Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Valaquen]

Originally Posted by dookiex

But then we wouldn't have had Cameron as a director. I think it's on record that he went into film making after seeing Star Wars. I would never have had my favourites, The Terminator, The Abyss, and Titanic.

2001: A Space Odyssey, though seeing Star Wars made him quit his day job; but it was Kubrick made him seek film as a career, SW was a kick in the arse.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

After my one week hiatus I am still amazed at how much PT bashing is allowed on this thread, not that I am saying that their should not be a civil debate about the films but the downright belligerence of PT haters towards PT fans and them referencing their deity Plinkett from RLM as their ray of light. Sorry to say but the people who hate the PT are the MINORITY, not saying that it is more popular than the OT because obviously the OT is more POPULAR no denying that, but to say that the public has a negative view of the PT is pretty much false, however all opinions are subjective so their is no right or wrong. Someone tried drawing the dumb parallel saying that his baseball team is bad and that was a fact, hence saying you can judge a movie on that basis when something is bad it is bad. With a sports team you can you statistics, standings and all other mathematical equations to make a objective statement on their play, and even those can be misleading and somewhat manipulating. With movies their is objective means of evaluating quality. I am just saying if you have a problem with the PT just move along only discuss the movies you ENJOY and try not sounding like a buffoon stating your opinion as a fact or a truth or referencing your deity Plinkett as the end all be all. I swear I will never visit these boards due to the pettiness of the administrators who will suspend some and not others they are as fair as fascist leaders and third world dictators! I am not a OT or PT fan I am a saga fan, and I know one thing I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong!

Cool story, bro.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Beast

And there's tons of model work and sets in The Phantom Menace. So the point doesn't really stand up.

People seem to think there's nothing but blue and green screens and CGI ships in that film. Might wanna check the making of features.

Exactly! "Puppets are warm and fuzzy, sprinkled with fairy dust and made with love - CGI-creatures are cold, cheap and soulless products of a computer." I don't get it! There are pros and cons to both approaches. Puppets look real but lifeless and CGI looks alive but on many occasions not touchable. You know it's CGI - but you are also aware of puppets. "Labyrinth" looks as terrible to me as "The Smurfs". There are good and bad examples for both. Yoda dangling in Lukes backpack on Dagobah or the stuffed dead head of the TaunTaun in CloseUps doesn't hold up as good as let's say CloseUps of Yoda or Jabba. Jar Jar, Sebulba or Watto couldn't have been realized with puppets.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Exactly! "Puppets are warm and fuzzy, sprinkled with fairy dust and made with love - CGI-creatures are cold, cheap and soulless products of a computer." I don't get it! There are pros and cons to both approaches. Puppets look real but lifeless and CGI looks alive but on many occasions not touchable. You know it's CGI - but you are also aware of puppets. "Labyrinth" looks as terrible to me as "The Smurfs". There are good and bad examples for both. Yoda dangling in Lukes backpack on Dagobah or the stuffed dead head of the TaunTaun in CloseUps doesn't hold up as good as let's say CloseUps of Yoda or Jabba. Jar Jar, Sebulba or Watto couldn't have been realized with puppets.

And TPM would have been better WITHOUT any or all of three characters that you mentioned in your last sentence, so you're not really making a winning argument with that one.

[jonmoz]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

After my one week hiatus I am still amazed at how much PT bashing is allowed on this thread, not that I am saying that their should not be a civil debate about the films but the downright belligerence of PT haters towards PT fans and them referencing their deity Plinkett from RLM as their ray of light. Sorry to say but the people who hate the PT are the MINORITY, not saying that it is more popular than the OT because obviously the OT is more POPULAR no denying that, but to say that the public has a negative view of the PT is pretty much false, however all opinions are subjective so their is no right or wrong. Someone tried drawing the dumb parallel saying that his baseball team is bad and that was a fact, hence saying you can judge a movie on that basis when something is bad it is bad. With a sports team you can you statistics, standings and all other mathematical equations to make a objective statement on their play, and even those can be misleading and somewhat manipulating. With movies their is objective means of evaluating quality. I am just saying if you have a problem with the PT just move along only discuss the movies you ENJOY and try not sounding like a buffoon stating your opinion as a fact or a truth or referencing your deity Plinkett as the end all be all. I swear I will never visit these boards due to the pettiness of the administrators who will suspend some and not others they are as fair as fascist leaders and third world dictators! I am not a OT or PT fan I am a saga fan, and I know one thing I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong!

To be fair I am also suprised to see how well the complete star wars boxset has sold,considering how many people hate the PT movies,or as many members on this thread would have us believe

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by svenge

And TPM would have been better WITHOUT any or all three characters that you mentioned, so you're not really making a winning argument with that one.

I don't think so! I love these characters as much as I love Jabba, Yoda and Chewbacca. All these characters are part of the Star Wars legacy!

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Exactly! "Puppets are warm and fuzzy, sprinkled with fairy dust and made with love - CGI-creatures are cold, cheap and soulless products of a computer." I don't get it! There are pros and cons to both approaches. Puppets look real but lifeless and CGI looks alive but on many occasions not touchable. You know it's CGI - but you are also aware of puppets. "Labyrinth" looks as terrible to me as "The Smurfs". There are good and bad examples for both. Yoda dangling in Lukes backpack on Dagobah or the stuffed dead head of the TaunTaun in CloseUps doesn't hold up as good as let's say CloseUps of Yoda or Jabba. Jar Jar, Sebulba or Watto couldn't have been realized with puppets.

Right, there are good and bad examples of both.

OT - great examples of model work, puppets.

The Phantom Menace - bad example of soulless CGI.

It's not about blindly preferring one over the other, it's about one being well-done and one being poorly-done.

That's why you'll see (but predictably ignore) my kudos to Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Lord of the Rings, and other movies that have done CGI well.

I don't hate CGI, but it often looks more fake than models, puppets and costumes. That's why Peter Jackson was smart enough to only use CGI when absolutely necessary, not just show it off and shove it in people's faces every time he had a chance.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by jonmoz

To be fair I am also suprised to see how well the complete star wars boxset has sold,considering how many people hate the PT movies,or as many members on this thread would have us believe

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

- H.L. Mencken

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I don't think so! I love these characters as much as I love Jabba, Yoda and Chewbacca. All these characters are part of the Star Wars legacy!

Haha. Well, you're in a pretty elite company, I don't imagine you're going to find a lot of people who love Sebulba, Jar Jar and Watto as much as Yoda, Chewbacca and Jabba.

But it's probably only because you're so willing to be an individual and form your own opinions (rather than be a mindless drone like us), and not because those characters are awful and grating and don't add much of anything to the "Star Wars legacy".

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I am not so sure. Unless broadband gets significantly faster in the next decade the optical disc is still going to be around. 4K or 8K certainly has a shot to make it on a physical medium.

There will always be a market for physical media. The next format will probably resemble laserdisc more than anything, in relative price and availability but I have no doubt there will be one, even if it's limited to a niche enthusiast market.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

Sorry to say but the people who hate the PT are the MINORITY, not saying that it is more popular than the OT because obviously the OT is more POPULAR no denying that, but to say that the public has a negative view of the PT is pretty much false, however all opinions are subjective so their is no right or wrong.

I guess I would kind of look at this as being similar to arguing over the pronunciation of tomato.

Okay, many peope don't hate the PT movies. Even I don't hate them entirely. There are aspects of them that I do hate, but I still had fun recently rewatching them, particularly Eps II and III. The parts that suck (which unfotunately are often plot and character development related) still leave plenty of room for improvement.

The point is that whether one hates/dislikes the movies as a whole or only in part, as you yourself has said, by and large the OT is still mor popular. The PT is still largely looked upon as being inferior to the OT. People may still enjoy many things about them, but they are still to an extent looked upon negatively in relation to the OT.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I don't think so! I love these characters as much as I love Jabba, Yoda and Chewbacca. All these characters are part of the Star Wars legacy!

Yeah, and that's you. How many other people would say the same thing?

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

But it's probably only because you're so willing to be an individual and form your own opinions (rather than be a mindless drone like us)

The first step is recognizing you have a problem. You're doing fine, don't be so hard on yourself.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Right, there are good and bad examples of both.

OT - great examples of model work, puppets.

The Phantom Menace - bad example of soulless CGI.

It's not about blindly preferring one over the other, it's about one being well-done and one being poorly-done.

That's why you'll see (but predictably ignore) my kudos to Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Lord of the Rings, and other movies that have done CGI well.

I don't hate CGI, but it often looks more fake than models, puppets and costumes. That's why Peter Jackson was smart enough to only use CGI when absolutely necessary, not just show it off and shove it in people's faces every time he had a chance.

I loved "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" too (as I do the whole franchise) but it's easy to wait til it's safe and improve a technique that other people have created. You can say what you will but to me JarJar really holds up if you think that he was the first CGI-character interacting with real actors in a real environment. With Yoda in TESB you also see the limits of articulation, the wiggly ears and the rubber texture - but he really holds up too. You wouldn't want him replaced by a CGI creature (me neither btw). But you propably wouldn't mind rewriting cinema-history by replacing JarJar with an Up-to-date-creature. They did this 12 years ago - before Apes, Tron, Avatar, Rings and so on...

JarJar was a real guy in a suit and not CGI in 15 scenes in TPM by the way. If he was done as bad as you say it should be easy to spot them

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I loved "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" too (as I do the whole franchise) but it's easy to wait til it's safe and improve a technique that other people have created. You can say what you will but to me JarJar really holds up if you think that he was the first CGI-character interacting with real actors in a real environment. With Yoda in TESB you also see the limits of articulation, the wiggly ears and the rubber texture - but he really holds up too. You wouldn't want him replaced by a CGI creature (me neither btw). But you propably wouldn't mind rewriting cinema-history by replacing JarJar with an Up-to-date-creature. They did this 12 years ago - before Apes, Tron, Avatar, Rings and so on...

JarJar was a real guy in a suit and not CGI in 15 scenes in TPM by the way. If he was done as bad as you say it should be easy to spot them

So did they intentionally make the guy in the suit look as bad as the CGI for continuity? You're right, I can't tell the difference, but it matters little if they're both poorly done, which is my point.

[MrJoeKalel]

Originally Posted by ahossein79

After my one week hiatus I am still amazed at how much PT bashing is allowed on this thread, not that I am saying that their should not be a civil debate about the films but the downright belligerence of PT haters towards PT fans and them referencing their deity Plinkett from RLM as their ray of light. Sorry to say but the people who hate the PT are the MINORITY, not saying that it is more popular than the OT because obviously the OT is more POPULAR no denying that, but to say that the public has a negative view of the PT is pretty much false, however all opinions are subjective so their is no right or wrong. Someone tried drawing the dumb parallel saying that his baseball team is bad and that was a fact, hence saying you can judge a movie on that basis when something is bad it is bad. With a sports team you can you statistics, standings and all other mathematical equations to make a objective statement on their play, and even those can be misleading and somewhat manipulating. With movies their is objective means of evaluating quality. I am just saying if you have a problem with the PT just move along only discuss the movies you ENJOY and try not sounding like a buffoon stating your opinion as a fact or a truth or referencing your deity Plinkett as the end all be all. I swear I will never visit these boards due to the pettiness of the administrators who will suspend some and not others they are as fair as fascist leaders and third world dictators! I am not a OT or PT fan I am a saga fan, and I know one thing I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong!

You're kidding right?

FYI, telling the truth is not bashing. The PT is bad. It has a story that makes no sense and that's not relevant to anything (said that before), characters that one could care less about (seriously, there is NO one we care for), a really annoying character that brings to subtle comic relief (after all, neither 3PO nor R2 were useless like Jar Jar), and don't start with the whole Gungans being like Ewoks, and the whole symbiotic stuff that makes no sense (seriously).

Now, you are the one that's bashing people, and worse of all, the mods. One thing I'm grateful for, is for them to provide this space for debate and exchange of ideas and ways of thinking.

Originally Posted by jonmoz

To be fair I am also suprised to see how well the complete star wars boxset has sold,considering how many people hate the PT movies,or as many members on this thread would have us believe

A couple of minutes (changes) don't make the movie bad.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Uxi

The first step is recognizing you have a problem. You're doing fine, don't be so hard on yourself.

Grow up.

[Weirded Wonder]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Except for the two peasants in "A Hidden Fortress" (who are by the way very different from C-3PO and R2) ANH didn't borrow that much from that specific movie. In TPM he picked up that thread by telling the story through the two jedi and using the motif of the general protecting the princess. There are as many references to "Forbidden Planet", "Gunga Din", Buster Keaton, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, classic Western, Pulp-SciFi, Arturian legends, world mythology and so on. That was never a secret and it was even intended. But I dare anyone to create a similar saga out of visual cues from our culture and come up with something that resembles Star Wars...

Yeah, they are different. I should have mentioned that 3PO and R2 are droids and not peasants.
Why would anyone want to create a similar saga out of visual cues from our culture and come up with something resembles Star Wars? I suppose for unimaginative people that would be the way to go. But how about creating something original?

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

"What is a moisture farmer?" It is never explained in A New Hope! "How did the Empire find the rebels on Hoth?" It was never explained how they managed that! It's just negativity and gains you nothing!

For being such a fan and understanding so much about the myth of Star Wars, you sure seem to need a lot of questions answered.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

How old are you? 8?

It's amazing how juvenile you can be.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

and it's Geonosis!

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

I hope that's true! I never got why people didn't like the prequels. Lucas stayed true in style and structure and most of all he did it respectful to the OT. It's not that he did change (like so many people say) but the world changed around him. You could easily switch the trilogies... If E1-3 had come out in 77 the Episodes 4-6 would attract bashing and hate nowadays.

If he stayed so true to the OT, why all the dialogue changes, why the need to change the OT to fit into what the PT is? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or is that how most storytellers do their job?

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

That's pathetic! I personally prefer the new E.T. version. It's a pity that it will be not included on the Bluray. Spielberg just grovels to the fans.

No, Spielberg has common sense and logic, you should look into that.

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Does anybody know if Obi Wans braid is still on the wrong side in the scene where Qui Gon rides back to Mos Espa?

Nitpick much? er wait...

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Nitpicking takes the fun out of what is on the surface a fun-adventure movie. You will always find what you take with you in movies. If you somehow dislike these movies you will always look for and find inconsistencies. You will be even happy to find them and gloat about them because it proves your initial feeling right. But what is to be gained by tearing movies apart in that way.

I'm guessing you forget what you tell people because you contradict yourself quite a bit.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Jay444

Wow, I think you need to need watch the movie again because you have completely missed the biggest theme of Aliens, which was Ripley's relationship with Newt, or lost motherhood (which you haven't mentioned once). Ripley's character was driven by Newt because the Alien robbed her of her chance to mother her own daughter (see the deleted scene). To think "it was just about the Marines" is like saying "PT was about Jar Jar's journey from dofus to Senator." You need to pay better attention when watching films. This theme is NO WHERE in Avatar btw.

Dookiex was spamming this stuff in the Aliens thread too. He kept trying to ram all these odd ideas he has about the film down everyone's throat, eventually getting insulting to any member that tried to post a counterargument. Now he brings it in here.

[dookiex]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Dookiex was spamming this stuff in the Aliens thread too. He kept trying to ram all these odd ideas he has about the film down everyone's throat, eventually getting insulting to any member that tried to post a counterargument. Now he brings it in here.

And you're here reason why? Did you not read the Star Wars thread? I was posting on this thread quite a bit before someone brought up Aliens, then it spurred off to Aliens and Cameron for a bit and now back to Star Wars. So you've followed me in here to do what exactly? Even Valaqueen didn't come on here trying to instigate (and he is on this board and he actually did make a comment regards one of my posts here) as you are so obviously trying to do now.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Valaquen

[Show spoiler]

That's been updated.

.