Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

The 6 films don't make sense in their unaltered form. When I see Shaw after seeing the prequels, I think...who is that old dude? When you see him behind the mask it is forgiveable because most of his face is blocked.

Explain then how fans for over 20 years were able to watch that film and weren't confused by Shaw's ghost???? Shaw as Anakin is literally the only time Anakin is shown in the OT and honestly it's pretty easy to put two and two together when we saw the elderly man behind Vader's mask pass on and then his spirit appear next to Obi-Wan and Yoda. I honestly don't see how watching the PT first will make this difficult. Anakin was redeemed at the end and died a good elderly man so him taking spirit form as an old man is still plausible.

To each his own but I don't actually feel the PT references to the OT add consistency as much as people think. Let's be honest. How many PT references were actually added?? Hayden's ghost, McDiarmid as Palpatine in Empire (I know in ways this doesn't count since he plays Palpatine in Jedi but I consider it a PT reference), Morrison's voice as Boba Fett, dug in Jabba's palace, Naboo in celebration montage, Vader's NOOO. I'm sure there's more but those are definitely the biggies but honestly how much do they actually make the OT more consistent with the PT that wasn't consistent before?? Not much if you ask me. Yes it definitely shows its all the same universe but the storyline's are still very much the same regardless of which version you are watching. There's still inconsistencies even with the films in their altered forms. Its never established in the PT that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber!

[cgpublic]

Originally Posted by svenge

In the end, the lack of collaborative support is the core reason behind ROTJ being seen universally as the lowest-regarded OT film. Because of that, even if the PT were made in the late '80s - early '90s it still would have been just as bad.

As someone who has spent his entire career in a creative field, even the best and brightest will be challenged without the benefit of an open, often unsparing, collaborative environment. The masses love the myth of the singular creative genius, but the reality is often quite different.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by svenge

He had already purged all the people who helped make ANH and TESB the successes that they were

You mean like Lawrence Kasdan?

[PeterTHX]

With the exception of the Vader trip to the Executor breaking the rhythm of the final chase I don't see how people can really object to the SE of Empire. Bespin is actually a city in the clouds now, not just a bunch of nondescript white hallways. The recomposites of the snow battle get rid of the distracting transparencies. Ian McDiarmid replaced monkey eyes woman...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Arawn

You mean like Lawrence Kasdan?

He also apparently dumped ILM, Skywalker Sound, Hyuck/Katz, etc...

[rexcrk]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

With the exception of the Vader trip to the Executor breaking the rhythm of the final chase

You know what the worst part about that is?

He lands on the freaking Death Star 2! It makes absolutely zero sense and it's such an unnecessary addition lol.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

With the exception of the Vader trip to the Executor breaking the rhythm of the final chase I don't see how people can really object to the SE of Empire. Bespin is actually a city in the clouds now, not just a bunch of nondescript white hallways. The recomposites of the snow battle get rid of the distracting transparencies. Ian McDiarmid replaced monkey eyes woman...

The changes in Empire certainly made more sense compared to the other two movies all in all, but that exception you note of Vader's shuttle and arriving is a negative that outweighs any of the positive changes. Horrible editing at such a crucial, thrilling part of the movie.

[StingingVelvet]

One reason I loved Bobba was his cool voice, so the new voice kills me. I'd watch the OG version just for that if both were offered.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

One reason I loved Bobba was his cool voice, so the new voice kills me. I'd watch the OG version just for that if both were offered.

Forgot about that - yes, for sure.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Go track down the laserdiscs or limited editions if you must. Good luck with that.

They're sitting right behind me. Laserdisc player is in the living room, connected to my 7.1 system. "Good luck with that". Don't need any luck.

[frogmort]

This thread reminds me of this scene from 'Planes, Trains, & Automobiles', on both sides, and I'm including my own opinions in here too:

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Explain then how fans for over 20 years were able to watch that film and weren't confused by Shaw's ghost???? Shaw as Anakin is literally the only time Anakin is shown in the OT and honestly it's pretty easy to put two and two together when we saw the elderly man behind Vader's mask pass on and then his spirit appear next to Obi-Wan and Yoda. I honestly don't see how watching the PT first will make this difficult. Anakin was redeemed at the end and died a good elderly man so him taking spirit form as an old man is still plausible.

I am going to say this yet again. WHEN SEEING THE 6 FILMS TOGETHER.

This has nothing to do with the unaltered OT.

The point is that you are expecting a younger audience to connect with a completely unrelated character. People need to use their imagination. Pretend just for second that you didn't see it unaltered. Now think if you saw Hadyn for all those films and now all of a sudden you have some old guy that you never saw before. Sure it might sorta work, but not as much as the Haydn ghost that directly harkens back to his happier time (complete with creepy look down).

I am not saying the original unaltered trilogy is any kind of issue (well except for things I pointed out before, but we won't go there again).

To each his own but I don't actually feel the PT references to the OT add consistency as much as people think. Let's be honest. How many PT references were actually added?? Hayden's ghost, McDiarmid as Palpatine in Empire (I know in ways this doesn't count since he plays Palpatine in Jedi but I consider it a PT reference), Morrison's voice as Boba Fett, dug in Jabba's palace, Naboo in celebration montage, Vader's NOOO. I'm sure there's more but those are definitely the biggies but honestly how much do they actually make the OT more consistent with the PT that wasn't consistent before?? Not much if you ask me. Yes it definitely shows its all the same universe but the storyline's are still very much the same regardless of which version you are watching. There's still inconsistencies even with the films in their altered forms. Its never established in the PT that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber!

Of course you don't think that way, because you aren't a new viewer. Seeing Haydn at the end is one of the single biggest connectors. If you watch in proper order without OT unaltered prejudice perhaps you may see it.

BUT if you don't, ok. I am not going to act like a little cry baby and insist you think exactly as I do. All those changes are significant and it helps a new viewer with little beats that paint a bigger picture...if you have an open mind.

As for Anakin wanting his lightsaber, didn't Obi Wan say that your father wanted you to have this? Deductive reasoning says that if Anakin knew he had a son than yes "he would have wanted you to have this(or something to that effect)" would not be far off base. Like hey kid, I found this neat coat your dad loved, instead of throwing it away I would think your dad would want you to have this as opposed to tossing it in the land fill without knowing what it is. Why does everything have to be spelled out?

Originally Posted by svenge

It's amazing to see a person who is so completely wrong on each and every point stated. Tell me, how is it like over there in Bizarro-world?

Wow talking about throwing a little fit. Next post will be Why So Blue. I bet I can guess what we be in his post.

@Ernest I am very happy for you. Though the Laserdisc isn't encoded in 7.1. While IIx may be kinda cute, the real version is the original 6 channel movie theater version which is back on the 70mm original film print.

The Laserdisc sound is ass and has been retooled. I used to own it. I say good luck to the people that want to find the inferior version.

[WhySoBlu?]

Posted on Dec 28th:

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

whysoblue,

You are trolling and you will be ignored from now on. Please do me a favor and do the same, I have nothing left to ever say to you.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Wow talking about throwing a little fit. Next post will be Why So Blue. I bet I can guess what we be in his post.

Never change, genesim.

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still don't know what I wanna be when I grow up.

I do. I want to be a dinosaur.

[Alan_Grant]

I am a huge fan of the Prequels...but that scene in question by Elvis is not confusing at all lol

[Ernest Rister]

Hayden Force Ghost - in concept - doesn't bother me. In fact, as a Catholic, I find it very moving. Could it have better execution? Sure. Jeez, maybe even a close up. Whatever. The world turns.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

@Ernest I am very happy for you. Though the Laserdisc isn't encoded in 7.1. While IIx may be kinda cute, the real version is the original 6 channel movie theater version which is back on the 70mm original film print.

The Laserdisc sound is ass and has been retooled. I used to own it. I say good luck to the people that want to find the inferior version.

It was the only way to hear A New Hope for years, because LucasFilm botched the mastering and the DVD flopped the surround tracks for John Williams' score. Rather than announce a replacement program, GET THIS! - LucasFilm tried to claim the flopped surround tracks were intentional.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I am going to say this yet again. WHEN SEEING THE 6 FILMS TOGETHER.

This has nothing to do with the unaltered OT.

The point is that you are expecting a younger audience to connect with a completely unrelated character. People need to use their imagination. Pretend just for second that you didn't see it unaltered. Now think if you saw Hadyn for all those films and now all of a sudden you have some old guy that you never saw before. Sure it might sorta work, but not as much as the Haydn ghost that directly harkens back to his happier time (complete with creepy look down).

I am not saying the original unaltered trilogy is any kind of issue (well except for things I pointed out before, but we won't go there again).

And I will say this. The storyline in the end is the same whether you watch all 6, or 7, with the OUT or not. Anakin was redeemed as an elderly man and it should not be difficult to piece together that it was he who was the elderly spirit who appeared beside Yoda and Obi-Wan at.

It even kinda harks back to how Obi-Wan describes Anakin as 'a good friend'. Those 'two good friends' have finally been reunited all grown up and the way Luke knew them. Luke did not know younger Anakin. Despite being scarred, Luke would still be able to recognize the elderly man behind the mask. It's the same reason why Obi-Wan and Yoda do not take on their younger appearances. Surely with the way they have joined the force they could have done so but thus they do not.

And plus, new fan or not, Hayden just looks out of place when placed next to the other two spirits who still appear in their advanced age even in spirit form. Not to mention the new generation will be introduced via the old generation. I'm not part of this bunch of the old generation but some of that old generation flat out hates the PT and thus there's a good chance some of that newer generation will only be introduced to the OT anyways, unaltered or not. In that case Hayden ghost is rather redundant. Plus even if the new generation does see the whole saga they may be introduced via release order which again makes Hayden ghost redundant.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Of course you don't think that way, because you aren't a new viewer. Seeing Haydn at the end is one of the single biggest connectors. If you watch in proper order without OT unaltered prejudice perhaps you may see it.

BUT if you don't, ok. I am not going to act like a little cry baby and insist you think exactly as I do. All those changes are significant and it helps a new viewer with little beats that paint a bigger picture...if you have an open mind.

As for Anakin wanting his lightsaber, didn't Obi Wan say that your father wanted you to have this? Deductive reasoning says that if Anakin knew he had a son than yes "he would have wanted you to have this(or something to that effect)" would not be far off base. Like hey kid, I found this neat coat your dad loved, instead of throwing it away I would think your dad would want you to have this as opposed to tossing it in the land fill without knowing what it is. Why does everything have to be spelled out?

He says 'Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough'. When was this established in ROTS?? Obi-Wan did not even discover that Anakin was the father until after he had joined the dark side and Order 66 had commenced.

And truthfully if I was to introduce someone to SW I would start with 4-6 not just cause of nostalgia but partly because compared to the PT they're a bit easier to follow, with or without the alterations. When I was about 12 or 13 I tried introducing my mother to SW and I started with 4-6 then I tried going back to 1-3 and she just got confused. So eventually I decided to start this over and go 1-3 first and she kept falling asleep yet the only one of the OT I remember her falling asleep during was ESB.

I too tried accepting the 1-6 narrative but as times gone on I've come to a conclusion. 4-6 works with or without 1-3 while 1-3 works best when put with 4-6. So as far as your 'open mind' comment goes I do have an open mind, a mind that respects that there is no right or wrong way to watch these movies. Each generation has been introduced to these films in various shapes or form. Fans of the past 15-20 years will likely like the PT best because its newer and faster and has the updated effects while fans before that can go either way. OUT or SE but its still 4-6 in the end. Point is I respect the PT for giving us the backstory to 4-6, as flawed as it may be, but I will choose my own order because I know I can.

Some even go in their own fancy order. When I was 10 I got the OUT on VHS in widescreen and I coudnt decide to go in release order or start with ESB because it was my favorite. I went with the latter. As long as I know the story what difference does it make what order I go in??? People dont have to go chronological just because Lucas prefers it. I prefer Hershey's without almonds but I'm not gonna grab and throw one that has almonds out of someone's hands and swap with one without it.

[Ernest Rister]

As long as I know the story what difference does it make what order I go in???

Wisdom.

Hey...where's my damn chocolate almond bar?

[cb1]

Originally Posted by Cedric T Sealion

Anyone who prefers the special editions to the theatrical cuts is ill as far as I'm concerned.

don't be a hater bro.