Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Chordata]

No idea which one it is, but whatever it is, it's awful.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

No idea which one it is, but whatever it is, it's awful.

I just told you which one it is. It's the 1997 version. A version that has already been "retired" and improved upon. Therefore that version will not be on the Blu-Ray release.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I just told you which one it is. It's the 1997 version. A version that has already been "retired" and improved upon. Therefore that version will not be on the Blu-Ray release.

Unless he re-does it again. Because honestly, it still looks off and weird. But that's the problem with trying to fit in CGI in a scene that never supposed to have them.

[BankytheHack]

Not to mention that after the Greedo scene (for which I will never forgive Lucas for ruining) the scene between Han and Jabba is unnecessary.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by BankytheHack

They look fine, but they're not the achievements that Gollum or Jones were.

Gollum is WAY overrated!

Davy Jones is the best, and that's a FACT.

Originally Posted by starwarsagent

fun question. Who would win? robocop, Terminator or Grievous? Grievous right?????

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I say Inspector Gadget would beat them all but that is only my personal opinion

This.

Originally Posted by joliefan

why does everyone hate starwarsagent?

I don't, but you, I don't like one bit.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Bullcrap.

Yoda in ROTS
General Grievous
Watto
Clone troopers
Jar Jar (like him or not, he's "there" and not fake)
Kaminoans
various digital stunt doubles
Jabba in TPM

...and many more that slip by in the background.

Love the Kaminoans! Watto is just fantastic!

Originally Posted by Ryan0503

And like him or not he is the first CG main character in a movie

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Casper would like to have a word with you.

Draco from Dragonheart too.

Originally Posted by Jay444

Hmm, I know awards aren't everything but I do think they help show that an impression was made. Pirates 2, King Kong and the Two Towers all won Academy Awards for special effects. None of the PT films did. That is sort of a testament to the impression the characters of Gollum, Davey Jones and King Kong made. However, they did have a lot of help that characters like Jar Jar, Yoda and the Clone Troopers didn't have. Ya know, good acting, writing and direction. Small things like that...

The PT didn't get any awards, because Lucas is independent of Hollywood, and they hate him, obviously.

How else would you explain that these films didn't get a single academy award? Not even for best costumes? Music? Sound?
The Oscar is nothing more than an utter joke.
They can keep their cheap, worthless awards.

Bitter much?

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But that's the Jabba from the 1997 version of ANH in the picture that you posted. NOT the Jabba from the 2004 version. They completely redid his animation for the 2004 DVD. As stated in my earlier post, I'm still not thrilled with the way Jabba looks in the 2004 version, but it was still a tremendous improvement over the 1997 version.

Supposedly the TPM model of Jabba was used in 2004. And while I do see the similarity in the basic design, in addition to his coloring being off, the animation just doesn't look as good to me (particularly when he laughs, as stated in my previous post).

So, at any rate, I'm hoping that they redo him once again for the Blu-Ray release. But having said that, despite the issues that I have with both existing versions, the 2004 version was still a big improvement over the 1997 version, and it's a very safe bet that even if no further enhancement it done to him in ANH, they are as hell aren't going to revert back to the 1997 version for the Blu-Ray release, so using that version for your arguement isn't really a fair comparison.

Although he was improved upon, it still doesn't look good at all. I would definitely be for a revision if George insists that this scene is necessary but its removal would definitely fix everything about it pretty quick.

Just a few things that strike me as awkward about it:

- Jabba taking the time to do this himself. He's got goons all over the place and apparently doesn't prefer to move a lot (see ROTJ).
- A totally CG character in a 70's film... they might as well have stuck Jar Jar in there somewhere.
- Han stepping on Jabba's tail. lol wut?

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by Imrahil2001

Okay, it just sounded like you were bitter that "Rabid OT fanboys" didn't like the prequels.

I never referred to OT fans as "rabid OT fanboys" and I am not quite sure how you could've interpreted my post the way you did, but okay. If you reread the post in question, my argument was directed at both types of fanboys, not just the bashers. I just think it's unfortunate for the fans who don't fall in the extremes of either blind prequel love or exteme prequel hate that their voices get drowned out by both sides. It's kind of like American politics. Most people fall somewhere inbetween Republicans and Democrats, but it's the extremists on both sides who are in control of the debate.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Unless he re-does it again. Because honestly, it still looks off and weird. But that's the problem with trying to fit in CGI in a scene that never supposed to have them.

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Although he was improved upon, it still doesn't look good at all. I would definitely be for a revision if George insists that this scene is necessary but its removal would definitely fix everything about it pretty quick.

Just a few things that strike me as awkward about it:

- Jabba taking the time to do this himself. He's got goons all over the place and apparently doesn't prefer to move a lot (see ROTJ).
- A totally CG character in a 70's film... they might as well have stuck Jar Jar in there somewhere.
- Han stepping on Jabba's tail. lol wut?

Well, I agree that Jabba still doesn't look right. My issue for the most part isn't with "how he fits in the scene" as much as the animiation, itself. As described in my previous posts on the matter, he still doesn't look right animation-wise, and he just looks much "cheaper" than his TPM counterpart.

For the most part I don't feel that he looks completely out of place in the scene. I don't see how dropping a CG character in this scene is all that much different than dropping in a CG character in an otherwise live action shot that was "meant" to that character put in.


The only part that doesn't look right is when Han steps on Jabba's tail. So, I agree to that extent. And that's mostly because of how bad the editing looks to make it appear as if Han is stepping 'up' onto the tail and back off of it, when in reality Harrison Ford was walking on a flat surface in the original footage. It's almost as bad as the stupid little crappy head-jerk he does to dodge Greedo's shot (another crappily editing motion added in that Harrison Ford never actually physically did in the original footage).

The only things that make Jabba scene better is that Jabba tends to be more the focal point with his facial expression, there-by taking the attention off of Han Solo and the crappy edit... and that as bad as the editing of Han's movement is in the Jabba scene, it's not nearly as jarring as that horrible head-bop in the Greedo scene.

But aside from that, I really don't have an issue with a CGI character being "dropped" into that scene. The rest of the time there aren't any issues like there is briefly with Jabba's tail. And since there was a physical actor standing there, it looks like Han is actually focusing on Jabba, so it works in that sense.

They really just need to improve the CGI, itself, for Jabba. And hopefully do more to fix Han's movement in the scene.



Sure, I would prefer to have the options of the UOT, but at this point that's not going to happen. So, I'm just trying to be optimistic in regards to them at least improving the most visually problematic aspects of the previous "improvements."

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by BankytheHack

Lucas had better not even dream of touching Jabba in Jedi.

Or what? You'll complain about it on the interwebs?

Originally Posted by Beast

The CGI Jabba looks no worse than the giant puppet from RotJ. So there's no sense messing with either.

I like the DVD version BETTER than the RotJ Jabba.

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Grievous got owned mid-way through his first movie by a dude who didn't even know how to use a gun.

At least Terminator lasted 2 movies. He got shot like 645 times and lived to talk about it.

Um, you know that wasn't the same Terminator right? first one got smashed, second one got jacked up bad before it got melted, etc.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I just told you which one it is. It's the 1997 version.

Does not compute.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

The only part that doesn't look right is when Han steps on Jabba's tail. So, I agree to that extent. And that's mostly because of how bad the editing looks to make it appear as if Han is stepping 'up' onto the tail and back off of it, when in reality Harrison Ford was walking on a flat surface in the original footage.

I don't know why they had Harrison bob up and down like that, his tail isn't made of steel, I'm sure he could have stayed at the same height and we wouldn't have questioned it. Han's hand also casts a shadow on Jabba as well I'm not sure were that light source comes from, when he moves off his shadow shifts to a different direction though I may not have been paying proper attention....

And Jabba's still a wonderful human being....

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well, I agree that Jabba still doesn't look right. My issue for the most part isn't with "how he fits in the scene" as much as the animiation, itself. As described in my previous posts on the matter, he still doesn't look right animation-wise, and he just looks much "cheaper" than his TPM counterpart.

For the most part I don't feel that he looks completely out of place in the scene. I don't see how dropping a CG character in this scene is all that much different than dropping in a CG character in an otherwise live action shot that was "meant" to that character put in.


The only part that doesn't look right is when Han steps on Jabba's tail. So, I agree to that extent. And that's mostly because of how bad the editing looks to make it appear as if Han is stepping 'up' onto the tail and back off of it, when in reality Harrison Ford was walking on a flat surface in the original footage. It's almost as bad as the stupid little crappy head-jerk he does to dodge Greedo's shot (another crappily editing motion added in that Harrison Ford never actually physically did in the original footage).

The only things that make Jabba scene better is that Jabba tends to be more the focal point with his facial expression, there-by taking the attention off of Han Solo and the crappy edit... and that as bad as the editing of Han's movement is in the Jabba scene, it's not nearly as jarring as that horrible head-bop in the Greedo scene.

But aside from that, I really don't have an issue with a CGI character being "dropped" into that scene. The rest of the time there aren't any issues like there is briefly with Jabba's tail. And since there was a physical actor standing there, it looks like Han is actually focusing on Jabba, so it works in that sense.

They really just need to improve the CGI, itself, for Jabba. And hopefully do more to fix Han's movement in the scene.



Sure, I would prefer to have the options of the UOT, but at this point that's not going to happen. So, I'm just trying to be optimistic in regards to them at least improving the most visually problematic aspects of the previous "improvements."

Indeed the editing is horrible. Cutting to somebody else (Boba Fett maybe?) during the moment Han walks around Jabba would have been much better.

[Chiyo_chichi]

I personally found Fett to be the most offensive thing on that scene. He stops and looks directly at the camera, like, 'sup? you know my name...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

I personally found Fett to be the most offensive thing on that scene. He stops and looks directly at the camera, like, 'sup? you know my name...

Eh. To me it he looks around, then at camera as if "Remember me. I'll be important later." An in-joke. Big deal.

Hella-less offensive than the dwarf "toss me" in LOTR, yet people can't gush enough about those movies here.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by chip75

I don't know why they had Harrison bob up and down like that, his tail isn't made of steel, I'm sure he could have stayed at the same height and we wouldn't have questioned it. Han's hand also casts a shadow on Jabba as well I'm not sure were that light source comes from, when he moves off his shadow shifts to a different direction though I may not have been paying proper attention....

And Jabba's still a wonderful human being....

OMG, please.

We would have been interpolating 3D Jabba models and calculating displacement vectors so fast our pocket protectors would have melted.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

And Jabba's still a wonderful human being....

Come on, that's classic Solo sarcasm whichever way you slice it. The fact that Jabba's been changed to a non-human character doesn't invalidate the sentiment. Hell, that actually makes the comment even more ironic.

Looking at the 2004 clip reminded me of another great little bit with the new animation; look at Jabba when he's talking about the extra 15 percent, the way he raises his hand as he's visualising the extra cash.

[Ernest Rister]

Funny, I always thought 'The Phantom Menace' was a reference to the Trade Federation - they were a false menace, an illusory menace, while the true menace was Palpatine. Palpatine or Maul would not be "phantom", they are quite real dangers. The Trade Federation, on the other hand, was orchestrated by Palpatine, and were not in fact the true threat.

That's what I always got out of it.

phan·tom   /ˈfæntəm/ [fan-tuhm]
–noun

1. an apparition or specter.

2. an appearance or illusion without material substance, as a dream image, mirage, or optical illusion.

3. a person or thing of merely illusory power, status, efficacy, etc.: the phantom of fear.

4. an illustration, part of which is given a transparent effect so as to permit representation of details otherwise hidden from view, as the inner workings of a mechanical device.

–adjective

5. of, pertaining to, or of the nature of a phantom; illusory: a phantom sea serpent.

6. Electricity . noting or pertaining to a phantom circuit.

7. named, included, or recorded but nonexistent; fictitious: "Payroll checks were made out and cashed for phantom employees."

[Geoff D]

Sure. As was mentioned before it also refers to Sidious, which is why we rarely see him as anything other than a hologram in Phantom Menace (little chat with Maul on Coruscant aside). He's literally represented as a phantom. As some have also said, it could refer obliquely to the danger that Anakin represents.

That's the beauty of Lucas' first couple of prequel titles, as they're deliriously pulpy but also full of hidden meaning. The rest are fairly literal, save for Jedi which refers to not only Luke's continuation of the order but also Anakin's return from the dark side.

[RedRanger]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Grievous got owned mid-way through his first movie by a dude who didn't even know how to use a gun.

At least Terminator lasted 2 movies. He got shot like 645 times and lived to talk about it.

Ignorance. Have you seen the first Clone Wars cartoon? Grievous was a goddamn monster in it. Grievous was one of the main reasons I was ***ING pumped to see Revenge of the Sith. But alas they turned him into a weak cowardly piece of crap. It still saddens me....

[motorheadache95]

I think George needs to redo ALL of the CGI in the Special Editions. It really looks fake and horrible, and probably will be much more so on Blu-Ray. A lot of those effects are still from 1997 and desperately need updating.

Furthermore, if he really wanted that Jabba scene in A New Hope, and clearly disliked how the Greedo scene was done (as evidenced by his bizarre attempt to alter it), he really should have just cut out the Greedo scene altogether and replaced it with the Jabba scene, since the expository information is the same.

And sure, why not redo or enhance Yoda if he wants, or Jabba (if he's not happy with them as they are)? Personally, I think he should restore and release the unaltered original versions, and then really go balls out on his revisionist Special Editions. And no, I'm not being facetious-- I would actually be interested in the movies being redone to the best of his ability. Personally, I find the 2004 Editions, while an improvement overall to the '97 Editions, a bit half-assed. I don't really think they complete his true vision of the films at all, just get them ever-so-slightly closer.