Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

And yet the vast majority of critics and moviegoers still enjoyed it for what it was.

Fine. I've never said other people can't enjoy it for what it is, but their opinions won't make me enjoy it any more, will they?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

But the battle should have been very one-sided, with the Ewoks in their superior numbers falling in battle and buying time for the rebel team to destroy the shield.

It was Lucas's nod the Vietnam War where a group lacking in industry and technology face far superior forces. It would have played far better if Ewoks were replaced by Wookies or the Ewoks were Wookie children and the adults turned up to finish the job during the battle. But I've never had a problem with the Ewoks.

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

I've never heard anything but good things about Lethal Weapon 2, particularly in the context of a series that subsequently became the very definition of "the gang's all here" form of diminishing returns.

In hindsight after Lethal Weapon a lot of people saw Lethal Weapon 2 as a disappointment, it's basically an adult Looney Tunes live-action movie compared to the first. There's a massive shift in tone.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think I need to see it one more time after a proper marathon of the other movies, to see if it can at least ride the wave of happiness that those flicks (certain PT aspects included) elicit from me.

It will be interesting to see how The Force Awakens plays before Episode VIII in future marathons.

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by balthazar_bee

I've never heard anything but good things about Lethal Weapon 2, particularly in the context of a series that subsequently became the very definition of "the gang's all here" form of diminishing returns.

But if anything, I'd say Temple of Doom's reputation has been holding steady at "pretty damn solid but not Raiders" for the last couple of decades.

Granted, when it first came out it was largely reviled, but there too, subsequent sequels have helped us to appreciate its strengths. I mean, the next two films were trying so hard to be Raiders, they put Temple's OTT kinetic energy and willingness to be dark and different in a more favourable context.

I didn't care for it myself when I saw it theatrically. But I was 4, and totally pining for Raiders Redux. Seeing it on video ten years later was a completely different experience.

Good, but not Raiders sounds right to me. I got to see a Tuesday double feature in my nearby drive in with the newTemple of Doom release and the re-release of the Animated Lord of the Rings. I really liked Temple...I even really liked the arcade game that showed up in all the Tilts with the whips and mine carts! the LOTR cartoon was unbearable though : /

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think that's EXACTLY it: a great deal of the film trades on the OT nostalgia rather than deliver a truly compelling tale, so if the nostalgia is lost on the viewer (guilty as charged, because for me Star Wars never went away) then the thin gruel offered up as a 'story' is badly exposed. If one goes along for the ride then it's fine, but if you've been on this ride several times before (not just in Star Wars but JJ's other space franchise) it's not quite so much of a rush.

I think I need to see it one more time after a proper marathon of the other movies, to see if it can at least ride the wave of happiness that those flicks (certain PT aspects included) elicit from me.

I think watching it in a marathon right now will make me like it even less! For me, it's 8 and 9 that will make it click into place. Hopefully then, it'll work better in a marathon. But I think I'll always feel like there's a missing trilogy or film between 6 and 7 regardless, which I don't feel like between 3 and 4.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

I can't relate that to the film I saw at all.

Maybe it's one of those issues where one's feelings depend on whether your Star Wars experience started with the OT or the PT? I saw the OT films as a kid, and for me TFA (while not without flaws) was such a welcome return to the tone of those originals, after the truly awful PTs. To me, they were the films that were vapid and emotionless (despite the histrionics).

Not for me, I was 7 when Star Wars came out and lived and breathed it for 6 years until Jedi. I love all 7 films, some more than others but I'd watch any of the prequels before Jedi by choice.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Amano

Max Rebo alone was better than ANYTHING George Lucas came up with in the Prequels.

Max Rebo was better than Duel of Fates or the Seismic Charges chase? Better than the undersea city reveal and the Opera Lightshow Ballet thingie?

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Even in its worst moments, TFA is better and has more heart than the best moments of the prequels

I love TFA, I really do but it has its slower, clunkier moments too. For instance, try as I might I still can't seem to warm up to the whole bit on the freighter when the gundarks or rancors or whatever the hell they were hauling turned everything into a brief bit o' Big Screen Star Trek.

Those clunkier moments don't hold a candle to some of the cooler stuff in the prequels.

They just don't.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Not for me, I was 7 when Star Wars came out and lived and breathed it for 6 years until Jedi. I love all 7 films, some more than others.

Exactly how I feel. The SW franchise, IMO, is unlike any other franchise as it's been with me my entire life. Sure some entries, in the franchise, are better than others but as a whole I enjoy them all. Even better I will get to repeat the whole process with both my sons.
Bring on Rogue One and VIII please!

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

I can't relate that to the film I saw at all.

Maybe it's one of those issues where one's feelings depend on whether your Star Wars experience started with the OT or the PT? I saw the OT films as a kid, and for me TFA (while not without flaws) was such a welcome return to the tone of those originals, after the truly awful PTs. To me, they were the films that were vapid and emotionless (despite the histrionics).

A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were the only Stars Wars movies I knew for 20 years until the prequels came out in 99, 02 and 05.

The force awakens did nothing but ruin a great legacy.

[JasonHensley]

Does anyone find is amusing that people can complain about TFA for not explaining every story detail that had happened in the galaxy since RotJ, yet, praise the PT? The PT is full of major unfulfilled plot threads with no explanations for many details. That was with 3 movies to tell a story. Now people are seriously bashing TFA because it didn't explain everything? Wow.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were the only Stars Wars movies I knew for 20 years until the prequels came out in 99, 02 and 05.

The force awakens did nothing but ruin a great legacy.

Ruin, restore, tomayto, tomahto...

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were the only Stars Wars movies I knew for 20 years until the prequels came out in 99, 02 and 05.

The force awakens did nothing but ruin a great legacy.

The legacy was ruined in 1997 with the special editions! The only Star Wars release I have bought of the original trilogy is the Best Buy DVD tin box containing the 2004 special editions and the theatrical versions on bonus discs. I will never buy these movie again unless the original versions are released on Blu-ray. I don't mind if they keep the "Episode IV A New Hope" crawl since that was added in 1981 I think (so it was on all the VHS releases), and I won't fuss if they use some digital manipulation like removing matte lines, etc. I just want to watch them as I did as a kid and not have any noticeable changes!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...but their opinions won't make me enjoy it any more, will they?

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by spanky87

The changes in Jedi are way too severe to ignore, it's unwatchable. I think the special edition and 2011 versions are partly to blame for that film's declining reputation over the years. I'll defend the theatrical cut of Jedi for life. Flawed for sure, but still a rousing trilogy closer.

If your blu-ray player has a USB port then you can watch Despecialized via hard drive or flash drive instead of burning a disc. Though I much prefer Team Negative1's 35mm film scans of Star Wars & ESB, and Harmy's 35mm LPP of Return of the Jedi. It's pure film without the noticeable (at times) rotoscoping of the Despecialzed editions.

P.S. Eps 4-7 are all 5 star for me in terms of how much nostalgia and entertainment value I get out of them, but 4 & 5 are the only two I can objectively say are 5 star films.

There's a Team Negative1 scan of Empire Strikes Back? I thought they've only done Star Wars so far.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by octagon

Ruin, restore, tomayto, tomahto...

It is interesting how divided people are on TFA on these boards. Personally I loved the film but I don't think we'll really know how these films will affect the context of Star Wars as a whole until we've seen how the entire trilogy plays out, plus a few of these standalone films.

Personally, I thought the entire Star Wars brand has been damaged since the prequel trilogy, so there's really nowhere to go but up. Obviously prequel fans will disagree but I look at The Force Awakens as steering the ship back after being off course for 15 years.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by octagon

Max Rebo was better than Duel of Fates or the Seismic Charges chase? Better than the undersea city reveal and the Opera Lightshow Ballet thingie?



I love TFA, I really do but it has its slower, clunkier moments too. For instance, try as I might I still can't seem to warm up to the whole bit on the freighter when the gundarks or rancors or whatever the hell they were hauling turned everything into a brief bit o' Big Screen Star Trek.

Those clunkier moments don't hold a candle to some of the cooler stuff in the prequels.

They just don't.

That bit does feel out of place, doesn't it? Yeah, people will say "but Star Wars has a history of monsters!" and that's very, very true but it's the style of the sequence, it feels like a conspicuous JJ set-piece than it does something truly Star Warsy.

[Mighty Max]

I see people say that the force awakens is a return to form after the prequels.
Fine, except it really doesn't fit if watching them in story order.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Does anyone find is amusing that people can complain about TFA for not explaining every story detail that had happened in the galaxy since RotJ, yet, praise the PT? The PT is full of major unfulfilled plot threads with no explanations for many details. That was with 3 movies to tell a story. Now people are seriously bashing TFA because it didn't explain everything? Wow.

I actually thought the prequels gave too much detail and world-building. These movies work better when they focus on the plot, not the world-building, IMO. Even Star Trek, renowned for being a world people love as much as a show, gives very little detail about the workings of the Federation and the different species and whatnot.

With all due respect to people like Geoff who disagree, Force Awakens feeling like a movie that picks up in the middle of the world plot to tell a personal story about Rey, Finn and Han is maybe the MOST Star Wars thing about it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I actually thought the prequels gave too much detail and world-building. These movies work better when they focus on the plot, not the world-building, IMO. Even Star Trek, renowned for being a world people love as much as a show, gives very little detail about the workings of the Federation and the different species and whatnot.

With all due respect to people like Geoff who disagree, Force Awakens feeling like a movie that picks up in the middle of the world plot to tell a personal story about Rey, Finn and Han is maybe the MOST Star Wars thing about it.

Sure, I get where you're coming from. It's not like the original film didn't launch us smack-bang into the middle of this galactic civil war with just the opening crawl to prime us, but the key there is that the rest of the film didn't scrimp on the backstory. It didn't explain EEEEEEEEEVERYTHING (and even if it did, Lucas would've retconned some of it anyway ) but it established plenty of little titbits to set the scene regarding various aspects of how the universe was then and how it is now.

TFA doesn't do that, it just fast-forwards 30 years and gives us next to nothing about the state of the galaxy beyond what's in the crawl, like where the First Order have sprung from and who's bankrolling them, why the officially titled Resistance is a separate entity to the Republic etc etc. But hey, why go to the bother of putting that stuff into the movie when you can fill that shit in with various novels and whatnot? To their credit they did at least film something that addressed the Republic issue (I think it's in the deleted scenes on the new edition?) but as it didn't end up in the film it disnae count!

[edit] If the PT was sunk by the world-building - which I definitely agree with, Lucas bit off way more than he could chew - and the ST (so far) doesn't give a toss about it, then the OT is the porridge that's juuuuuuuust right: it had a damned near perfect balance of story and world-building. Cynics would say "well, that's because it had to establish the world of SW, being the start of this entire franchise" but that still doesn't change how well those movies handled such things IMO ("certain points of view" aside).

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

I see people say that the force awakens is a return to form after the prequels.
Fine, except it really doesn't fit if watching them in story order.

The prequels don't fit no matter how you watch them.

[stvn1974]

I hope Leia turns out to be Rey's mother. She just forgot about giving birth to her. Still wouldn't be a stupid as Luke and Leia's birth and Leia remembering Padme.