Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Zuiun]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I wouldn't be interested in a Aliens/Braveheart video-game-style rendition of Star Wars.

This is an interesting comment to make because to me, it epitomizes the problem with the prequels. Most specifically, The Phantom Menace.

Consider: In the "epic" ground war that takes place on Naboo, not a single participant is a human being. They are all computer generated.

Those scenes carry all of the excitement of watching someone else play a video game -- because essentially, that's exactly what it is.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Darth Sidious: Good. Good! The Force is strong with you, Anakin Skywalker. A powerful Sith you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth... Vader.

Anakin Skywalker: Thank you... my Master.

Add in another dozen direct references and sure, yeah we know he's not Vader still.

This is my point. We shouldn't have seen any of this. If you are going to disagree with me, at least do me the favour of understanding what I'm talking about.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Because they like them and as such they are well written and created characters performed by incredible A list actors

I love it when people use Cameron as example as to what a great director does and how to write movies. Cameron movies are so full of cliche and typical generic badly acted characters it make's Flash Gordon serials from the 30's look like Oscar winners

Well, Cameron CAN make really good movies (love The Abyss, love Titanic) but it's obvious that he often just makes them for self amusement and he feels an affinity with b-movie cliche's done so badly that it becomes a parody of itself. Should've seen the mess in the Alien Anthology forum, I called Aliens out for what it was but everybody seems to be under the impression that Aliens is a narrative masterpiece deserving to be seen as one of the best films of all time with some of the best acting in cinema. Sorry folks, Aliens is paper thin on narrative and the acting isn't even intentionally bad-thus-good type acting that you see in Troma films.

Originally Posted by The Doof

I agree. But even as cliches I care about Cameron's characters way more than Lucas' PT ones. Hudson's character in Aliens at least has a believable arc that swings around with a bit of range.

I have no problem with cliches. ANH is one big cliche. But there are bad cliches and good cliches.

PT = BADBADBADBADBADBADBADBADBAD

I don't think the problem with the PT is the characters or the narrative. The problem is the execution. Lucas just went all rated G and let's entertain my kids loony with the execution of the PT. Take Anakin for example, if they had a more competent kid fill that role in Episode 1, it would have been a way better film. Now for the Anakin in Ep 2, I'm ok with the actor but the execution of the character/acting as a emo teenager is where it kills the movie for me. In Ep 3 we have a much better Anakin but at that point, it's too little too late.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by The Doof

This is my point. We shouldn't have seen any of this. If you are going to disagree with me, at least do me the favour of understanding what I'm talking about.

You understand that the entire second half of the movie would have to be scrapped though right? How exactly could they keep it a secret? Why would Anakin be fighting Kenobi then? Over a girl? Two Jedi not following the rules? Then the writing is still terrible.

It's unavoidable to find out. The only way would be for Anakin to pretend to be kidnapped, come back as Vader in Vader attire and say Anakin is dead, I killed him. But Ben knew Anakin was Vader in the OT so that's out also. That's what happens when you try and do a prequel.

[Batman1980]

Is it me or does Obi-Wan get Force pushed onto his bum a lot more often than you'd expect a seasoned Jedi Knoght to?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Zuiun

This is an interesting comment to make because to me, it epitomizes the problem with the prequels. Most specifically, The Phantom Menace.

Consider: In the "epic" ground war that takes place on Naboo, not a single participant is a human being. They are all computer generated.

Those scenes carry all of the excitement of watching someone else play a video game -- because essentially, that's exactly what it is.

I agree with this, to some extent, with the clone wars. It's a cop out that the biggest war in the galaxy is mostly between robots and clones. It would make for much more impactful story-telling if it was actual species v. species suffering.

The Clone Wars TV show touches much more on this, and I appreciate it, but in the movies, it's not.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Describing Cameron's characters in Aliens as souless is beyond silly. Each Marine was better written that any of the Jedi of equal roles in the PT. Vasquez, Hudson, Hicks, Bishop, Gorman, Detriech and Burke were exceptionally written and acted supporting characters to Ripley and Newt. I cannot name any of the supporting Jedi other than Yoda and Mace Windu, yet can name more than 1/2 of the supporting characters from Aliens. Oh, and the deaths of Vasquez and Gorman was by far one of the best scenes in Sci Fi film history. Nothing in ROTS comes close to that.

Dont be silly. The characters from Aliens really couldnt be more ridiculous.
I am always wondering what the Alien franchise could be today if Cameron didnt ruin it.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

Is it me or does Obi-Wan get Force pushed onto his bum a lot more often than you'd expect a seasoned Jedi Knoght to?

He has to or else Anakin wouldn't be able to throw in all those lines about saving Obi :P

Originally Posted by JJ

I agree with this, to some extent, with the clone wars. It's a cop out that the biggest war in the galaxy is mostly between robots and clones. It would make for much more impactful story-telling if it was actual species v. species suffering.

The Clone Wars TV show touches much more on this, and I appreciate it, but in the movies, it's not.

Hey, when TPM first came out, it was great to watch the CGI battles. Face it, part of what Lucas is all about is playing with whatever new toys are available at the time to him when he makes a movie. At the time, the CGI was phenomenal in TPM. Can't really call it out for having bad CGI war scenes like 10+ years later just because video games have kind of caught up to the cinema CGI tech at this point.

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Dont be silly. The characters from Aliens really couldnt be more ridiculous.

Don't tell them that in the Alien Anthology forum. They will crucify you because Hicks is friggin Oscar worthy and Hudson should win for best supporting actor :P

[Monkey]

Nice to see this blu-ray broke all sells records for blu-ray Though I imagine this really pisses off the boycotters

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

and it's Geonosis!

Could be Genesis for all I care. Still, you cannot defend that can you so you take it upon yourself to laugh at someone for misnaming a stupid planet? Class act.

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Nice to see this blu-ray broke all sells records for blu-ray Though I imagine this really pisses off the boycotters

You do realize I couldn't care less. Why would I exactly?

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Hatter

You understand that the entire second half of the movie would have to be scrapped though right? How exactly could they keep it a secret? Why would Anakin be fighting Kenobi then? Over a girl? Two Jedi not following the rules? Then the writing is still terrible.

It's unavoidable to find out.

Yousa do not understand what I'm suggesting. At all. I would like to scrap the entire PT.

Kenobi would be struggling with a turned Anakin, but he is not yet Vader. With me so far? Vader only emerges from the fall into the pit. But because we wouldn't see his creation (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!) we wouldn't necessarily know that Vader is he. Just another new sith apprentice. It would look like Anakin is going to be a new Sith, but then Kenobi "kills" him. All clear now what I mean? Does this make any sense to you?

We never needed to see the character of Darth Vader in the PT. IMO.

[Zuiun]

Originally Posted by Beard Esquire

Could be Genesis for all I care. Still, you cannot defend that can you so you take it upon yourself to laugh at someone for misnaming a stupid planet? Class act.

Lucas should have named it "Genesis." Then the theme song could have been "Land of Confusion."

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

Dont be silly. The characters from Aliens really couldnt be more ridiculous.
I always wondering what the Alien franchise could be today if Cameron didnt ruin it.

Thank you. If only the Alien "fans" would realize this. They don't seem to comprehend how Cameron's Aliens really had nothing to do with the Alien universe and could have been set in a completely different universe with the same exact narrative (ahem ahem, Avatar, cough cough).

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Nice to see this blu-ray broke all sells records for blu-ray Though I imagine this really pisses off the boycotters

Not really a surprise but still pretty cool! I dont think there are really any boycotters though...

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Zuiun

Lucas should have named it "Genesis." Then the theme song could have been "Land of Confusion."

No, because everyone would complain that the puppets aren't CGI, so they're not real enough.

Boy do I remember how big that video was...

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by The Doof

Yousa do not understand what I'm suggesting. At all. I would like to scrap the entire PT.

Kenobi would be struggling with a turned Anakin, but he is not yet Vader. With me so far? Vader only emerges from the fall into the pit. But because we wouldn't see his creation (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!) we wouldn't necessarily know that Vader is he. Just another new sith apprentice. It would look like Anakin is going to be a new Sith, but then Kenobi "kills" him. All clear now what I mean? Does this make any sense to you?

We never needed to see the character of Darth Vader in the PT. IMO.

Nope. Because it's awful. It's unavoidable.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Beard Esquire

Could be Genesis for all I care. Still, you cannot defend that can you so you take it upon yourself to laugh at someone for misnaming a stupid planet? Class act.

What's there to defend? I have made my point! The battle on Naboo is a fun with JarJars mishaps and the Gungans fighting the battle droids. If this is a Video-Game than the battle Stormtroopers vs Ewoks is Halloween-cosplay-party. I have made my point about video games like "Battlefield" and "Medal Of Honor" also. I'm more interested in human drama than in military tactics and gritty gunfights.

[The Doof]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Nope. Because it's awful. It's unavoidable.

Ah, another "nope"-er.

"Nope:" when you don't have any means of defending a position, bring out the "nope" and stick fingers in ears.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by dookiex

If only the Alien "fans" would realize this. They don't seem to comprehend how Cameron's Aliens really had nothing to do with the Alien universe and could have been set in a completely different universe with the same exact narrative (ahem ahem, Avatar, cough cough).

Hilarious. I know this will be even more off-topic, but would you explain to me in a nutshell what I need to realize in order to understand that Aliens had nothing to do with the Alien universe, except for some cornerstones like, I don't know, Weyland-Yutani, Ripley, the aliens, hypersleep chamber etc. etc.?