Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

Experiencing visions: Luke didn't experience this until ESB when he saw his friends in trouble in Bespin.

He may have experienced something of the sort in the past and not known what it was: he says Dagobah is like something out of a dream. Which it is, of course, but he may have actually dreamed of it. Also, Rey's vision is kind of a new animal as it's triggered by touching the lightsaber.

Originally Posted by rdm5777

Luke learns to speak droid and Wookie throughout the films.

It's Wookiee, not Wookie.

[TheHutt]

Originally Posted by milo bloom

I'm also one of those fans that all I really ever wanted was for the original cast to just make some more adventures back in the 80s and 90s. The stuff we saw in the novels and comics.

For that, there were the great computer games by LucasArts...

...which got un-canonized by Disney recently!

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by Arawn

It's Wookiee, not Wookie.

Lol...apologies for the typo...I'm must be having trouble with double leters today. I caught my mispeling of "off" as "of" in the same post but mised this one.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by happydood

I kinda love Simon Pegg, and how he doesn't get the irony of his own comments is maybe part of what makes him funny. You don't dislike somebody because of something they like unless you're mostly superficial. That is unless they're in to racism or Country Pop.

I think he's a bit of a pillock but yeah, that trait reminds me of Obi-Wan and the infamous "only a Sith deals in absolutes" line in ROTS. Pegg's got more in common with the prequels than he realises...

[Alan_Grant]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

6. Piloting skills: This one is a bit closer as Luke is able to jump into an X-wing in ANH without any prior experience in it but Rey is able to handle a ship designed for a co-pilot and pull off some fantastic moves.

This one really pissed me off, when Han say she flies it better than HE does? What? Some newbie can fly a ship better than you can, when you've been at it for 40 years? Ok then

[Sky_Captain]

Arthritis...

[Alan_Grant]

Too much drinking after having a son like Kylo. Lol

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

1. Moving objects with the force: We don't see Luke do this until ESB. Rey does it at the end of TFA.

Did we see Luke try to move something and fail?

2. Jedi mind trick: Luke didn't do this until ROTJ and even then to mixed results. Rey nails it in TFA.

After initially failing.

3. Lightsaber skills: Luke had his a$$ handed to him in ESB and lost a hand. Rey takes down Kylo in TFA.

A seriously physically and psychologically wounded Kylo Ren, who was under orders from Snoke to capture (not kill) her.

4. Experiencing visions: Luke didn't experience this until ESB when he saw his friends in trouble in Bespin. Rey experiences this halfway thru TFA.

Different experiences. We didn't see all of Luke's life. He certainly felt he did not belong on Tatooine and was destined for something else.

5. Character growth: Luke is whiny kid in ANH and impatient in ESB...both character flaws he has to overcome. Rey doesn't show the slightest character flaw.

She's stubborn. And she's been forced to mature and fend for herself from a very young age.

6. Piloting skills: This one is a bit closer as Luke is able to jump into an X-wing in ANH without any prior experience in it but Rey is able to handle a ship designed for a co-pilot and pull off some fantastic moves.

Finn asks Rey if they have a pilot and she answers "We've got one" indicating herself. She just hasn't flown the Falcon before.

7. Communication skills: Luke learns to speak droid and Wookiee throughout the films. Rey already has this down.

Again, she didn't grow up on the Lars homestead with limited contact with others. She grew up alone on a world populated by droids and scavengers and scum from all over the galaxy. If Luke had grown up alone outside Mos Eisley you can bet he would have been similar.

Her past is meant to be mysterious. I don't understand today's millennial-A.D.D. type "I WANT ALL THE ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOWWW!!!" attitude a lot of fans have. It's a trilogy. Information will be parceled out about the characters over the course of THREE films.

Rey fits the profile of someone who was either Luke's student at one time or daughter. Jedi are trained as young children. She's been alone for 15 years, through lots of trauma - plenty of time to forget whatever skills she picked up back then. I'm not a betting person but I'd be surprised if Episode IX doesn't at least partially answer the question of her past and skills.

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Did we see Luke try to move something and fail?

Ummm, yes we did. It was called an x-wing. You can try to argue scale but remember, size matters not.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

After initially failing.

Lol...I don't think it qualifies as failing when she gets it 2 seconds later.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

A seriously physically and psychologically wounded Kylo Ren, who was under orders from Snoke to capture (not kill) her.

Fair enough but it was still a little too easy in my opinion. Also Vader wasn't going for the kill either (I know he wasn't wounded).

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Different experiences. We didn't see all of Luke's life. He certainly felt he did not belong on Tatooine and was destined for something else.

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here. Can you expand?

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

She's stubborn. And she's been forced to mature and fend for herself from a very young age.

I get all that but would still prefer for her to have a little more to overcome instead of just being able to do everything and having character flaws to overcome would only add to her story in my opinion.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Finn asks Rey if they have a pilot and she answers "We've got one" indicating herself. She just hasn't flown the Falcon before.

Yeah, I know and one of the books expands on things a bit saying she spent time tinkering around in the Falcon. I also mentioned that this one is a bit closer as it has consistently been established that Force users can have excellent flying skills.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Again, she didn't grow up on the Lars homestead with limited contact with others. She grew up alone on a world populated by droids and scavengers and scum from all over the galaxy. If Luke had grown up alone outside Mos Eisley you can bet he would have been similar.

Not saying Rey didn't have a reason for some of her abilities just breaking down what we got to experience "with" Luke vs. Rey.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Her past is meant to be mysterious. I don't understand today's millennial-A.D.D. type "I WANT ALL THE ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOWWW!!!" attitude a lot of fans have. It's a trilogy. Information will be parceled out about the characters over the course of THREE films.

I hope the bolded line isn't directed at me as I find it somewhat offensive. If it is, I think you are misinterpreting my post (or I just didn't make my opinion clear). Nowhere did I state that I want answers now or that I am even looking for them. My argument is that a story is less compelling when the character can just do everything. I'd much rather see Rey grow as a character over the course of the trilogy in lieu of her being able to do everything in the first film because of her "mysterious" past. It wouldn't have been hard for the writers to give us both a character with obstacles to overcome/room for growth and a mysterious past. It would have made for a better film in my opinion.

[fontcow]

That post was a master class in quoting quoted posts!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

Ummm, yes we did. It was called an x-wing. You can try to argue scale but remember, size matters not.

I was talking about A New Hope.

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here. Can you expand?

We didn't see Luke's life up until that point. Who knows if he had visions or not? Might have dismissed them as dreams.

I hope the bolded line isn't directed at me as I find it somewhat offensive. If it is, I think you are misinterpreting my post (or I just didn't make my opinion clear). Nowhere did I state that I want answers now or that I am even looking for them.

It was directed at the Internet in general. And today's generation, with their constant smartphone use and other distractions has absolutely no patience. My generation had to wait THREE YEARS to find out if Vader was really Luke's father, and if Han Solo would be rescued. Anyone else see the whining about The Walking Dead finale?

My argument is that a story is less compelling when the character can just do everything. I'd much rather see Rey grow as a character over the course of the trilogy in lieu of her being able to do everything in the first film because of her "mysterious" past. It wouldn't have been hard for the writers to give us both a character with obstacles to overcome/room for growth and a mysterious past. It would have made for a better film in my opinion.

If she's had past Jedi training how would they have revealed that in Force Awakens? Sounds like something best left for VIII.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

My generation had to wait THREE YEARS to find out if Vader was really Luke's father

Though technically unconfirmed in TESB, I thought it was pretty clear. I had no idea some people were seriously thinking "Vader was just lying". Thank Jebus there was no internet back then.

Fast forward to ROTS and Lucas wimps out on a similar plot point, allowing the "Oh, I don't buy that, it's just a lie" position to be completely valid.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

She grew up alone on a world populated by droids and scavengers and scum from all over the galaxy.

Good thing you can't find anything like that on Tatooine!

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

A seriously physically and psychologically wounded Kylo Ren, who was under orders from Snoke to capture (not kill) her.

By the same token, Vader's not trying to kill Luke in TESB.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Rey fits the profile of someone who was either Luke's student at one time or daughter.

She fits neither of those. Her conversation with Maz makes no sense if she's Luke's daughter.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Thank Jebus there was no internet back then.

There was, it was just mainly used by universities and the military. The Internet didn't start to get mainstream home use until the early 1990s, but was a thing since the 1970s.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Her past is meant to be mysterious. I don't understand today's millennial-A.D.D. type "I WANT ALL THE ANSWERS AND I WANT THEM NOWWW!!!" attitude a lot of fans have. It's a trilogy. Information will be parceled out about the characters over the course of THREE films.

Yet there should be enough information in a single movie to allow it to work as a self-sustained story. I think it's extremely frustrating that when the audience questions a character's motives or story arc, the only answer we can currently come up with is: "wait until the sequel(s)".

As for your millennial comment...

[Geoff D]

As always Pete, it's never as black and white as it is in your world. I don't moan about TFA because it's leaving out some of the answers, I moan because it feels like it's left out ALL of the answers. I'm no nearer to learning who these characters are at the end of the film than I am at the beginning which for me is a cardinal movie sin, and while I DO UNDERSTAND that there are more movies to come it's like they didn't even throw us a frickin' bone. It seems like they've left a LOT of 'splainin' to do but hey, read tie-in novels #17 and #21 and they'll explain some of the stuff they couldn't be arsed to put in the main movie. So that's alright then.

[Arawn]

I actually hope some of the stuff from the novels doesn't end up being supported in the movie series.

At that point my only hope is Kasdan going all Anakin-and-the-younglings on the Story Group.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by ArrestedDevelopment

Yet there should be enough information in a single movie to allow it to work as a self-sustained story. I think it's extremely frustrating that when the audience questions a character's motives or story arc, the only answer we can currently come up with is: "wait until the sequel(s)".

It does work as a self sustained story as much as Empire did. Why the double standard?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Though technically unconfirmed in TESB, I thought it was pretty clear. I had no idea some people were seriously thinking "Vader was just lying". Thank Jebus there was no internet back then.

Yeah, there was a lot of "no way" and because it would make Obi-Wan a liar.

Good thing you can't find anything like that on Tatooine!

Note you left out where I said: Again, she didn't grow up on the Lars homestead with limited contact with others. She grew up alone on a world populated by droids and scavengers and scum from all over the galaxy. If Luke had grown up alone outside Mos Eisley you can bet he would have been similar.

She fits neither of those. Her conversation with Maz makes no sense if she's Luke's daughter.

Maz may not know. Or it's one of those "from a certain point of view" things. There's a lot of speculation but as Kathleen Kennedy said: these movies are about the Skywalker family.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As always Pete, it's never as black and white as it is in your world. I don't moan about TFA because it's leaving out some of the answers, I moan because it feels like it's left out ALL of the answers. I'm no nearer to learning who these characters are at the end of the film than I am at the beginning which for me is a cardinal movie sin

So Finn didn't have an arc? Kylo? Rey certainly isn't the same as she was.

Again: look at Empire. Did we ever really get to know Lando? Boba Fett? The only reason Star Wars (ANH) was self-contained is because nobody was sure there was going to be another one, and many thought it would flop.

[stvn1974]

I rewatched the prequels this weekend. I like The Phantom Menace more than before even though I have never really hated it. AotC is still worse than being punched in the gut and while Sith still has the continuity errors I will add a half star from my last viewing to make it 2.5 out of 5. I have the despecialized OT but I think I will suffer through Lucas' CGI dumps and watch the Special editions this time. At least I know I can finish it all off with the 5/5 The Force Awakens.