Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Let me ask you this. Did you REALLY think that the death of Palpatine wouldn't have ANY kind of negative long-term consequences for the people who followed him?

The atomic bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki MAY have ended World War II, but the very ethics of owning nuclear weapons and deciding what to do with them led into the early stages of the Cold War.

What were the last words of the mayor of hiroshima.

What was that noise ??

[KilljoyEX]

Just started watching the prequels of this set and wow the sound is really good. The DTS: Neural X upmix is really awesome. Wonder if they will get the 4K release soon with an Atmos mix that will top the DTS 6.1 mix (upmixed). I realize Disney just started releasing all of the movies by themselves and standard Blu-ray and digital copy. Not sure what the hold up is. Maybe they don’t want any stores to have discounts before Christmas to maximize profits

[DrWally]

" In fact ROTS established that there is a way to go beyond death. "

It's not as.clear in the movie as.it could have been, largely because Lucas dropped the ball by cutting the scene of Yoda communicating through the Force with Qui-Gon, but it's important to.understand that the movie's main thematic point was that to go beyond death through the Force is a state achieved through compassion rather than greed. As such, it could never be learned by the Sith.

As to how Palpatine is able to return, well consider this - Star Wars often morphs itself into other genres, and if Attack of the Clones is a romantic epic, Rogue One is a war movie and Solo is a Western, then you may have a clue by looking at the trailer and costume design for ROTS so far. To me, it looks very much like a Mummy movie.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Holy ****, since when do people have pure thoughts every microsecond, from cradle to grave?? Because that’s how long it took for Luke to realize he was wrong to think of killing Ben.

When you think about it in terms of religious dogma and suppression, it’s a poetic scene. How many people on the fringes of society have been told they’re not worthy enough to be part of the (fill in the blank) religious group they’re wanting to join. The irony is that when you exclude someone from things like that for not being good enough it often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, driving them even more into the things you wanted to exclude them for. And that’s exactly what Luke did to Ben.

No. Luke sensed it for a while and it kept growing. When he finally made the decision to go kill Ben he walked from his hovel all the way to Ben's. Not to mention get his lightsaber and get dressed and he went knowing full well that he would murder him in cold blood.
Like in the ST is not Like! It is poorly written and directed.


And to say that it's just how I and a few others expected things to be and have no basis for Luke being a hero and holding him up on a pedestal, we have 30ish years of stories with Lucas' approval and input until Disney wiped it away so that they could piss all over the real legacy of these characters!


Han and Leia lost more than one kid in the book, comics and games and yet they didn't abandon each other, they grew closer.


Luke lost many Jedi to the dark side and stronger ones than Ben and he didn't turn coward and run


All JJ and Rian know how to do is subvert and destroy. And if you know anything about them in the real world, that's all they and their ilk know how to do.
That's all I am going to say about real world religions and politics.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Cook

In fact ROTS established that there is a way to go beyond death.

Not quite.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The difference between Jar Jar and Rose is that I actually UNDERSTAND why people would dislike Jar Jar.

The difference between Jar Jar and Rose is that one is Social Justice Warrior Jar Jar and the other is just Jar Jar.

[stvn1974]

It really is sad that being against oppression and warmongering is now considered a negative and gets you labeled silly shit like SJW.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So if we get a happy ending with Rise Of Skywalker can we expect a new trilogy in 30 years undoing everything from it too? Can't wait.

And if Palpatine is alive in this new film it not only a major plot problem but it will nullify the entire point of the first six films in the series.

The cloned him in comics/books in the 90s. It was actually a popular storyline.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

The cloned him in comics/books in the 90s. It was actually a popular storyline.

They should clone Luke and alter his DNA so that he won't become such a sad sack in the future.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

That’s true, but any comic relief could’ve also communicated that. It didn’t require a terrible, bad reception phonecall joke, to try and stall things, while Poe makes fun of Hux’s name (General Hugs!!!?). It completely undermines the threat of The First Order, and spoils the tension and tone of the opening of the film. Just my opinion though.

Yeah. That joke was nothing like Han’s joke in Ep. IV when he says something like “We’re all fine here, how are you?” That was done tastefully, felt natural, and didn’t overstay its welcome. The General Hugs mama joke, on the other hand, felt really out of place, overstayed its welcome, and was trying too hard to be funny.

[Panama Jack]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Must be tough being an apologist

Must be tough to be so hyper-critical that you can’t just enjoy the movies.

[octagon]

Wow, a lot to catch up on...

Originally Posted by stvn1974

There is a difference in a story not going the way you expected or wanted than the characters or plot points being changed that make absolutely no sense based on past films/shows/books.

Are those really all that different? Is there really a lot of difference between something not making sense based on what you already know and something not going the way you expected?

Originally Posted by Deathbymonkeys

Han solos defining character trait has been to help people out he empathizes with. He does it every time. Beckett. Qira. Chewie. Lando. Luke and Obi. Leia. The rebellion ect. Every freaking time. And you want to tell me the only person he abandones is his son without trying to save him? His charater motivations were complete shit in tfa just like Leia and Lukes. They were all written completely shitty.

It's been a few days since I've watched TFA so my recollections might be hazy but didn't Han die trying to save his son?

And lest you be tempted to say 'well, sure, but that was way after the fact' let me preemptively observe that doing the right thing reluctantly has always kind of been Han's bag. He reluctantly abandoned the rebels on the eve of the Death Star attack only to swoop in and save the day after a last minute change of heart and he was on the verge of reluctantly bailing on Leia and the rebels at the start of Empire. I honestly don't remember the particulars of Solo but I'm sure he was a reluctant hero who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing in that one too.

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I know this wasn't directed at me, but TESB would be nothing historically without Vader's famous line. 10 seconds and nostalgia really do wonders.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'historically' so I can't be sure just how wrong you are here

If all you mean is that without 'I am your father' Empire wouldn't have one of those 'You're gonna need a bigger boat/I made him an offer he couldn't refuse" moments that completely permeated the popular culture for decades to come then yeah, maybe there's something to that.

But so what.

It's a fantastic movie and yeah, the reveal was a big part of that but it was hardly the only part of it. The two hours leading up to that moment were pretty freaking awesome too.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Why do you suppose people very often only look at the "whats" and not the "whys" of everything?

To be fair, sometimes the whats are so bad the whys don't matter.

The love scenes between Anakin and Padme in AotC come to mind. Defenders of those scenes like to go on and on about how The Creator was trying to channel courtly, formal love of an almost Shakespearean quality and the dialogue was intentionally clunky and unnatural.

To which I always respond 'that's all well and good but it just didn't work'.

I don't agree with the people who feel the same way about aspects of the ST but I don't necessarily begrudge them all their various discontents.

If this or that aspect of the ST simply doesn't work for them then that's just how it is. The whys don't necessarily trump that.

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

Do you think Jar Jar Binks deserves a standing ovation?

Jar Jar Binks? No, probably not. Ahmed Best? Sure, why not.

In fact, I didn't see that but I have a feeling I would have been pretty pleased watching a room full of Star Wars fans stand up and tell the guy 'screw the haters, you're among friends here'.

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

That’s true, but any comic relief could’ve also communicated that. It didn’t require a terrible, bad reception phonecall joke, to try and stall things, while Poe makes fun of Hux’s name (General Hugs!!!?). It completely undermines the threat of The First Order, and spoils the tension and tone of the opening of the film. Just my opinion though.

If your complaint was that the joke just didn't land that would be one thing. I was a little iffy on it too. I liked the idea a lot but 'hold' seemed a little anachronistic and it did go on a little too long.

But this idea that it undermines the threat of the First Order and spoils the tension seems a little much. Did Leia undermine the threat of the Empire and spoil and tension when she told Tarkin she recognized his foul stench?

Now, if you want to talk about humor undermining a threat I would suggest Han stepping on Jabba's tail.

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

[Show spoiler]

That meme might work a little better if the Luke that said 'I can't murder my own father' didn't try to murder his own father like an hour later.

I'm just saying.

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

So Luke learnt his lesson in ROTJ, that he shouldn’t strike out with anger and hatred, but then he sensed the visions in Ben’s mind, and because of his anger and hatred, he proceeded to ignite his lightsaber threateningly, to briefly think about killing his unarmed sleeping nephew?

Where are you getting anger and hatred from?

Fear? Absolutely. That tracks with everything we saw onscreen. But anger and hatred? The only time we saw anything resembling hatred cross Luke's face was in Kylo's version of the story.

Originally Posted by stvn1974

And don't get me started on Han and Leia. I get that people change and evolve over thirty years but this a fantasy series so couldn't at least they get to have some sort of happiness?

I sort of agree with this. I wasn't so much bothered by the fact that they don't get a happy ending. But I never liked and still don't like the way Abrams and Kasdan just had them walk away from each other.

I get why they went that way and I can live with it but I don't think I'll ever like it.

Originally Posted by stvn1974

This is Star Wars not War and Peace. Thankfully if The Rise Of Skywalker is terrible I can just pretend this series never happened like I do with most series sequels and pretend Star Wars ended with Return Of The Jedi.

Yes, I'm sure 'pretend it never happened' is exactly how you'll respond if you don't like TROS.

And it's probably a good choice on your part because spending the next however many years saying that JJ dug a hole, RJ filled it with shit and then JJ took that shit and sculpted it into a big middle finger to the fans sounds exhausting.

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So if we get a happy ending with Rise Of Skywalker can we expect a new trilogy in 30 years undoing everything from it too? Can't wait.

Can we make it 20 please? I have a decent shot at 77 but 87 feels like a stretch.

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Must be tough being an apologist

Love means never having to say you're sorry.

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

No. Luke sensed it for a while and it kept growing. When he finally made the decision to go kill Ben he walked from his hovel all the way to Ben's. Not to mention get his lightsaber and get dressed and he went knowing full well that he would murder him in cold blood.
Like in the ST is not Like! It is poorly written and directed.

Goodness Granny, what a vivid imagination you have.

Aside from Luke being dressed and having a light saber literally none of that is in the movie.

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

And to say that it's just how I and a few others expected things to be and have no basis for Luke being a hero and holding him up on a pedestal, we have 30ish years of stories with Lucas' approval and input until Disney wiped it away so that they could piss all over the real legacy of these characters!

Speaking of Lucas' input, you are I assume aware that The Creator prepared some treatments for a possibly sequel trilogy. He didn't write full scripts or anything but he had some rough ideas of where he would have taken things.

And in these treatments Han and Leia had a son who turned to the dark side. Luke blamed himself for this and exiled himself to an island on a remote planet.

Does any of this sound familiar?

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

HelloGreedo is a huge Star Wars fan on YouTube, and HE likes TLJ.

Sorry, what? Who is this HelloGreedo and why would you presume he's in my social circle?

Originally Posted by Hardback247

I am.

Well bully for you.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by arawn

the difference between jar jar and rose is that one is social justice warrior jar jar and the other is just jar jar.

What is so horrible about Rose???!!!

I don’t get it!!

[spanky87]

The worst part about the mom joke is that it's made me have to endure the same arguments between the same people on this forum for 2 years. It hasn't even been a week since it happened last in the TRoS thread.

I like the idea behind the joke, not so much the execution, but I don't dwell on it much because it takes 5 seconds and is followed up by one of the most incredible space battles in the saga that carries a lot of weight in depicting the sacrifices and casualties of war. That whole section with Rose's sister is riveting stuff, something that I never felt with Porkins or Biggs or whoever.

I guess I just don't get hung up on inconsequential moments that are flawed (like the mom joke) and let them ruin Star Wars movies for me. Having said that, I do enjoy Domnhall Gleeson's acting in that scene.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by mediocore

Speak for yourself. I am a huge Star Wars and science fiction fan, and I liked TLJ and have a lot of interest in paying to see more Disney Star Wars, and I know quite a few others as well. Hell, I was at Celebration this year and it seems there's a lot of folks pretty keen on Star Wars still. Sure, there's plenty of fans who threw a fit and don't like TLJ, and that's fine, but don't gatekeep with this whole "True Fan" hyperbolic crap and say REAL fans hate it and NOBODY is excited for more, because that is just empirically not true, dude.

Who mentioned "true" and "real" fans? I simply stated my opinion and that of my friends.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

This is all fair enough, but it’s the specifics about certain things that raises questions. How and why did Ben manage to turn bad right under Luke’s nose? Why didn’t Luke appear to do anything about this darkness that he sensed growing in Ben? Would Luke really consider killing his unarmed nephew in his sleep? Would Luke really run away and do nothing to help, shutting himself off from the Force and Leia, who is now in danger, completely giving up? Once Rey finds Luke, and asks for him to help Leia and the Resistance, would Luke really still refuse to help at all?

Is any of that REALLY all that important to know?

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Mando54

The who the hell were all those people in Chicago at Celebration? Paid actors?

Again, what the hell are you on about? I know you and Hardback247 may have trouble grasping this concept but I actually have friends and acquaintances in the real world. I was talking about them.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

I don't know a single Star Wars or science fiction fan who liked The Last Jedi. None of us have any interest in paying to see further Disney Star Wars.

Well bully for you all.

Is that a more appropriate response?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by spanky87

Having said that, I do enjoy Domnhall Gleeson's acting in that scene.

I have similar reservations about the bit but yeah, he was spot on.

And following it up with 'He's going for the dreadnought' - 'Ah, he's insane' was also perfect.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by Neon Rabbit

I really don't understand the massive backlash for TLJ either. I honestly really enjoyed it when I saw it opening night and my opinion didn't change the other 3 times I've seen it since. I don't consider it to be any worse than the prequels and I enjoyed those too (for the most part). Is it my favorite? No, but it's definitely not the worst film I've ever seen, quite far from it actually.

My excitement for new Star Wars movies hasn't waned since The Force Awakens, but it is disheartening to see all the negativity surrounding the franchise as of late. I'm not the type of person who just blindly kisses Lucasfilm's ass and falls in love with everything they release either. There's no denying they've put out some duds before, but I honestly don't see why this movie gets so much hate.

TJL backlash in no particular order:

01: Poorly paced.
02: Poorly edited.
03: Poorly written.
04: Too many "subverted expectations" (see point 03)
05: Mary Poppins.
06: The whole business on Casino Planet.
07: Technology, actions and dialogue that contradict previous films.
08: Admiral EMO and her nonsensical plan (see points 03 and 07)
09: Making Luke a dick (see point 07)
10: Modern feminism.
11: Rose and the fact her role stole screen time that should have been used fleshing out the Finn/Poe (and perhaps Rey) character dynamics (see point 03)
12: Rose denying Finn his moment of redemption and then delivering the worst dialogue in Star wars history (see point 03)

Probably other stuff but I think twelve points are enough for now.

EDIT: 13: Like episodes 1 & 2, the Clone Wars Film, Solo and what I've seen of the Rebels TV show it's boring.