Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

I'm done discussing my favorite movie franchise and a huge influence of my life once again.

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

LOL What? He did call the revisions revisions, or rather Special Editions.

And he never made it impossible for fans to see the version they choose. He didn't go door-to-door stealing away people's VHS and laser disc copies to be tossed into a giant bonfire. He just didn't feel inclined to release every version in every format every decade or so. No amount of *****ing from entitled fanboys will ever change the FACT that those versions do exist and are/were obtainable.

Even after Lucas said he'd not release them he still did! But it's not good enough quality for you so you whine and cry and call him evil and money hungry and blah blah blah. But the TRUTH is he made available what he said wouldn't be. It's just not to your satisfaction. That's all it comes down to, entitlement by whiny fanboys with nothing better to do with their lives but proclaim how terrible Lucas is for taking away what they feel they are owed. That is your "perfectly valid" reason. That you feel you are owed something when, in fact, you are not.

'Unaltered' versions of the Star Wars trilogy exist. That is fact. They exist in multiple formats. That is fact. Going on and on and on about how horrible Jedi rocks is will never change the fact that the version without the dance number IS available in a digital format. Go out and buy it, watch it, and move on with your lives.

So....are you done now? With this post? Or will there be another? Are you just done? Or done done?

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

LOL What? He did call the revisions revisions, or rather Special Editions.

And he never made it impossible for fans to see the version they choose. He didn't go door-to-door stealing away people's VHS and laser disc copies to be tossed into a giant bonfire. He just didn't feel inclined to release every version in every format every decade or so. No amount of *****ing from entitled fanboys will ever change the FACT that those versions do exist and are/were obtainable.

Even after Lucas said he'd not release them he still did! But it's not good enough quality for you so you whine and cry and call him evil and money hungry and blah blah blah. But the TRUTH is he made available what he said wouldn't be. It's just not to your satisfaction. That's all it comes down to, entitlement by whiny fanboys with nothing better to do with their lives but proclaim how terrible Lucas is for taking away what they feel they are owed. That is your "perfectly valid" reason. That you feel you are owed something when, in fact, you are not.

'Unaltered' versions of the Star Wars trilogy exist. That is fact. They exist in multiple formats. That is fact. Going on and on and on about how horrible Jedi rocks is will never change the fact that the version without the dance number IS available in a digital format. Go out and buy it, watch it, and move on with your lives.

Wow...we have circled back to this again? Really? You are breaking no new ground here. You obviously got the versions you wanted right? So please move along then. There is nothing further to discuss in this thread about the current releases that has not already been discussed in detail. The rest of us who have not gotten what we wanted will hold the fort down. We will see you over in the Star Wars VII thread once we do.

Went from how can they because they don't exist anymore to Lucas dose not want them out...Who cares what Lucas want's at this point.

[Norbie]

[QUOTE=BillieCassin;9470287] .... I find it hard to believe that we are going to come up with anything Disney hasn't already thought of before they spent 4B on Lucasfilm, especially since Disney is a publicly traded company ..../QUOTE]

As a public company do they have to make available the details of their purchase of LucasFilm at least to their shareholders?

[Majoran]

Good grief, this thread has become the never ending circle. I understand that people want the UOT, but complaining here over and over won't change anything. It also makes it easy to push buttons. Maybe if people stopped getting emotional in their replies maybe we would see post upon endless post of people saying GL is evil/killed my childhood/ruined my favorite movies.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

They were, in all likelihood, done for the 3D conversions, which were still being released at that point. They're no longer happening.

Some website featured (probably hundreds of pages back by now) was restoring the OT into 4K, then took down the announcement a week later. This wasn't for the 3D conversion. and I don't believe we will never see a 3D conversion released either.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Some website featured (probably hundreds of pages back by now) was restoring the OT into 4K, then took down the announcement a week later. This wasn't for the 3D conversion. and I don't believe we will never see a 3D conversion released either.

Uhh...that's exactly what we're talking about. The 4k transfer was done years ago by Reliance Mediaworks. It wasn't recent. We're talking 2010-2011. That's exactly when they were working on the 3D versions.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Uhh...that's exactly what we're talking about. The 4k transfer was done years ago by Reliance Mediaworks. It wasn't recent. We're talking 2010-2011. That's exactly when they were working on the 3D versions.

uhh...they took it down after it got quite a bit of attention online. This tells you nothing? Besides that you ignored the second half of my statement, or the fact that Episode VII comes out next xmas.

[tylergfoster]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

That is your "perfectly valid" reason. That you feel you are owed something when, in fact, you are not.

I didn't say he was obligated to do anything. At no point did I actually say "he ought to release the original versions" or anything similar. All I said was, he has a right to edit the movies, and if he does that, fans have a right to be upset about it because he previously presented the prior revision and said "this is what I want you to see." Period.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

uhh...they took it down after it got quite a bit of attention online. This tells you nothing? Besides that you ignored the second half of my statement, or the fact that Episode VII comes out next xmas.

Uhh...who do you think posted the news that they took it down.
All I'm saying is that the initial reason probably wasn't for a restoration. It was for the 3D versions. What they're doing with it now is anyone's guess.

There are many, many reasons why they could have taken it down. You're just assuming it's because of the reason you want to hear.

[reason108]

I want to thank Elvis for the GOUT Fiasco link.

I wonder what the actors who appeared in the original films thought about having their performance replaced by George by a digital creature of some kind. Even if you were an extra in the background, just knowing that you were in that film then to have George replace you at some point. That would suck.


Also, I think George could have retired an trillionaire instead of an billionaire. What he should have done was set up the web site so people just order the version of SW that they wanted. You know, you could choose the original crawl with the Greedo shoots first or you might prefer Luke with the thinner lightsaber or Obi-Wan with the thicker one. Perhaps you really like it when Darth says "Noooooooooooo!". If grandma prefers Han shoot first then just order that for her. You just pay for what you want and then they send it out to you. Then, everyone can get exactly what they want.

Yeah, I know, that is just a crazy idea. And, I am being silly. But, Lucas did let the cat out of the bag by offering so many options for us to choose from but not allowing for us to really choose.

I am just going to hope that someday the original theatricals see an blu ray release. Would be nice.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by tylergfoster

I vehemently disagree with anyone who would argue it is not somehow George Lucas' right to change what he made. If any others with a stake in Star Wars are not going to object, then he can have at it, in as many increasing permutations as he wants to.

I could make that argument.

Films, while being commercial products obviously, become a part of culture. The original Star Wars films were a massive part of the culture for anyone who lived (and especially grew up) in the 70's, 80's and 90's. While I am not a communist who thinks films should be "owned by the people" I do think cultural impact is important. This is why we worry about film preservation after all, and why many make the case for preserving films even when there's little to no money in it.

The original cuts could be considered important enough to culture that they should be kept available and restored, even if the main creative force behind them doesn't want to.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

LOL What? He did call the revisions revisions, or rather Special Editions.

As early as 2000 Lucas stopped calling the Special Editions as such, and had the VHS re-releases from that year labeled simply as the "Star Wars Trilogy". Thus the hard-core revisionism (claiming that the SEs are the only versions of the OT films) started no later than then, and likely even earlier than that...

1997 vs 2000:
|

Note that both boxes below have the exact same 1997 SE cuts, the only difference is that the 2000 box has some Episode II preview bonus material.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by svenge

As early as 2000 Lucas stopped calling the Special Editions as such, and had the VHS re-releases from that year labeled simply as the "Star Wars Trilogy". Thus the hard-core revisionism (claiming that the SEs are the only versions of the OT films) started no later than then, and likely even earlier than that...

1997 vs 2000:
|

Note that both boxes below have the exact same 1997 SE cuts, the only difference is that the 2000 box has some Episode II preview bonus material.

The 2000 re-release of the Laserdisc pretty much did the same thing.



It also includes the Episode II preview bonus as well..

[Kryptonic]

The 1997 tapes came out after the theatrical releases, so it's mostly a promotional thing.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

If we believe reports from around the time the special editions were made, the negatives were in such a bad shape that they were almost too far gone, to restore. Granted that might be malarkey on Lucasfilm's part but if it isn't, then there's no way those negatives were put back together, they would have been stored. So if that's true they'll have to look elsewhere for the new restorations (examples of which you've highlighted).

Some of that was bluster on LFL's part, I think the qualifier was IF they hadn't restored it at that point, then it really would've been too late. The neg was dissassembled because it was made up of several disparate stocks which would've reacted differently to the chemical bath that they used for cleaning, so it was taken apart to address the needs of each stock individually. Some shots on the notorious CRI stock had faded so badly (some 60-odd shots, approx. 15% of the total negative) that they needed replacing outright with shots from an IP, but once the physical restoration was done they could've spliced it back together just as it was.

It's a shame in a way that Star Wars' anniversary fell right when film restoration was on the cusp of embracing the same digital techniques that ILM had pioneered for their VFX work (scan in footage, work on it, film it out), and they did actually consider restoring Star Wars that way but it was deemed to be too expensive at that time. Nowadays, it'd be a piece of piss to restore Star Wars to its original state using digital technology, but the 1997 restoration was a hodge-podge of physical restoration (including the opticals, which weren't redone digitally) and digital techniques and fixes for certain shots.

BTW, all the talk of 'surviving' prints and IPs overlooks the fact that separations masters of the original movie were made. Seps don't fade because they're black-and-white recordings of the original colour, and if handled correctly they should be in great physical condition because they'd have never been run through a projector. Scan all three seps at 4K or higher and combine them digitally (like what Warners did with House of Wax, GWTW, Wizard of Oz etc) and you'll basically have another version of the original negative.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

The 2000 re-release of the Laserdisc pretty much did the same thing.



It also includes the Episode II preview bonus as well..

True. However the 2000 LD set was a Japan-only release, and I didn't want to complicate the point I was making by getting different regions involved.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They don't use prints either.

You mentioned this the other day. They use what's available. I've seen loads of movies on television that are sourced from prints, as they have the cue marks on them.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

You mentioned this the other day. They use what's available. I've seen loads of movies on television that are sourced from prints, as they have the cue marks on them.

That's what they did yeah, because TV viewings don't matter a damn. But video releases are a whole different story, I can't recall the last time I saw something on video sourced from a theatrical print (and this is going all the way back to the dark days of VHS).

[tylergfoster]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I could make that argument.

Films, while being commercial products obviously, become a part of culture. The original Star Wars films were a massive part of the culture for anyone who lived (and especially grew up) in the 70's, 80's and 90's. While I am not a communist who thinks films should be "owned by the people" I do think cultural impact is important. This is why we worry about film preservation after all, and why many make the case for preserving films even when there's little to no money in it.

The original cuts could be considered important enough to culture that they should be kept available and restored, even if the main creative force behind them doesn't want to.

No, this is the second part, where if he chooses to make the changes and then limit access to versions of a standard quality for the time in question, then his audience, who watched the previous version and understood this was a work of art intended for public consumption and enjoyed it the way it was, has a valid complaint that they should be able to easily obtain it that way (as valid as the non-essential need to own any movie, anyway). Its importance to film history is absolutely the reason they preserved, but this is where that guy is kind of right-- just because this is the way it ought to be doesn't mean anyone has any obligation to make sure it is that way. Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

BTW, all the talk of 'surviving' prints and IPs overlooks the fact that separations masters of the original movie were made. Seps don't fade because they're black-and-white recordings of the original colour, and if handled correctly they should be in great physical condition because they'd have never been run through a projector. Scan all three seps at 4K or higher and combine them digitally (like what Warners did with House of Wax, GWTW, Wizard of Oz etc) and you'll basically have another version of the original negative.

The separation masters are what is supposedly stored at the UCLA Film and Television Archive. There is another set somewhere else, too.

[stvn1974]

Blah Blah Blah!

We are consumers and we are asked to buy a product. If we don't like the product or what we are given we have the right to complain...and complain...and complain some more. Doesn't mean the corporations have to give us what we want but the consumer is what makes their CEOs and stock holders rich. If Porsche radically changed the design of their car and people hated it then they would most likely not release the same design or an even more radically change car the next year because they aren't stupid. Same thing with Coke, they tried New Coke, people disliked it so they changed it back.

The sad thing with Star Wars is that no matter what Lucas gave people the majority ate it up. Why should he bother with releasing the UOT when people kept buying the re-releases over and over. Especially the people that don't really like the changes. The "I can't stand the changes made to the films but they are all that is available now so I will deal with it" are the worst offenders.


Hopefully Disney rectifies all of this.