Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Tru-way]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

And without the super silly lava jumping at the end.

You take that back! you know how many ballerina classes Mcgregor and Chritensen had to take to nail those majestic hops?

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still love me some Sithy goodness but yes, the focus of the PT should've been the Clone Wars from the start.

I do sort of agree, but I also think George was trying start the story during a period of relative piece, which I actually like, then the war happens later. I think TPM could have ended like AOTC with the Clones going into battle, or simply have planted a few seeds for Ep2 to open with them in full swing, explained in the crawl.

Ep1 could have mentioned the Clone army being created or ordered (but not shown), and hinted at the impending threat of the separatists. Then BOOM, Ep2 starts during the war, with the Clone army and Jedi as soldiers etc. I don't think anyone would have had a problem with that. The love plot, and general story could have played out much the same, but with a grander backdrop allowing more time for the important stuff.

Also, Anakin could have been found when he was about 16 in Ep 1 (if George still wanted that story introduction), so still young enough to be somewhat innocent, but allowing for a stronger relationship with Padme and Obi-wan and importantly using the same actor.

I get what George was going for by using this innocent 10 year old kid as Anakin, but I'm sure everything would have worked just as well, and better, using a 16 or so year old. The bond with his mother, virgin birth, simple home life, his personality, none of that would have been affected. But then maybe the jump to a full Jedi Padawan in Ep 2 during war time would have been too big a leap after only 3 years or so?

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Han moved head, but the laser would have missed him anyway. It was a warning shot. It is clear on the bluray that he moved with the way he shot Greedo and punished him for not shooting to kill.

Why would someone fire a warning shot so close to the target? Has Lucas confirmed it was a warning shot?

[Mighty Max]

I said fire a warning shot across her nose, not UP it!

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why would someone fire a warning shot so close to the target? Has Lucas confirmed it was a warning shot?

Someone that wants to get money or ship by intimidating! Greedo actuslly stated it clearly.

If a shot is fired that close and it misses, why is it assumed to be on purpose?

The shot would have missed with or without solo leaning to make sure he hits intended target. That is pretty obvious to me. Also it is a more streamline of Han's character to align with the three films as I have described.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

While I conceded that he meant bilogical mother, I was proposing the idea that someone knowing her situation could be saying the real mother is the one that raised you vs the one that just popped you out and did nothing more.

While being conceivably possible that adults might misuse and/or misinterpret mother vs real mother, it is extremely unlikely in the context of Luke and Leia's conversation and the only reason you seem to be suggesting it is to maintain a rather loose argument.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I do sort of agree, but I also think George was trying start the story during a period of relative piece, which I actually like, then the war happens later. I think TPM could have ended like AOTC with the Clones going into battle, or simply have planted a few seeds for Ep2 to open with them in full swing, explained in the crawl.

Ep1 could have mentioned the Clone army being created or ordered (but not shown), and hinted at the impending threat of the separatists. Then BOOM, Ep2 starts during the war, with the Clone army and Jedi as soldiers etc. I don't think anyone would have had a problem with that. The love plot, and general story could have played out much the same, but with a grander backdrop allowing more time for the important stuff.

Also, Anakin could have been found when he was about 16 in Ep 1 (if George still wanted that story introduction), so still young enough to be somewhat innocent, but allowing for a stronger relationship with Padme and Obi-wan and importantly using the same actor.

I get what George was going for by using this innocent 10 year old kid as Anakin, but I'm sure everything would have worked just as well, and better, using a 16 or so year old. The bond with his mother, virgin birth, simple home life, his personality, none of that would have been affected. But then maybe the jump to a full Jedi Padawan in Ep 2 during war time would have been too big a leap after only 3 years or so?

Yeah, starting off in peacetime is fine but Ep I should've ended with the Clone Wars starting, then Ep II as a war movie and Ep III pretty much as it is now. And I agree about Anakin, he should've been older and with the right casting they could've used the same actor for all three films.

[ParkerAL]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Someone that wants to get money or ship by intimidating! Greedo actuslly stated it clearly.

If a shot is fired that close and it misses, why is it assumed to be on purpose?

The shot would have missed with or without solo leaning to make sure he hits intended target. That is pretty obvious to me. Also it is a more streamline of Han's character to align with the three films as I have described.

It looks like it would miss because the editing of that scene is poorly done, not because of any narrative reason.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Martoto

While being conceivably possible that adults might misuse and/or misinterpret mother vs real mother, it is extremely unlikely in the context of Luke and Leia's conversation and the only reason you seem to be suggesting it is to maintain a rather loose argument.

Didn't I say I conceded? I believe he meant real mother now that I studied scene and "images" works for me.

My comment was in regards to step parents and my experience. Nothing loose about that argument. Matter of fact, it is quite common when people dedscribe dead beat dads that skip out on child support and raising kids. The real dad is the one that is there for them and is often described that way.

Originally Posted by ParkerAL

It looks like it would miss because the editing of that scene is poorly done, not because of any narrative reason.

Not really. It isn't even close. I think you underestimate what Lucas wanted vs what fans wanted.

He described the John Wayne mentality as I did. Look, I understand, fans think they own the material because they grew up seeing it one way.

However, I also understand a director who has made many changes because of being grossly underbudgeted may not like the finished product. For the reason he stated, I understand. The narrative as I laid out is an explanation. Just as the step parent could be as well. No one truly knows. The film works either way.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I think you underestimate what Lucas wanted vs what fans wanted.

Lucas filmed the Han/Greedo scene exactly the way he wanted to film it.

Then years later he changed his mind and modified the scene.

The modification sucked.

That's the long and the short of it.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by octagon

Lucas filmed the Han/Greedo scene exactly the way he wanted to film it.

Then years later he changed his mind and modified the scene.

The modification sucked.

That's the long and the short of it.

If George changed it, how does that equate to exactly how he wanted? George spent tons of his own money making those changes. I think the creator has just a little more authority.

I have two preferences. 1 original Star Wars film, or if there is to be a Greedo shot, the 6 film version. Just like the myriad of other changes since Star Wars series inception.

What always baffles is me are two annoyances that fans make.

A. Han shot first. No, originally Han was the only one that shot at alll. First implies second. The t-shirts are idiotic.

B. Greedo missed which makes him inept. Actually he could have missed on purpose not knowing the gun un holstered. Hand in air from Han makes an annoyance for someone with a gun. Perhaps Greedo wants to bring Han to Jabba knowing he is RIGHT OUTSIDE in new version. What is absolutely certain is Han wouldn't have been hit with the shot that was fired...head "dodge" or not.

The new bluray versions are an alternate versions that I feel are not "shitty", but rather a more accurate rendition of the artist current intent.

But of course some fans will never understand that, and will never even try.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

If George changed it, how does that equate to exactly how he wanted?

If he had originally wanted Greedo to get a shot off then Greedo would have gotten a shot off. The notion that Lucas was somehow prevented from having Greedo get a shot off by budgetary or technological constraints is ridiculous.

And Lucas' post hoc rationalization to the effect of 'well, it was always supposed to look this way but the camera angle was wrong' is equally absurd.

He changed his mind. That's all there is to it.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

But of course some fans will never understand that, and will never even try.

We completely understand that Greedo getting a shot off is how Lucas now wants that scene to play out.

We just think it's stupid.

[crissrudd4554]

Lets not forget the interview he did 3 or 4 years where he said Greedo had always shot first. All the confusion was spun by the fact that the original had been cut together in closeups. Ok I admit some fans take their anger towards Lucas a little too seriously at times but seriously I'll never forget reading that and saying 'dude you are such a liar!' I thought so then and still do now. Not to mention Peter Mayhew has basically rebunked that claim when he posted the script excerpt of that scene on his Twitter.

[Mighty Max]

Is Gary Kurtz still around?

[Ernest Rister]

So easily solved...

HAN
Yes, I bet you have.

CUT TO
BLAM! Bystanders at the Cantina turn in alarm, hearing two loud shots of blaster fire!!

CUT TO
Greedo, chest smoldering, face-plants on the table. Dead.

Han holsters his blaster, the wall crackling and smoking behind him from Greedo's missed shot.

----

Easy peezy. Same thing with Han stepping on Jabba's tail. Just cutaway to a reaction, the audience will put it together.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

Is Gary Kurtz still around?

Oh of course. George got rid of him like so many others

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by octagon

If he had originally wanted Greedo to get a shot off then Greedo would have gotten a shot off. The notion that Lucas was somehow prevented from having Greedo get a shot off by budgetary or technological constraints is ridiculous.

So you don't think someone could film one way because they are budgeting for one film to be the whole story and they are just happy to have a film be a success, but then later things change because there is more reaction to the art?

Ok, we can just agree to disagree on this.

Of course there are tons of examples where he changed what he did (even before the special editions), and it is obvious that he modified scenes to go with a bigger vision.

And Lucas' post hoc rationalization to the effect of 'well, it was always supposed to look this way but the camera angle was wrong' is equally absurd.

He changed his mind. That's all there is to it.

I have never understood what he meant by his statement. When it comes to artists they speak in riddles and that goes all the way to Kubrick. When he says the shot was wider, I am not putting off the possibility that in his head it is a wider shot of his imagination.

Lucas is a liar, or does he have "arteeeeest" syndrome. I am not judging.

We completely understand that Greedo getting a shot off is how Lucas now wants that scene to play out.

We just think it's stupid.

Yeah I get you think its "stupid", but I think the warning shot at the level of his hand is a "John Wayne" explanation as Lucas puts it.

While I don't think it changes Han that much from the love sick puppy he is in ESB and RTOJ, it certainly changes what he is from the original Star Wars film. To me, it now makes more sense, but I think we have gone over that.

I admit fully I don't aspire to the "we" crowd. This implies that this so called majority is right when it basically is the rapid fan elitist group that thinks they represent joe public who in most cases couldn't care less (judging by sales).

I think this "we" crowd is also part of the group that thinks Star Wars is inferior to Empire Strikes Back or that the Road Warrior is superior to Mad Max or Godfather II is superior to Godfather or T2 is superior to Terminator....etc.

I will happily never be a part of that crowd. And the same goes for understanding what Lucas intended with that change that he only refined with later changes. I appreciate what he did, and wish he could have done more. The only thing that I didn't like, is him making sure the original film negative wasn't easily available so we can compare the differences.

Star Wars as one movie will always destroy all 7 (8..9..12...) films to me, because it stands as a statement that is even marred by the inferior Empire Strikes Back.

By the way, as an update, I still can't believe how many fans cry "Han shot first...Han shot first!!!!!". And again, clever ones, Han was the only one that shot at all as far as I can tell (without the wider shot because all we see is the smoke and nothing more).

[rickah88]

What is it with this thread and forum members named "Elvis"?

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by rickah88

What is it with this thread and forum members named "Elvis"?

That was uncalled for. I will bow out now. I thought it was a good discussion and I tried to bring something new to the table. I will not post anymore on this subject.

[Ernest Rister]

George Lucas:

“Han Solo was going to marry Leia, and you look back and say, ‘Should he be a cold-blooded killer?’” Lucas asks. “Because I was thinking mythologically—should he be a cowboy, should he be John Wayne? And I said, ‘Yeah, he should be John Wayne.’ And when you’re John Wayne, you don’t shoot people [first]—you let them have the first shot. It’s a mythological reality that we hope our society pays attention to.”

I don't know what westerns Lucas has been watching, but in about five billion of them, the good guy lets the bad guy DRAW first, not SHOOT first. In the case of the original Star Wars, Greedo has the drop on Solo and has drawn his weapon. According to American westerns, that's ballgame. Greedo then tells Solo he's going to kill him, and starts gasbagging, giving Solo time to take him out.

John Wayne waits for bad guys to shoot first? Um...

Best John Wayne Movie Quotes - YouTube