Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by peterthx

it couldn't have been that important to you or you would have known it was sebastian shaw and not david prowse originally at the end of rotj.

snap!

[aiman04]

A fan of the unaltered OT just said that it was David Prowse as Anakin at the end of Jedi.

[timE1985]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yes, it was. Which is why it had such an emotional impact and I couldn't enjoy repeated viewings.

But it's still the movie with the least rewatchability due to depressing it is.

Was I reading into it too much?

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It couldn't have been that important to you or you would have known it was Sebastian Shaw and not David Prowse originally at the end of ROTJ.

My appologies to Mr. Shaw, fortunately I'm not the one that erased him from history. What I meant was, at least in the 1997 edition Anakin was depicted as an old, war-torn man consistant with the events of the trilogy (and as originally intended) as opposed to a retconned 20 something.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by timE1985

Was I reading into it too much?



My appologies to Mr. Shaw, fortunately I'm not the one that erased him from history. What I meant was, at least in the 1997 edition Anakin was depicted as an old, war-torn man consistant with the events of the trilogy (and as originally intended) as opposed to a retconned 20 something.

He's not erased from history. He's still the person playing Darth Vader when he's unmasked by Luke.

Though he did lose his eyebrows via CGI, but he's still intact and listed in the credits.

Yes, they replaced the Force Ghost of Anakin, but for all the right reasons. As Humpty Dumpty Deadakin made no sense.

[timE1985]

Originally Posted by Beast

Indeed. Clearly people don't really care. They just like trashing Lucas whenever possible.

I can't speak for others but my issue is not with the actor or even a resentment towards Lucas. In fact, I frequently support THX in debates with my Lucas-bashing friends. However, in making the Special Editions, he not only altered the look, but altered the story as well. I appreciate the restoration and even some of the special effects changes but changing key plot segments simply to tie it in better with a prequel made decades later!? Come on.

[timE1985]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yes, they replaced the Force Ghost of Anakin, but for all the right reasons. As Humpty Dumpty Deadakin made no sense.

Young Anakin makes more sense than old Anakin? What about young Ben or young Yoda? Perhaps we'll see them in the Newer Specialer Blu-ray Sextology.

[Chiyo_chichi]

Anakin never looked like how Shaw was portrayed at the end of the original Jedi. Only a beat up Darth. Anakin did however look like Hayden Christensen, right before the transformation.

So, yes, it makes sense.

[StereoMike]

Do we really have to get through this crap over and over every week? Guys, we got it, you don't like the Prequels and you want the unaltered Original Trilogy but you won't be getting it anytime soon. So get over it and move on for Christ's sake.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by timE1985

Young Anakin makes more sense than old Anakin? What about young Ben or young Yoda? Perhaps we'll see them in the Newer Specialer Blu-ray Sextology.

Someone doesn't pay much attention when Yoda talks about them being luminous beings, not composed of crude matter.

Humpty Dumpty Deadakin manifested with hair and all his limbs, and without the scars of his physical body.

So why would he be restrained in form to the living corpse he was as Darth Vader? It's not The Grudge.

Why would he choose to manifest as a body he doesn't even recognize? Or that Yoda and Obi-Wan don't.

If the force allows such miraculous abilities, the one thing people can't accept is a younger ghost form?

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

Anakin never looked like how Shaw was portrayed at the end of the original Jedi. Only a beat up Darth. Anakin did however look like Hayden Christensen, right before the transformation.

So, yes, it makes sense.

Exactly. If old Anakin is there, he should be scarred and mutilated! Or if they say the scars are gone because he has been redeemed, then putting a young Anakin would be even more appropriate.

[timE1985]

Originally Posted by Beast

Someone doesn't pay much attention when Yoda talks about them being luminous beings, not composed of crude matter.

You must be talking about the Prequel Trilogy. No, I wasn't paying much attention. This too, in and of itself was a retcon. Justification for what he was to turn around and do with RotJ. Mind you, I was a Star Wars fan. After first seeing the Special Editions in theaters and then open-mindedly watching episodes 1 - 3, I became an ex-fan. That being said, I haven't watched them too much in a while. I plan on getting 4 - 6 when the BDs launch but hope to have something that at least resembles the original story.

Originally Posted by Beast

Humpty Dumpty Deadakin manifested with hair and all his limbs, and without the scars of his physical body.

So why would he be restrained in form to the living corpse he was as Darth Vader? It's not The Grudge.

Why would he choose to manifest as a body he doesn't even recognize? Or that Yoda and Obi-Wan don't.

If the force allows such miraculous abilities, the one thing people can't accept is a younger ghost form?

The impression that the original scene leaves is that a man can choose good over evil after a life of being the biggest badass in a galaxy far, far away. The ret-con not only was an insult to both actors, but also didn't quite deliver this message. Perhaps, only that he could 'take it all back'. I pinned him as a character with no regrets. Who made mistakes but in the end, he accepted his life as it was and sought forgiveness.

Originally Posted by Stereomike

you don't like the Prequels and you want the unaltered Original Trilogy but you won't be getting it anytime soon. So get over it and move on for Christ's sake.

Does anyone care to address the following:

Originally Posted by timE1985

Honestly though, it all boils down to subjectivity and opinion. The only thing I hope can be agreed upon is that we are each able to view the edition we prefer. It's not alright for Lucas to force his ret-cons on fans of the older films by keeping the original versions locked away. I'm shocked that 365 people voted against the added value of having the ability to watch the Classic Edition in addition to the SE. It just seems so out of character for our community. Aren't we the same people that lobbied for seemless branching of the Watchmen?

And just for information's sake, I want to point out the following scores on Rotten Tomatos:

ANH 94
ESB 97
RotJ 78
TPM 62
AotC 66
RotS 80

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/search...earch=starwars

[Beast]

Originally Posted by timE1985

You must be talking about the Prequel Trilogy. No, I wasn't paying much attention. This too, in and of itself was a retcon
Justification for what he was to turn around and do with RotJ.

And much like with Sebastian Shaw, you fail.

It was Empire Strikes Back. Might wanna take a time out and rewatch the films.

It's not a retcon at all. Been a part of the Star Wars mythology since 1980. Try again.

I plan on getting 4 - 6 when the BDs launch but hope to have something that at least resembles the original story.

Well good, because the Special Editions didn't change the actual story one iota.

The impression that the original scene leaves is that a man can choose good over evil after a life of being the biggest badass in a galaxy far, far away. The ret-con not only was an insult to both actors, but also didn't quite deliver this message. Perhaps, only that he could 'take it all back'. I pinned him as a character with no regrets. Who made mistakes but in the end, he accepted his life as it was and sought forgiveness.

Clearly you misinterpretid the original scene then.

Again, it wasn't a retcon. And it doesn't insult either actors. Both of them were still paid for their roles and both recieved credit. And Sebastian Shaw still appears as unmasked Vader. All that was done is replace something that made no sense, with something that did.

And just for information's sake, I want to point out the following scores on Rotten Tomatos:

ANH 94
ESB 97
RotJ 78
TPM 62
AotC 66
RotS 80

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/search...earch=starwars

I don't give a flying frisbee what Rotten Tomatoes says...

It's just a collection of so-called "reviewers" opinions. And reviewers don't have an opinion that is more important than the average viewer. Reviewers simply offer opinions, not facts. What matters is how the individual feels about the movie. Not some nonsense average on a website.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by timE1985

Honestly though, it all boils down to subjectivity and opinion. The only thing I hope can be agreed upon is that we are each able to view the edition we prefer. It's not alright for Lucas to force his ret-cons on fans of the older films by keeping the original versions locked away. I'm shocked that 365 people voted against the added value of having the ability to watch the Classic Edition in addition to the SE. It just seems so out of character for our community. Aren't we the same people that lobbied for seemless branching of the Watchmen?

You wanted someone to address this.... so here we go.

No, I do not agree. It's not your local fast food place. You don't get to have it "Your way right away at Lucasfilm Now".

The only person who should get what they want is Lucas. As the Creator, the only person who needs to be satisfied is Lucas himself. He feels there is a lot of problems with the so-called Original Cuts, and doesn't consider them worth the time to throw money at to restore and release. Because they don't represent the movies as he wants them to be presented. You toss the term retcons around like they're some evil thing. But then, the reveal that Darth Vader as Luke's father is a retcon in itself. Any information revealed after the fact, especially in a follow-up movie is technically a retcon.

It just stands for retroactive continuity. It is not an evil thing. Certainly not how you're viewing it at least.

And just because we belong to the same community of Blu-Ray fans, does not mean that we have to prescribe to the same beliefs.
We're not sheep or lemmings. We're allowed to disagree. And in this case, I couldn't disagree more.

[whbinder]

Although I am not personally a fan of Hayden at the end (personal opinion only, not an attack on anyone else's opinion). The reasoning put out there at the time was that Anakin - the Jedi - died a long time ago, during Revenge of the Sith. His body was alive in the form of Vader for a long time after that. So when the body passed away the spirit of Anakin from the time of his death carried over.

It's a stretch I suppose, but one I can live with.

[Uxi]

The ghost appearing as "actual" young Anakin seems to make more sense than appearing as an "imaginary" old Anakin that never lived with his arms and legs and hair and eyebrows ( ) intact.... my beef was in the execution. Hayden doesn't appear to be looking in the same direction as Alec Guiness or the Muppet and I don't see that same thing with Sebastian.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Ya know what... I just thought of this.

I hope he keeps changing them forever. In all honesty, we already have the original versions (and I'm sure we'll get them on BD), so why not keep it fresh by giving us something new every few years? Like I said, I can find parts of the original, all special editions, OT, PT, etc, etc, etc that I like & don't like. There are parts of the original ESB that I prefer over the SE and there are parts of the SE that I prefer over the original. No version, in my opinion is superior in every way. While I seen every film in the theater during it's original release, I wear no nostalgic, rose colored glasses when I look at any of the chapters.

I can see it now:

Star Wars 2012 - the 'new' special editions
Star Wars 2013 - with 5 SECONDS of new footage to every movie!
Star Wars 2014 - Updated all the effects to match current technology
Star Wars 2015 - the 'we swear it is definitive' version
Star Wars 2016 - fooled you
Star Wars 2017 - Just give us the money will ya?
Star Wars 2018 - the Super Dooper Jar Jar Edition

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by Gaius Marius

Star Wars 2018 - the Super Dooper Jar Jar Edition

Despite the name. This will actually replace all actors with stock footage of Hayden and/or CGI Jabba the Hutt.

[P@t_Mtl]

Here we go again! and again! and again!......

[supercutz]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Here we go again! and again! and again!......

This thread is starting to give me the runs. everytime I click in here I'm hoping for some, uh I don't know, ACTUAL info or updates on the blu release and I keep seeing the same tired arguments/debates. Frankly it's getting old and it's ruining this bloated thread. If you want to bash/love the Star Wars films in whatever form you prefer, there's another discussion thread around this forum somewhere. Go there and discuss removing state-of-the-art technical achievements of that time with current CGI nonsense

[MCT]

timeE1985, you're pissing in the wind trying to convince Beast that the PT is trash and all the changes made in the SE's were for the worse. Let it go. If Lucas decides to change the name of the very franchise to Outer Space Galactic Rim Warfare, he wouldn't have a problem with it. Whatever master Lucas wishes to do with his little toy is fine with him.