Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[JamesKurtovich]

I just caught the beginning of It's a Trap. They took a jab at the bad CGI in Jabba's palace and played Yub Nub at the end. LOL

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I think George needs to redo ALL of the CGI in the Special Editions. It really looks fake and horrible, and probably will be much more so on Blu-Ray. A lot of those effects are still from 1997 and desperately need updating.

.

Definitely agree...but think of the costs? It would be great if he redid all the special effects...the Jabba scene in ANH has to stay...as we always wanted that scene be put back in the movie...Solo does step on Jabbas tail.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

Definitely agree...but think of the costs? It would be great if he redid all the special effects...the Jabba scene in ANH has to stay...as we always wanted that scene be put back in the movie...Solo does step on Jabbas tail.

That isn´t exactly a problem (when it's for something Lucas actually cares about of course )

[Monolithium]

I hope the ninth disc of the BR set contains a cage fight between PT Lovers and OT Lovers. To the death!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

And sure, why not redo or enhance Yoda if he wants, or Jabba (if he's not happy with them as they are)? Personally, I think he should restore and release the unaltered original versions, and then really go balls out on his revisionist Special Editions. And no, I'm not being facetious-- I would actually be interested in the movies being redone to the best of his ability. Personally, I find the 2004 Editions, while an improvement overall to the '97 Editions, a bit half-assed. I don't really think they complete his true vision of the films at all, just get them ever-so-slightly closer.

That's a great idea. Restore the originals to properly preserve them, and then go hell-for-leather and redo the effects from the ground up for a definitive Final Cut.

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's a great idea. Restore the originals to properly preserve them, and then go hell-for-leather and redo the effects from the ground up for a definitive Final Cut.

for Lucas there is no definitive Final Cut he allways changes something everytime

[starwarsagent]

I love the originals..don't get me wrong...but I seen them at the movies...the restoration was great. I don't really want to see the bad color and the squares around the ships anymore...Or the Rancor scene with the messed up blue screen shots...come on people! embrace the work Lucas has done to fix the bad sequences! why would anyone go back to watching the OT in the original form and on bluray? it would look really, really bad...on the darker shots.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sure. As was mentioned before it also refers to Sidious, which is why we rarely see him as anything other than a hologram in Phantom Menace (little chat with Maul on Coruscant aside). He's literally represented as a phantom. As some have also said, it could refer obliquely to the danger that Anakin represents.

That's the beauty of Lucas' first couple of prequel titles, as they're deliriously pulpy but also full of hidden meaning. The rest are fairly literal, save for Jedi which refers to not only Luke's continuation of the order but also Anakin's return from the dark side.

Phantom Menace cannot be anyone who is a "real" menace - swap out the word "phantom" for "illusory" - Phantom Menace becomes Illusory Menace, meaning, a false menace, or menace in appearance only, but without substance. Well, that can only be the Trade Federation, while Sidious is the REAL menace, not PHANTOM menace.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well, I agree that Jabba still doesn't look right. My issue for the most part isn't with "how he fits in the scene" as much as the animiation, itself. As described in my previous posts on the matter, he still doesn't look right animation-wise, and he just looks much "cheaper" than his TPM counterpart.

For the most part I don't feel that he looks completely out of place in the scene. I don't see how dropping a CG character in this scene is all that much different than dropping in a CG character in an otherwise live action shot that was "meant" to that character put in.


The only part that doesn't look right is when Han steps on Jabba's tail. So, I agree to that extent. And that's mostly because of how bad the editing looks to make it appear as if Han is stepping 'up' onto the tail and back off of it, when in reality Harrison Ford was walking on a flat surface in the original footage. It's almost as bad as the stupid little crappy head-jerk he does to dodge Greedo's shot (another crappily editing motion added in that Harrison Ford never actually physically did in the original footage).

The only things that make Jabba scene better is that Jabba tends to be more the focal point with his facial expression, there-by taking the attention off of Han Solo and the crappy edit... and that as bad as the editing of Han's movement is in the Jabba scene, it's not nearly as jarring as that horrible head-bop in the Greedo scene.

But aside from that, I really don't have an issue with a CGI character being "dropped" into that scene. The rest of the time there aren't any issues like there is briefly with Jabba's tail. And since there was a physical actor standing there, it looks like Han is actually focusing on Jabba, so it works in that sense.

They really just need to improve the CGI, itself, for Jabba. And hopefully do more to fix Han's movement in the scene.

Sure, I would prefer to have the options of the UOT, but at this point that's not going to happen. So, I'm just trying to be optimistic in regards to them at least improving the most visually problematic aspects of the previous "improvements."

The difference is that with a modern film that uses a CG character, there's documentation done on the lighting and whatnot, so that they can recreate the same lighting for the CG character. I don't think they had that information for the altered scene.

It's flawed because frankly, the Jabba we now know was never supposed to be there. If it was supposed to be a stop-motion figure, the camera would've had to be stationary (it isn't) and there would've been shot a clean slate, which also didn't happen.

Also, the stepping on the tail looks incredibly out of place, not only in terms of effects, but in the story it's ridiculous. And since they already went through the trouble to rewrite the Greedo scene, the Jabba scene looks awful, is not needed in terms of effects, so it's plainly unnecessary.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Phantom Menace cannot be anyone who is a "real" menace - swap out the word "phantom" for "illusory" - Phantom Menace becomes Illusory Menace, meaning, a false menace, or menace in appearance only, but without substance. Well, that can only be the Trade Federation, while Sidious is the REAL menace, not PHANTOM menace.

That's a reasonable enough way of parsing everything but in addition to meaning false or illusory phantom can also mean spectral, ghostly, elusive, not clearly seen - think Phantom of the Opera.

One could argue that using Phantom to mean simply 'hidden or not readily seen' is a little sloppy but it's actually pretty well inbounds.

[Ryan0503]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Phantom Menace cannot be anyone who is a "real" menace - swap out the word "phantom" for "illusory" - Phantom Menace becomes Illusory Menace, meaning, a false menace, or menace in appearance only, but without substance. Well, that can only be the Trade Federation, while Sidious is the REAL menace, not PHANTOM menace.

The Phantom refers to the "unseen" menace .... in TPM our heroes dont realize there is an unseen threat behind the Trade Federation. Yes Sidious is a real threat but the phantom refers to the plans he has that have yet to be revieled

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

The difference is that with a modern film that uses a CG character, there's documentation done on the lighting and whatnot, so that they can recreate the same lighting for the CG character. I don't think they had that information for the altered scene.

It's flawed because frankly, the Jabba we now know was never supposed to be there. If it was supposed to be a stop-motion figure, the camera would've had to be stationary (it isn't) and there would've been shot a clean slate, which also didn't happen.

Also, the stepping on the tail looks incredibly out of place, not only in terms of effects, but in the story it's ridiculous. And since they already went through the trouble to rewrite the Greedo scene, the Jabba scene looks awful, is not needed in terms of effects, so it's plainly unnecessary.

What I can't get a grasp of: Lucas keeps the Jabba scene, which in all honesty is redundant, yet removes the Anakin-Padme scenes on Naboo (in Episode II) which frankly do add a lot to the romance and actually makes it more believable. His argument: It slowed down the pacing (as if an scene which tells the same info as the scene just right before it doesn't slown down the pacing :'))

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Aquel

What I can't get a grasp of: Lucas keeps the Jabba scene, which in all honesty is redundant, yet removes the Anakin-Padme scenes on Naboo (in Episode II) which frankly do add a lot to the romance and actually makes it more believable. His argument: It slowed down the pacing (as if an scene which tells the same info as the scene just right before it doesn't slown down the pacing :'))

Or what about the scenes in Episode III that deal with the creating of the Rebellion? Instead we get Obi-Wan fighting several creatures. Yeah, that's much more important for the movie .

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by Aquel

What I can't get a grasp of: Lucas keeps the Jabba scene, which in all honesty is redundant, yet removes the Anakin-Padme scenes on Naboo (in Episode II) which frankly do add a lot to the romance and actually makes it more believable. His argument: It slowed down the pacing (as if an scene which tells the same info as the scene just right before it doesn't slown down the pacing :'))

How old are you? have you ever seen the original jabba scene with the fat guy on it? we the fans wanted that scene put back in the movie...specially people from the fanclub in the 80 into 90s. Lucas put that scene in the special edition to please us...thats the truth..why hate on it then?

It helps the story as we see that Jabba is waiting for Han and blocking the entry into the millenium falcon...He has to smooth talk jabba to get out of there alive...this shows his smugler talents...and we see for the first time that Jabba works with bounty hunters...if you don't think it's important, then you aren't paying attention.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Come on, that's classic Solo sarcasm whichever way you slice it. The fact that Jabba's been changed to a non-human character doesn't invalidate the sentiment. Hell, that actually makes the comment even more ironic.

Looking at the 2004 clip reminded me of another great little bit with the new animation; look at Jabba when he's talking about the extra 15 percent, the way he raises his hand as he's visualising the extra cash.

I wasn't trying to knock the line. As you suggested it works on different levels. It just highlights the fact that Jabba was originally a large gentleman in a suit and puts into question if he was ever suppossed to be a big slug. Jabba the Hutt is a great character and a pretty good slug. The 2004 updates were a huge improvement, the '97 one should never have left the ILM harddrives....

I watched the ILM doc on YouTube the other day and there wasn't one mention of The Mummy Returns. Credit were credits due but it deserved a mention for ruining that particular movie.

[starwarsagent]

I have always wanted the Biggs/Luke conversation scene to be in the film (the first one on tatooine)...Its so important and it really adds to his death during the death star trench.

I know Lucas added the scene where they both talk before the attack..and that was very cool...always wanted to see that too.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

How old are you? have you ever seen the original jabba scene with the fat guy on it? we the fans wanted that scene put back in the movie...specially people from the fanclub in the 80 into 90s. Lucas put that scene in the special edition to please us...thats the truth..why hate on it then?

It helps the story as we see that Jabba is waiting for Han and blocking the entry into the millenium falcon...He has to smooth talk jabba to get out of there alive...this shows his smugler talents...and we see for the first time that Jabba works with bounty hunters...if you don't think it's important, then you aren't paying attention.

It's not as important to the story as the Padme-Anakin scenes would have been.

And a nice parallel:

Greedo is also blocking Han Solo from departing.
Han tries to smooth talk Greedo by asking for more time, which he also does with Jabba.
Erm.. we also know that Jabba works with bounty hunters in the Greedo scene, Greedo explicitly states Jabba's name.

So yes I'm paying enough attention, more than you it seems.

[starwarsagent]

Originally Posted by Aquel

It's not as important to the story as the Padme-Anakin scenes would have been.

And a nice parallel:

Greedo is also blocking Han Solo from departing.
Han tries to smooth talk Greedo by asking for more time, which he also does with Jabba.
Erm.. we also know that Jabba works with bounty hunters in the Greedo scene, Greedo explicitly states Jabba's name.

So yes I'm paying enough attention, more than you it seems.

But it shows that solo respects jabba..because he tells him off about sending some bounty hunter after him and he doesn't shoot him..it shows that they knew eachother before seeing him in ROTJ and that they have a friendship... this ties up really good with ESB when fett talks about taking him to Jabba and it helps the ROTJ story too.

You have to remember that we had never seen solo and jabba interact when we saw ROTJ.

had enough?



EDIT..and Greedo shooting first makes more sense because the Jabba the hutt scene enforces it. When solo says, why did you send that guy to kill me. it shows that solo is a nice guy and he's not about to shoot anybody as you can see, he shoots none of the bounty hunters and if he had shot greedo first he would have been nervous and running...

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

But it shows that solo respects jabba..because he tells him off about sending some bounty hunter after him and he doesn't shoot him..it shows that they knew eachother before seeing him in ROTJ and that they have a friendship... this ties up really good with ESB when fett talks about taking him to Jabba and it helps the ROTJ story too.

You have to remember that we had never seen solo and jabba interact when we saw ROTJ.

had enough?



EDIT..and Greedo shooting first makes more sense because the Jabba the hutt scene enforces it. When solo says, why did you send that guy to kill me. it shows that solo is a nice guy and he's not about to shoot anybody as you can see, he shoots none of the bounty hunters and if he had shot greedo first he would have been nervous and running...

We already know he knows Jabba, he dumped the freight of Jabba hence why Greedo is going after Han in the first place. And working for someone doesn't exactly equal a friendship (if you're referring to the bonus Han wants to give Jabba, Han was trying to buy himself more time..)

And we see Han and Jabba interact about the same thing in ROTJ, in ANH he got another chance, in ROTJ Jabba's patience had dried up.

Why would Han be nervous when he shot Greedo? He know he was just an unimportant goon and Han acted out of self defense in both versions (blasting Greedo first when he knew Greedo was going to shoot him, the dialogue points in this direction).

And since he only defended himself, why would Han going on a murderous rampage against Jabba? He wanted to pay him off, not kill him.

Han is a normal guy who tries to get by. I don't really know why Han speaking with Jabba makes him a nice guy all of a sudden, if we see it this way you could also argue that the fact he didn't sell out Luke and Obi Wan to the Empire (which would probably have netted him a whole lot more than what Obi Wan was going to pay) is actually a better sign of him being a nice guy.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by RedRanger

Ignorance. Have you seen the first Clone Wars cartoon? Grievous was a goddamn monster in it. Grievous was one of the main reasons I was ***ING pumped to see Revenge of the Sith. But alas they turned him into a weak cowardly piece of crap. It still saddens me....

Nope. I haven't seen any Terminator cartoons either.