Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[YodasFootPowder]

Originally Posted by Breather

Oh Danny boy, reality, reality is calling...

Seriously!!!

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by hipster.doofus7

TPM - 3.0
AotC - 3.0
RotS - 4.5
ANH - 5.0
ESB - 5.0
RotJ - 4.0

RotS > RotJ

I don't see how any objective reviewer can say otherwise. The only thing wrong with RotS is a handful of cringe-inducing lines of dialogue. With RotJ, there are entire cringe-inducing scenes instead of just lines of dialogue. There are a number of scenes in RotJ that are waaay worse than anything in RotS. Including:

• The preposterous revelation that Leia is Luke's twin sister
• The Three's Company-esque misunderstanding by Han about Leia & Luke
• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god
• Ewoks in combat against mechanized imperial troops
• That Rancor fight scene has not aged well. At all. It's B-movie material.

I enjoy both of those films, but I'd still take RotJ any day.

TPM - 2.5
AotC - 3.5
RotS - 4.0
ANH - 5.0
ESB - 5.0
RotJ - 5.0

By the way, what's so crazy about Ewoks mistaking 3PO for some sort of god? You do realize that it's common for indigenous groups to mistake something they've never seen before for a god. Indigenous peoples of the Americas often believed Europeans were some sort of gods... until they were massacred.

Not sure what's so crazy about Ewoks fighting back against the Empire on their home turf either. Technology can be neutralized when one side knows the landscape far better. This has been proven time and time again here on Earth. Remember Vietnam? Or the Soviet disaster in Afghanistan? Or that ragtag band of rebels fighting the Cuban government in the 50's that wound up taking over the country?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by retablo

Luke also didn't become a full fledged villain then redeem himself by killing the man who slowly turned him evil (and thus made him a murdering thug) and saving his son. So yeah, he had a much larger arc than Luke's character ever did. He wasn't a murdering thug until the seeds of evil were already planted inside him. So yeah, that works for me.

When did Palpatine slowly turn Anakin evil? When were these seeds supposedly planted?

If the answer is 'between the first and second movies' you're basically making my point for me.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by ChadFL

I enjoy both of those films, but I'd still take RotJ any day.

TPM - 2.5
AotC - 3.5
RotS - 4.0
ANH - 5.0
ESB - 5.0
RotJ - 5.0

By the way, what's so crazy about Ewoks mistaking 3PO for some sort of god? You do realize that it's common for indigenous groups to mistake something they've never seen before for a god. Indigenous peoples of the Americas often believed Europeans were some sort of gods... until they were massacred.

Not sure what's so crazy about Ewoks fighting back against the Empire on their home turf either. Technology can be neutralized when one side knows the landscape far better. This has been proven time and time again here on Earth. Remember Vietnam? Or the Soviet disaster in Afghanistan? Or that ragtag band of rebels fighting the Cuban government in the 50's that wound up taking over the country?

Lol Chad, that's a lot of 5/5s. I think I've only used that rating fewer than 30 times.

It's been many years since I've watched the Star Wars films, but I had ANH at 7/10, ESB at 9/10, RotJ at 6/10, and RotS at 6/10 then. RotJ is a total cheesefest.

I think I'm gonna opt for only the OT and save my $ though. I'm only the 4th person to vote as such in the poll.

[Post Prod]

Originally Posted by octagon

When did Palpatine slowly turn Anakin evil? When were these seeds supposedly planted?

If the answer is 'between the first and second movies' you're basically making my point for me.

Every encounter Anakin and Palpatine had was laced with Palps laying seeds of doubt about the order and stroke his ego.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by Chiyo_chichi

Am I the only one who really wants to see how Sith looks?

Look, I am always presentable. But I am not going to prostitute myself for this site.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by WannabeSpiderMan

But at least Anakin was given a story reason for being arrogant. The most powerful man in the galaxy, his surrogate father figure, gave him special attention for 13 years and told him that he is special, that he is entitled to special treatment/recognition, that he is better than everybody else, and that he doesn't have to follow the rules, etc. Plus having off-the-chart Force abilities to back it up, and the Jedi referring to him as "The Chosen One" didn't help matters. He was manipulated from the age of nine until his fall to the Dark Side at twenty-three. So he wasn't arrogant just for the hell of it. Gotta take all of that into consideration when judging the character.

I think if Palpatine was never involved, nurturing the negative aspects of his personality and boosting his ego, Anakin would have developed into a much more humble person on the Jedi path. But that's not how it played out.

I'm not judging the character, exactly. I'm judging the way the character was handled in the three movies and my conclusion is it was grossly mishandled.

Anakin went from a likable, sympathetic kid in the first movie to an unlikable, unsympathetic douche capable of slaughtering women and children in the second movie and - this is the important part - we never saw how that happened.

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by wilky61

Lol Chad, that's a lot of 5/5s. I think I've only used that rating fewer than 30 times.

It's been many years since I've watched the Star Wars films, but I had ANH at 7/10, ESB at 9/10, RotJ at 6/10, and RotS at 6/10 then. RotJ is a total cheesefest.

Really? I've always enjoyed Return of the Jedi much more than A New Hope. I know what you mean about the prequels though. If not for the extra discs I might not buy the prequels. Plus he box art is much cooler on the original series than the whole collection.

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by octagon

When did Palpatine slowly turn Anakin evil? When were these seeds supposedly planted?

If the answer is 'between the first and second movies' you're basically making my point for me.

This is what I dont get, how can someone like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbqSJw2QCdk

become someone like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuK-aLSZtNo

Bad plot holes, thats how

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by mrpink134

This is what I dont get, how can someone like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbqSJw2QCdk become someone like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuK-aLSZtNo Bad plot holes, thats how

Hitler supposedly had a somewhat sensitive side too. Didn't make him any less of a raving, genocidal loon. Just saying...

[L32GTPCompG]

Here's a good comprehensive look at all the changes fro Episode IV. It now includes the BD changes:

http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/a...-part-one.html

[hipster.doofus7]

Originally Posted by octagon

When did Palpatine slowly turn Anakin evil? When were these seeds supposedly planted?

When Palpatine insisted that Anakin be assigned as Amidala's personal guard in AotC. Palpatine already knew that Anakin had an emotional attachment towards her, and he was setting him up for temptation.

Then later in AotC he tells Anakin that he has the potential more powerful than any Jedi. Again, he's fanning the flames for Anakin's thirst for power.

In RotS, Palpatine openly encourages Anakin to exact revenge on Dooku. This leads Anakin to decapitate him.

Then when the ship is about to crash, Palpatine tries to convince Anakin to leave Obi-Wan behind.

Finally, Palpatine assigns Anakin to be his representative at the Jedi Council, knowing full well that it sets up a conflict between Anakin and the other Jedi.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by octagon

When did Palpatine slowly turn Anakin evil? When were these seeds supposedly planted?

If the answer is 'between the first and second movies' you're basically making my point for me.

I am convinced, though there is some debate. That Palpatine was responsible for the dreams Anakin had where he saw Padame die. I also wouldn't of put it past him to have been behind his mother getting tortured and murdered by the sand people, though there is no evidence to that. Still, he is Palpatine, it would only take enough either money or leverage.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by hipster.doofus7

TPM - 3.0
AotC - 3.0
RotS - 4.5
ANH - 5.0
ESB - 5.0
RotJ - 4.0

RotS > RotJ

I don't see how any objective reviewer can say otherwise. The only thing wrong with RotS is a handful of cringe-inducing lines of dialogue. With RotJ, there are entire cringe-inducing scenes instead of just lines of dialogue. There are a number of scenes in RotJ that are waaay worse than anything in RotS. Including:

• The preposterous revelation that Leia is Luke's twin sister
• The Three's Company-esque misunderstanding by Han about Leia & Luke
• Ewoks worshiping 3PO as a god
• Ewoks in combat against mechanized imperial troops
• That Rancor fight scene has not aged well. At all. It's B-movie material.

Although ANH could use a 4.5, I pretty much agree with this 100%.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by hipster.doofus7

When Palpatine insisted that Anakin be assigned as Amidala's personal guard in AotC. Palpatine already knew that Anakin had an emotional attachment towards her, and he was setting him up for temptation.

Then later in AotC he tells Anakin that he has the potential more powerful than any Jedi. Again, he's fanning the flames for Anakin's thirst for power.

In RotS, Palpatine openly encourages Anakin to exact revenge on Dooku. This leads Anakin to decapitate him.

Then when the ship is about to crash, Palpatine tries to convince Anakin to leave Obi-Wan behind.

Finally, Palpatine assigns Anakin to be his representative at the Jedi Council, knowing full well that it sets up a conflict between Anakin and the other Jedi.

Nothing that happens after the slaughter on Tattoine can explain how he became somebody capable of such slaughter in the first place.

And if that isn't the central question of the prequels it's certainly the central question of the character.

And the answer lies between two of the movies???

I'm sorry, that's just bad storytelling.

[Post Prod]

Originally Posted by octagon

Nothing that happens after the slaughter on Tattoine can explain how he became somebody capable of such slaughter in the first place.

And if that isn't the central question of the prequels it's certainly the central question of the character.

And the answer lies between two of the movies???

I'm sorry, that's just bad storytelling.

I think you're the only person fixating on the answer being between two movies.


Look, I don't think it's an amazing arc. But it's no less/more dynamic than anyone in the OT.

It's not that I think you are slighting the Prequels as much as giving the OT too much credit.

[hipster.doofus7]

Originally Posted by octagon

Anakin went from a likable, sympathetic kid in the first movie to an unlikable, unsympathetic douche capable of slaughtering women and children in the second movie and - this is the important part - we never saw how that happened.

Anakin was not "evil" in the second movie. He was still a good guy, who in a fit of rage did something evil. It makes him a flawed and angry person, but not completely evil (yet). We don't even know as viewers if the women and children were not involved in the death of Anakin's mother.

And oh, douche-baggery has nothing to do with good or evil. A person can be a douche and a good guy at the same time. Anakin in AotC was a teenager. 80% of teenage males are douchebags. That's all the explanation you need to understand his behavior at that age.

Also, Anakin's temper was already evident in TPM. His short fuse was evident by his reaction when Padme called him a slave. He then got into that fist-fight with Greedo in the deleted scenes. He was jawing with Sebulba before the pod race. When the Jedi Council debated his candidacy for the Order, Anakin was practically seething in the background. Finally, when Qui-Gon tells Anakin to stay put in the cockpit... Anakin disobeys, and distorts the technical meaning of Qui-Gon's word to justify his disobedience. Funny enough, that's the exact same thing he does with Obi-wan's orders in AotC.

Originally Posted by octagon

Nothing that happens after the slaughter on Tattoine can explain how he became somebody capable of such slaughter in the first place.

Anger is what drove Anakin to kill the women and children. That was made explicitly clear in AotC. He was clearly remorseful after the fact. And it was obvious he committed this slaughter in a fit of rage. That's why he was sorry and crying.

TPM made it explicitly clear that Anakin had a problem with anger. I already listed examples above. Yoda even made that loooong speech to Anakin about anger leading to hate and suffering. How much more explicit do you want it to be? Yoda practically spells it out for you. Do I really need to connect the dots for you too?

I swear, some people are just so blind with hate they've lost any sense of objectivity.

[Beast]

Much like how Vader and Palpatine suddenly knew the name of the Rebel Pilot who blew up the 1st Death Star in ESB?

Much like how Luke became a Commander in the Rebellion out of nowhere with no Academy Training between ANH and ESB?

Or how about how Luke somehow managed to learn force abilities in between ANH and ESB, with no Teacher?

We have to accept that things happen between movies. Especially when you have timeline jumps of such magnitude.

It's made clear that Palpatine was mentoring Anakin by dialogue in AotC and especially RotS. So what's the problem?

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Sith

Any word or prices at Best Buy and Target, I'm ready for my preorder with Amazon to drop some.

Amazon Canada dropped their pre-order by $10, nothing yet for the US.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Post Prod

I think you're the only person fixating on the answer being between two movies.


Look, I don't think it's an amazing arc. But it's no less/more dynamic than anyone in the OT.

It's not that I think you are slighting the Prequels as much as giving the OT too much credit.

I don't know about giving the OT too much credit.

I do think the Luke arc worked better than the Anakin arc but that certainly doesn't make it high art.

The only other real 'arcs' in the OT were fairly lame.

Han's arc could have been okayish were it not for the facts that Jedi just plained sucked overall and Harrison Ford phoned it in anyway.

And Vader? Vader didn't really have an arc. He was evil and then he changed his mind. That wasn't an arc, it was a plot twist.