanitation worker / TRAITOR!!!11!!! Everything about his character is an essay in bad writing 101. Show, don't tell. We are TOLD he has potential to be a great leader, TOLD he is at the top of his class...but instead presented with a total doofus, doubling as the comedic relief.

The comparison sucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTem0Q7Nk0Q

Originally Posted by Hardback247

As far as I'm concerned, a true Star Wars fan would always give the prequels and The Force Awakens the benefit of the doubt, and not resort to immature "worst movies ever" rants. As Eric Idle says, "Always look on the bright side of life."

A) Anytime I see someone say "a true ____ fan would..." pisses me off. Do I buy the merchandise? Do I own the film(s?) Did I pay to see it in theater? Do I enjoy discussing the series, both likes and dislikes? Then I am a true fan.

B) I don't recall anywhere in my post calling TFA the worst movie ever. This is a forum, a movie forum at that, where people discuss...movies. Don't like what I have to say? It's easy to ignore. Hell, that one guy with the Nathan Fillion avvy does nothing but talk shit about Lucas and the PT...and we all ignore him, for the most part.

C) It has been 17 years since TPM, 14 since AOTC, and 11 since ROTS. People will piss and moan over movies they hate, even if they are 200 years old.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I really don't think they're relying on you reading the books or anything, they're just leaving some mystery for the future episodes to fill in. Episode IV did the same thing back in '77 really, it's not like we met the Emperor right away or knew what happened to Vader or whatever else. The series has always had a "picking up in the middle" kind of feel. Also Rey is good at everything without training because that's a Jedi thing, Anakin and Luke were the same.

Agreed about how the other films work-- the original Star Wars really did drop you in the middle, and it did definitely leave cliff-hangers and story points open-ended for future installments (hello Vader flying away!). The only reason it feels the most "standalone" overall is probably because it was made with the uncertainty that it would be successful enough for Lucas to make the others.

As for Rey, I had thought it was a given and pretty clear that unlike Luke, this wasn't really her first rodeo using the Force. I was surprised to see people arguing "Mary Sue" and why she picked up everything too fast. It's definitely something that was done very specifically that relates to her character, which I'm sure we'll find more about in VIII and IX.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

What did he do in the movie?

Did you fall asleep or something?

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Okay, so he's a little less omnipotent than Rey.

I didn't see her flying around, shooting laser beams out of her eyes, and deflecting bullets with her muscles. But to be fair, I haven't watched the deleted scenes yet.

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

I've seen tons of fans claiming she "clearly has prior training"

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Kylo: "yea, I'm pissed so I'll just destroy this floating space station, keeping me alive."




Superman is not a compelling character to me, he never has been, never will be. Not the comic books, not Donner's attempt, not Singer's, and certainly not Snyder's. He is an overrated, overpowered god-like character, who has no inherent flaws. Very much (!) like Rey. Also, outside of them both being shitty god-like characters, the comparison is somewhat moot. Luke, and even Anakin had to undergo several trials in the movies to gain power. Rey, well "she has training and in the books and the future movies it'll be explained." A future movie, and needing to read a novel is not, and should never be a pre-requisite to watching the film in front of me.



He is annoying. He sucks. He has lines of "comedic relief" that were anything but. The comparison is an apt one to me.

Any takers?

You have a different idea of what whining is than I and probably most people do. "IT's not fair" "Why can't I..." , "Why won't they... " "It's so unfair..." etc.

Like I said, Superman has been a very attractive and compelling story for twice as long as Star Wars has been around. And the god mythologies that inspired it have endured for millenia. It's not your cup of tea, OK. But this idea that it's an objective storytelling no-no for anyone to possess god-like qualities is balls.

People keep going on about how compelling previous films were due to the trials. They were (for the most part) compelling due to the drama, the surprise and the delight. What surprises me is that so many people who seem to know how confrontations in these movies are supposed to play out based purely on training and experience weren't at least surprised. And they are not moved to rationalise that surprise. (Hey! Maybe we don't know everything about the force yet.) It's as if they are resentful that they could not predict the outcome of Rey and Ren's battle.

I don't know what you're talking about in relation to the novel. I don't really care about the novel. Star Wars is movies first and last.

I must have been imagining that the audience were laughing along the jokes in the film. Particularly Finn's ordeals. I don't remember anyone laughing at Jar Jar. If Jar Jar had made a tenth of the contribution to the plot, emotional story and the seeming subtext as Finn does then Jar Jar might have been a slightly tolerable character, through gritted teeth.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

There were tons of practical effects done for the prequels, and yet everyone likes to think that most of it was CGI. I don't know why. http://boards.theforce.net/threads/p...-etc.50017310/

Puppet Yoda >>> CGI Yoda

[Hardback247]

The Phantom Menace also had many parallels to A New Hope:

Female that is royalty (Leia/Padme)

Skywalker from Tatooine

A Jedi taking Skywalker off of Tatooine

Skywalker helping the female character

A Sith Lord after the female character

A climactic space battle

The Elderly Jedi getting killed by said Sith

Ending celebration


Why are people even complaining about The Force Awakens for doing what the franchise has always done?

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Why are people even complaining about The Force Awakens for doing what the franchise has always done?

Because a haters gonna hate.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Because a haters gonna hate.

That's dumb.

[Galactus123]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

All movies should be 16x9.

Movies aren't filmed to fit your TV screen. They are for cinemas.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The Phantom Menace also had many parallels to A New Hope:

Female that is royalty (Leia/Padme)

Skywalker from Tatooine

A Jedi taking Skywalker off of Tatooine

Skywalker helping the female character

A Sith Lord after the female character

A climactic space battle

The Elderly Jedi getting killed by said Sith

Ending celebration


Why are people even complaining about The Force Awakens for doing what the franchise has always done?

I think it's in combination with the whole thing just feeling a bit boring and unimaginative - very much a case of Disney casting a wide net, playing it safe in almost every regard. The prequels featured a lot of original ideas, even being as flawed and in some places straight-up horrible as they are.

Fwiw, I think the only real risk Disney took (but arguably the biggest) was having so little of the old crew in it. Luke Skywalker appearing for about a minute only is still kinda absurd to me.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

I think it's in combination with the whole thing just feeling a bit boring and unimaginative - very much a case of Disney casting a wide net, playing it safe in almost every regard. The prequels featured a lot of original ideas, even being as flawed and in some places straight-up horrible as they are.

Fwiw, I think the only real risk Disney took (but arguably the biggest) was having so little of the old crew in it. Luke Skywalker appearing for about a minute only is still kinda absurd to me.

As far as I can tell, it's almost impossible to tell what certain vocal members of the hardcore fanbase want. The prequels didn't satisfy them, and The Force Awakens isn't satisfying them. What do they want??

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton

I think it's in combination with the whole thing just feeling a bit boring and unimaginative - very much a case of Disney casting a wide net, playing it safe in almost every regard. The prequels featured a lot of original ideas, even being as flawed and in some places straight-up horrible as they are.

Fwiw, I think the only real risk Disney took (but arguably the biggest) was having so little of the old crew in it. Luke Skywalker appearing for about a minute only is still kinda absurd to me.

I think having Luke appear only at the end for less than a minute with no lines was one of the best decisions they made. Seeing that in the theater gave me chills and made me excited about seeing the rest of the story! It was one of the most effective endings I've ever seen!

[Arawn]

I feel like it's fallout from other decisions they made.

[Hardback247]

Why is it apparently so much easier to be negative than to be positive, especially when it comes to Star Wars?

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Why is it apparently so much easier to be negative than to be positive, especially when it comes to Star Wars?

A lot of people lack a positive outlook on life, and they want others to feel as miserable as they feel.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

A lot of people lack a positive outlook on life, and they want others to feel as miserable as they feel.

I, for one, am an optimist.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

As far as I can tell, it's almost impossible to tell what certain vocal members of the hardcore fanbase want. The prequels didn't satisfy them, and The Force Awakens isn't satisfying them. What do they want??

The problem is you're looking at it as "The Fanbase" as if it was a single entity that is unified in their opinions about Star Wars. Star Wars is one of the biggest cultural phenomenons that will ever exist pertaining to films and stories, and the fanbase is huge.

I've seen a lot of people that love the prequels bashing Force Awakens, and Force Awakens fans praising it for bringing Star Wars back from the dead and everything in between. There's at least one member here (I can't recall who) who only really likes the original Star Wars as a standalone film. Then there's people who vehemently defend The Phantom Menace as a misunderstood work of genius.

Opinions are naturally going to be all over the place for something like Star Wars. As for anyone that hates everything past Empire? Uh... maybe they'll like Rogue One?

[Hardback247]

Not only does Simon Pegg still vehemently hate the prequels after almost 20 years, but he says that he has absolutely no respect for those who like them. He even thinks of the prequels as exercises in utter infanticide! Wow. That is harsh. You'd think a 46-year-old man would at least try to act his age. People are allowed to have their opinions. He doesn't have to be a complete dick about it.