Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I just don’t know why so many people are fine with drastic changes done to films 20+ years after they came out. Even if some of the changes make sense, that’s not how the movie happened. Perhaps if the changes occurred really early on then it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but waiting decades is too long. When I see Hayden at the end of ROTJ, I don’t think “How sweet. He’s reverted back to his more innocent self.”; I think “That’s not what happened.” Same with the Vader “No, nooooo!” He didn’t say that. He was silent.

Because while we sorta flinch uncontrollably over the idea of change, people are able to sort of think rationally about who George Lucas is and what his process is, and the guy is even telling you in his movies -- flat out stating it -- his point of view about that? I mean, at this point, what else could he do to try to prove his point? Walk naked down Laurel Canyon? He says his point of view about change flat out in The Phantom Menace.

Execution of the changes? Sure, have it. But I'm not big into locking myself down to dogma or anything else. What works, works, what doesn't, doesn't. Filmmaker gets a better idea, why the hell not change it if you're plussing it? But if the execution is wonky and you make it worse? That's on them. Lucas is a constant work in progress OCD guy. That's who he is. The Star Wars community at some point in history is just going to have to accept that, or we'll be swirling on the event horizon gravity well of our own OCD mentality forever.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by BNex99

Just going off the screenshots, I'm not convinced. The shots of Obi-Wan and Han are noticeably different between the two. Besides, there is no way Lucasfilm or Disney would have allowed that.

I don't find it difficult to believe they cleared those few shots for inclusion in a film history special and provided the clips themselves. (Though I think this is the first time I've seen footage from the original version included in anything official since Empire of Dreams.)

AFI: 100 YEARS, 100 MOVIES dvd set. The Star Wars footage isn't the SE.

[HD Goofnut]

I may be in the minority here, but I honestly want a mixture of the cuts. Don't get me wrong I still want the original theatrical cuts, but my ideal cuts are like this:

A New Hope

-Get rid of the rocks in front of R2
-Revert back to the 1977 Krayt Dragon call
-Get rid of the entire 1997 entrance into Mos Eisley
-Keep the 1997 Dewback in front of the Mos Eisley cantina
-Keep the shot of the Millennium Falcon blasting out of Mos Eisley
-Revert back to English on the tractor beam power module
-Revert back to the 1977 blaster explosions in the detention block
-Keep Han and Chewie running into the hangar with hundreds of storm troopers and TIE fighters
-Keep 1997 X-Wing/Y-Wing launch and approach towards the Death Star
-Keep 1997 X-Wing/TIE Fighter dog fights

The Empire Strikes Back

-Keep 2004 fix of the crewman's Wampa arm
-keep 1997 compositing fixes during The Battle of Hoth
-Revert back to the 1977 line "You're lucky you don't taste very good."
-Revert back to 1977 musical cues
-Keep McDiarmid as the emperor
-Keep digital shots of cloud city
-Revert back to "Bring my shuttle."

Return of the Jedi

-Get rid of all the useless CGI in Jabba's palace along with the song replacement
-Keep Oola's reaction to the Rancor
-Get rid of Vader's "No. Nooooo!"
-Fix the explosion through the Executor's bridge. It's still obviously a car crashing through the windows and not an A-Wing
-Revert back to 1977 force ghost of Sebastian Shaw
-Revert back to Yub Nub song

I think that's all of them, but maybe I missed a few.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I may be in the minority here, but I honestly want a mixture of the cuts. Don't get me wrong I still want the original theatrical cuts, but my ideal cuts are like this:

A New Hope

-Get rid of the rocks in front of R2
-Revert back to the 1977 Krayt Dragon call
-Get rid of the entire 1997 entrance into Mos Eisley
-Keep the 1997 Dewback in front of the Mos Eisley cantina
-Keep the shot of the Millennium Falcon blasting out of Mos Eisley
-Revert back to English on the tractor beam power module
-Revert back to the 1977 blaster explosions in the detention block
-Keep Han and Chewie running into the hangar with hundreds of storm troopers and TIE fighters
-Keep 1997 X-Wing/Y-Wing launch and approach towards the Death Star
-Keep 1997 X-Wing/TIE Fighter dog fights

The Empire Strikes Back
-Keep 2004 fix of the crewman's Wampa arm
-keep 1997 compositing fixes during The Battle of Hoth
-Revert back to the 1977 line "You're lucky you don't taste very good."
-Revert back to 1977 musical cues
-Keep digital shots of cloud city
-Revert back to "Bring my shuttle."

Return of the Jedi
-Get rid of all the useless CGI in Jabba's palace along with the song replacement
-Keep Oola's reaction the Rancor
-Get rid of Vader's "No. Nooooo!"
-Fix the explosion through the Executor's bridge. It's still obviously a car crashing through the windows and not an A-Wing

I think that's all of them, but maybe I missed a few.

The Wampa arm pole and the English being changed to whatever language they speak in Star Wars are the only two things that should have been changed in the three films IF something had to be changed.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

The Wampa arm pole and the English being changed to whatever language they speak in Star Wars are the only two things that should have been changed in the three films IF something had to be changed.

Actually it would be in English, which is known as Basic in the Star Wars universe.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

.

Happens quite a bit. Especially with steelbooks. The new Halloween steelbook with Todd McFarlane artwork is being released this Sunday at Best Buy.
Not saying that is what will happen here, but would explain a Sunday release date.

[MisterKorman]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I just don’t know why so many people are fine with drastic changes done to films 20+ years after they came out. Even if some of the changes make sense, that’s not how the movie happened. Perhaps if the changes occurred really early on then it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but waiting decades is too long. When I see Hayden at the end of ROTJ, I don’t think “How sweet. He’s reverted back to his more innocent self.”; I think “That’s not what happened.” Same with the Vader “No, nooooo!” He didn’t say that. He was silent.

As uncomfortable as I've always been, I'd probably be slightly less uncomfortable if the director's for Empire and Jedi were able to sign-off on all the changes. When you're waiting for a director to die before you drag-and-drop Hayden into a movie, it's no better than the colorization movement that Lucas rallied against before.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Star Wars came to Blu-Ray on a Friday.

Gold's right, but it depends on where you were. Press release for Star Wars: The Complete Saga on Blu:

Bring home the adventure and share Star Wars with your whole family when STAR WARS: THE COMPLETE SAGA comes to Blu-ray Disc from Lucasfilm Ltd. and Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment! To be released beginning on September 12 internationally and on September 16 in North America, the nine-disc collection brings the wonder of the entire Saga direct to your living room, where you can revisit all of your favorite Star Wars moments in gorgeous high definition and with pristine, 6.1 DTS Surround Sound. Dive deeper into the universe with an unprecedented 40+ hours of special features, highlighted by never-before-seen content sourced from the Lucasfilm archives.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by MisterKorman

As uncomfortable as I've always been, I'd probably be slightly less uncomfortable if the director's for Empire and Jedi were able to sign-off on all the changes. When you're waiting for a director to die before you drag-and-drop Hayden into a movie, it's no better than the colorization movement that Lucas rallied against before.

Because Lucas was actually the creative force behind everything and Kirschner and Marquand -- like the guys who directed the early Disney animated features -- were the guys doing the grunt work making sure shots were delivered. It happens. Sometimes the producer is the Head MF In Charge involved in everything, and he hires a director to farm the shots while he's on taking care of other things. That's where the Auteur Theory needs some amendments. Sometimes the producer is the author, not the director, even though the director brings their own craftsmanship to the table, but he's doing what he's paid to do by the producer. The producer is directing the director. It's a thankless job, really. But it is what it is.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I just don’t know why so many people are fine with drastic changes done to films 20+ years after they came out. Even if some of the changes make sense, that’s not how the movie happened. Perhaps if the changes occurred really early on then it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but waiting decades is too long. When I see Hayden at the end of ROTJ, I don’t think “How sweet. He’s reverted back to his more innocent self.”; I think “That’s not what happened.” Same with the Vader “No, nooooo!” He didn’t say that. He was silent.

George Lucas's constant tinkering with his movies was as effective as Joan Rivers and Michael Jackson tinkering with their faces.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I think that's all of them, but maybe I missed a few.

Personally not a fan of the Star Trek 6 "Moon of Praxis" explosion rings, but whatever.

Hate the Vader "No", though. Seriously, really don't like it, nor the revamped Palpy/Vader dialog in Empire.

PALPY
I have no doubt this dude is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.

VADER
How is that possible?

PALPY
Well, that's an interesting question, because just a few minutes ago, you were running your mouth on the bridge of that Star Destroyer talking about him and even calling him Skywalker.

VADER
Oh...damn, really should have confiscated everyone's cell phones....

PALPY
You're digging a bigger hole.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Because while we sorta flinch uncontrollably over the idea of change, people are able to sort of think rationally about who George Lucas is and what his process is, and the guy is even telling you in his movies -- flat out stating it -- his point of view about that? I mean, at this point, what else could he do to try to prove his point? Walk naked down Laurel Canyon? He says his point of view about change flat out in The Phantom Menace.

Execution of the changes? Sure, have it. But I'm not big into locking myself down to dogma or anything else. What works, works, what doesn't, doesn't. Filmmaker gets a better idea, why the hell not change it if you're plussing it? But if the execution is wonky and you make it worse? That's on them. Lucas is a constant work in progress OCD guy. That's who he is. The Star Wars community at some point in history is just going to have to accept that, or we'll be swirling on the event horizon gravity well of our own OCD mentality forever.

I understand why Lucas did what he did; I just don’t agree with it because I don’t agree that a movie is a work in progress decades after it’s been released. It would be like the Beatles rereleasing all their albums and adding in a bunch of sound effects because they think it improves the music while at the same time refusing to release the original versions. It especially doesn’t make sense in Lucas’s case because the CGI doesn’t mix well with late 70s/early 80s movies. Even if it did mix well, a movie is a product of its time. Having a character in The Phantom Menace talk about embracing change isn’t going to convince me otherwise. I’m not going to agree that all forms of deliberate change are good just because a character in a movie says we shouldn’t fear change.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Personally not a fan of the Star Trek 6 "Moon of Praxis" explosion rings, but whatever.

Hate the Vader "No", though. Seriously, really don't like it, nor the revamped Palpy/Vader dialog in Empire.

PALPY
I have no doubt this dude is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.

VADER
How is that possible?

PALPY
Well, that's an interesting question, because just a few minutes ago, you were running your mouth on the bridge of that Star Destroyer talking about him and even calling him Skywalker.

VADER
Oh...damn, really should have confiscated everyone's cell phones....

PALPY
You're digging a bigger hole.

It is almost as if Lucas didn't care when it came to making the changes to the OT.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I understand why Lucas did what he did; I just don’t agree with it because I don’t agree that a movie is a work in progress decades after it’s been released. It would be like the Beatles rereleasing all their albums and adding in a bunch of sound effects because they think it improves the music while at the same time refusing to release the original versions. It especially doesn’t make sense in Lucas’s case because the CGI doesn’t mix well with late 70s/early 80s movies. Even if it did mix well, a movie is a product of its time. Having a character in The Phantom Menace talk about embracing change isn’t going to convince me otherwise. I’m not going to agree that all forms of deliberate change are good just because a character in a movie says we shouldn’t fear change.

Exactly right -- as I said, it's the execution, that's really what's bugging people. Frankly, Bob, at this point, if Lucas had hung on to LucasFilm, it wouldn't shock me at all if I learned he was starting over and remaking the entire series from scratch. "Movies aren't finished, only abandoned." I get that. To play advocate on your point of view, that "gotta keep plussing and fixing" production focus doesn't jibe with the whole "let go and stop trying to control things" philosophy of the Jedi in the Prequels, so, there's a whole mix of conflicting attitudes in the films.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by octagon

Which means all these post hoc rationalizations about how the younger Ani is the best way to go because blah blah blah blah are just that: rationalizations.

The point is that both Force ghosts are equally divergent from physical reality. In that sense one is no better than the other, except in the sense of who came first. But we all know that; "it's a change" doesn't in itself offer much in the way of critique of that change.

[Panama Jack]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Exactly right -- as I said, it's the execution, that's really what's bugging people. Frankly, Bob, at this point, if Lucas had hung on to LucasFilm, it wouldn't shock me at all if I learned he was starting over and remaking the entire series from scratch. "Movies aren't finished, only abandoned." I get that. To play advocate on your point of view, that "gotta keep plussing and fixing" production focus doesn't jibe with the whole "let go and stop trying to control things" philosophy of the Jedi in the Prequels, so, there's a whole mix of conflicting attitudes in the films.

The execution was not always great, I'll agree. Nobody was going to tell George No, or suggest that something was a bad idea. But now that George no longer owns the films, and since Star Wars is bigger than him, I personally wouldn't mind if Lucasfilm went through and did one final Special Edition of Eps 4-6, where some changes that made sense were kept while some of the more divisive changes (Han shooting first, Vader's Nooo) were put back to the original. Basically, a happy medium. (I actually don't mind Hayden in ROTJ, but at this point, now that he's older, I'd almost pull him in and make-up him up to look even older still and than make him redo that scene so he doesn't look like such a creeper). At the same time, obviously make the originals available as well.

I also wouldn't mind if Eps 1-3 were completely re-edited from to bottom. I think there are some good stories in there that a really good editor could find if given the appropriate authority.

Do I think they'll do any of this? No, but with Lucas out of the picture I'd really like to see them happen nonetheless.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Panama Jack

The execution was not always great, I'll agree. Nobody was going to tell George No, or suggest that something was a bad idea. But now that George no longer owns the films, and since Star Wars is bigger than him, I personally wouldn't mind if Lucasfilm went through and did one final Special Edition of Eps 4-6, where some changes that made sense were kept while some of the more divisive changes (Han shooting first, Vader's Nooo) were put back to the original. Basically, a happy medium. (I actually don't mind Hayden in ROTJ, but at this point, now that he's older, I'd almost pull him in and make-up him up to look even older still and than make him redo that scene so he doesn't look like such a creeper). At the same time, obviously make the originals available as well.

I also wouldn't mind if Eps 1-3 were completely re-edited from to bottom. I think there are some good stories in there that a really good editor could find if given the appropriate authority.

Do I think they'll do any of this? No, but with Lucas out of the picture I'd really like to see them happen nonetheless.

I think Lucas himself knows how to re-edit the films -- he said he had a backstory, and most of it was Episode III, and the other two were just him playing in his sandbox and laying down the narrative groundwork for Episode III. Then said when he got to III, he ran out of time and couldn't get in all his backstory.

Ok, what's past is past. You want a serious answer on how to edit the Prequels?

One movie.

You just start with Anakin and Obi-Wan as Episode III starts, and then as THAT story progresses, you zip back and forth to the core -- absolute core emotional moments -- that matter to Anakin's story from the Prequels, with the core earlier moments informing the moments in Revenge of the Sith. Don't get tricked up on chronology, go for the emotional story, the emotional story arc. Make people feel that story, screw all the rest, it's sandbox tertiary who cares world building...One movie, the bulk using Revenge of the Sith, with moments from Menace and Clones that matter. That's how I'd do it. Because that's actually how Lucas envisioned it -- he said himself he had a backstory, and got a small piece in 1 and then a small piece in 2, but the real story was 3. So....His story was padded out, by him, no one told him no, for a whole lot of reasons that are perfectly understandable and maybe even admirable (democritization of cinema through digital cinema, essentially taking one for the team). Star Wars paid for his true goal. And he tried to have some fun doing it. Hindsight? Retrospect? Yeah, one film. If he wanted to change all the Episode numbers and just said, "You know what? Here we go -- Episode I: Revenge of the Sith, Episode II: A New Hope, Episode III..."

You follow? The Prequels as one movie with all the stuff that actually matters? Tell Anakin's backstory at the same time as telling his backstory? Does that make sense? One movie. Shouldn't have been a trilogy. One movie.

I think audiences would have gone crazy. I mean wild.

But what do I know. I am just an unfrozen caveman, your modern world frightens and confuses me.

[Bobbyjoe766]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

George Lucas's constant tinkering with his movies was as effective as Joan Rivers and Michael Jackson tinkering with their faces.

Cantina patrons.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Personally not a fan of the Star Trek 6 "Moon of Praxis" explosion rings, but whatever.

Hate the Vader "No", though. Seriously, really don't like it, nor the revamped Palpy/Vader dialog in Empire.

PALPY
I have no doubt this dude is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.

VADER
How is that possible?

PALPY
Well, that's an interesting question, because just a few minutes ago, you were running your mouth on the bridge of that Star Destroyer talking about him and even calling him Skywalker.

VADER
Oh...damn, really should have confiscated everyone's cell phones....

PALPY
You're digging a bigger hole.

Heh, I've always seen that bit of dialogue as being quite deliberate: Vader's trying to pull the wool over Palp's (formerly monkey) eyes, and if Ian McDiarmid wasn't delivering a performance deader than A-line flares with pockets in the knees he could've laced his follow-up line ("Search your feelings, Lord Vader, you will know it to be true") with Palps' typically sarcastic inflection. Instead we got the Nyquil version, turning what's supposed to be a revision showing the first sign of cracks in the Vader/Palps dynamic - they're both trying to recruit Luke to destroy the other one - into something that lands with an almighty clunk. Typical George Lucas revision then: half-decent idea, abysmal execution. And the Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo in Jedi can simply go Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck itself.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BNex99

Just going off the screenshots, I'm not convinced. The shots of Obi-Wan and Han are noticeably different between the two. Besides, there is no way Lucasfilm or Disney would have allowed that.

I don't find it difficult to believe they cleared those few shots for inclusion in a film history special and provided the clips themselves. (Though I think this is the first time I've seen footage from the original version included in anything official since Empire of Dreams.)

I dunno. The shite colour is very similar to Harmy which in turn is derived from the creaky old Lowry HD masters from the Blu-ray, I don't believe that a new restoration will have colour that looks anything like as ridiculously oversaturated as the Lowry masters do.