Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Strange thing is - I didn't actually know, believe it or not, that Episode I was as reviled as it was until I started frequenting message boards on the internet a year and a half, maybe two, before Episode II came out.

Just a sign of how things really changed once everybody started hopping on the World Wide Web .

I didn't really follow any message boards at the time either, and I remember thinking I was kind of the odd-man out when I was telling people that I didn't think it was very good. I think I was exposed to the anti-prequel sentiment from fans around the same time, about when Episode II came out.

Despite my dislike of Episode I, I remained staunchly positive about Episode II and then III. And I usually went through the same cycle with each film-- when I first saw Episode II, I thought parts of it were really stupid but I thought it was waaay better than I. In retrospect, I think it's overall a worse film than I. And III I actually thought was genuinely okay, but still the problems I had with the story seeped in my head more with each subsequent viewing despite my stubborn attempts to enjoy them.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I didn't really follow any message boards at the time either, and I remember thinking I was kind of the odd-man out when I was telling people that I didn't think it was very good. I think I was exposed to the anti-prequel sentiment from fans around the same time, about when Episode II came out.

Strange to remember a time when the only feedback you got on movies you liked/disliked pretty much came from your circle of friends.

The movie was a hit for me and my friends at the time. I remember I asked my mom to push my B-day party back a week just so I could show Episode I (which came out on VHS the first week of April, I think). We all had such a blast. I remember my best friend Tim and I were so excited to be able to watch the Podrace and the lightsaber duel over and over again.

Simple times.

But then with my foray onto the internet, I distinctly remember there being an air of negativity surrounding the coming release of Episode II. I always wondered if that influenced my feelings toward that one (though it's just as likely that I was simply maturing as a moviegoer).

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

Rather than being cynical about CGI, I think part of the problem was that for those who'd grown up on the original movies, especially those who'd been around when they were first launched, there was an enormous expectation that the new movies had to live up to, and they fell far short, in part because the CGI simply didn't have the same clout. I wondered at the time what it would be like to see the movies without the previous experience of the OT with its practical effects, but of course that's impossible for me to imagine.

I was on board with Episode 1's effects until the Gungan/Robot battle. It was at that point I remember sitting in the theater saying to myself "everything on screen is animated, nothing is real." That's the moment I remember losing interest in the effects. I never stopped saying that in the two sequels.

I remember Lucas or ILM people, not sure which, bragging about how they never made a full Clone Trooper outfit for Episode 2. That all of them are purely digital. And I was just like "why would you do that?" The scene where a Clone Trooper helps Portman up in the sand is the worst; so obviously fake, and could have so easily been 100% practical. It's just insanity.

Just my feelings though, obviously.

[baheidstu]

I've never really liked TPM much, and I don't know to what extent that is because of my massive expectations having grown up with the original films (I was 23 when TPM came out in 1999). But a couple of years ago when it was re-released in 3-D I took my son who was about 8 to see it, and he absolutely loved it! There was no bias, no cynicism, no snobbery about its plotline, acting or effects. As he sat there lapping it up, I saw the film through his eyes and had a great time. As adults, we tend to forget that the target audience for these films are young people and we tend to let our critical nature skew our perception of what we are watching. I still prefer the OOT/OUT because it's only human nature to favour what we grew up with but these days I tend to cast aside my nerd rage and just go with the flow - there are more important things to vex about than space fantasy movies.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I was on board with Episode 1's effects until the Gungan/Robot battle. It was at that point I remember sitting in the theater saying to myself "everything on screen is animated, nothing is real." That's the moment I remember losing interest in the effects. I never stopped saying that in the two sequels.

I remember Lucas or ILM people, not sure which, bragging about how they never made a full Clone Trooper outfit for Episode 2. That all of them are purely digital. And I was just like "why would you do that?" The scene where a Clone Trooper helps Portman up in the sand is the worst; so obviously fake, and could have so easily been 100% practical. It's just insanity.

Just my feelings though, obviously.

I agree. I remember a few scenes in Ep. III where there are clone troopers without their helmets on, but Temura Morrison's head looks odd and kinda fake and I was just like: "Why couldn't they just have a few actual suits for shots like this?"

Personally though, I though Episode I overall had a good balance of cgi and practical, mostly due to the limitations of it in '99 I'm guessing. Episode II, was just a bizarre looking movie that really looked like actors placed into a sterile, digital environment almost the entire time, with the exception of the scenes on Tatooine. Episode III looked much more balanced and natural, IMO.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

I've never really liked TPM much, and I don't know to what extent that is because of my massive expectations having grown up with the original films (I was 23 when TPM came out in 1999). But a couple of years ago when it was re-released in 3-D I took my son who was about 8 to see it, and he absolutely loved it! There was no bias, no cynicism, no snobbery about its plotline, acting or effects. As he sat there lapping it up, I saw the film through his eyes and had a great time. As adults, we tend to forget that the target audience for these films are young people and we tend to let our critical nature skew our perception of what we are watching. I still prefer the OOT/OUT because it's only human nature to favour what we grew up with but these days I tend to cast aside my nerd rage and just go with the flow - there are more important things to vex about than space fantasy movies.

As a counter-point to that, I think Episode I can be frightfully dull for a movie supposedly "made for little kids," especially for that middle hour after the pod race where the characters get to Coruscant and all the political "vote of no-confidence" jargon starts up.

But I can see why kids like it, because of all the funny aliens and stuff. When I was 8 the only part of Star Wars I liked to watch was the Jabba's palace sequence in Jedi. I used to watch it repeatedly and turn the tape off when it was over. I probably would have really enjoyed Episode I back then, though I would have always fast-forwarded the middle of the movie.

My point is (and this just my opinion) I don't think the prequels will hold up too well with a lot of those little kids who enjoyed it at age 8. I think they'll find that the originals are more engaging and hold up better when they get older. And I don't think that "the kids like it" is a very good defense for a movie-- when I was 10, I though "The Secret of the Ooze" was one of the greatest movies ever made.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Looks really nice. Does it just hold the three movies or is there other content included?

It's a 9 platter laserdisc set with the three films presented in CAV (5 sides each) plus one side each for extras. There was also an audio-only supplement (which didn't quite qualify as a commentary), and of course, a large hard-cover edition of George Lucas: The Creative Impulse.

[Cook]

I was 9 when TPM came out and I loved it. I enjoyed AOTC at 12 as well. But by the time ROTS came out I was beginning to recognize the issues. The biggest issue for me tho is the love story. It's bizarre, unhealthy, and disturbing. Anikan is just creepy and not in the "Vader is one scary badass mofo" way but in the "why is that guy in the tree outside my bedroom window filming me while I sleep" kind of way. If someone had found a room full of dead women who resembled padme in Anikan's basement I wouldn't have been surprised at all.

How any woman could date Anikan let alone marry him and have his kids is beyond me.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I agree. I remember a few scenes in Ep. III where there are clone troopers without their helmets on, but Temura Morrison's head looks odd and kinda fake and I was just like: "Why couldn't they just have a few actual suits for shots like this?"

Personally though, I though Episode I overall had a good balance of cgi and practical, mostly due to the limitations of it in '99 I'm guessing. Episode II, was just a bizarre looking movie that really looked like actors placed into a sterile, digital environment almost the entire time, with the exception of the scenes on Tatooine. Episode III looked much more balanced and natural, IMO.

I agree with most of your assessment. Other than the big Gungan/Robot battle I think Episode 1 looks okay. It's Episode 2 that's off the charts nutty with CGI.

[nick4Knight]

I would of been 18 when I watched Phantom and I liked it. I feel it's CGI is equal or better than anything at the time. It still holds up to itself. Can anyone seriously suggest a better VFX movie in 1999?

I REALLY liked it when first viewed on blu-ray. It was like finally it shines in all its visual and audio glory.

Now. Attack of the clones. I didnt see straight away. I saw it on DVD release a year later because it simply annoyed me that people kept talking about how cool it was to see yoda leap around being "badass"

I found this to be a concept that only teen boys could get excited over. I watched the movie and didn't get excited once including seeing yoda fight. He became a stale videogame caricature.

I feel that the acting and casting of Hayden was a huge mistake. He played it so emo as opposed to subtle and interesting. I felt like he was portraying one of the columbine boys. And there is no way that Natalie Portman or any woman could fall in love with a "male" displaying all whiny tone and being weird.

I agree where RLM propose Attack of the Clones is the worst thing since whatever... It is just really lackluster boring storytelling and the characters are inconsistent within the same movie, and with the other movies, and finally common sense.

----

I don't give a rats if they don't give us the UOT remastered. Because the current ones are still far better with the changes than AOTC and Revenge Sith.

What I want is a remake of the PT once the JJ abrams 3 are done. Imagine how effing amazing a remake PT could be with 2020 onward CGI?

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by rbg08

Movies made before you were born will usually look "dated". We tend to overlook this in movies from our childhood that we really like. Nostalgia puts thick rose-colored glasses on all of us. My kids love the Star Wars prequels and think the original trilogy is boring for the most part.

Well we all know kids don't exactly have the best of taste.

I should know, I used to think Superman IV was a good movie when I was about nine or ten years old.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by thegoat

And he said the same thing about Episodes I & III.

Really? Is that why he gave Episode II two out of four stars? Hmm...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I agree with most of your assessment. Other than the big Gungan/Robot battle I think Episode 1 looks okay. It's Episode 2 that's off the charts nutty with CGI.

...and the thing is, there's still loads of miniatures used throughout Ep II, like the Jedi Temple, the Geonosian arena, the exterior to the Coruscant nightclub etc. But they're embellished with so much CG - and need to have the real people composited into them in the first place - that they look perhaps even faker than what an actual all-CG environment would do. (The fledgeling digital cameras didn't help, they struggled with the depth of field and lighting on the miniatures.) Indeed, when they get to the all-CG Clone Trooper ground battles at the end I start enjoying myself a lot more because it looks so much better.

At least the anamorphic 35mm photography on Phantom Menace meant that ILM had to work much harder to integrate the VFX, taking into account the distortion and chromatic aberration of the anamorphic glass, so to me the VFX in Ep I looks FAR more 'realistic' than most of the stuff in Ep II.

Motorheadache is bang on about Ep III though, the cameras had matured by then and the whole thing has a more filmic look to it IMO, with much smoother integration of the live action, miniature and CG elements. No, it's not totally film-like, but it's far better in that respect than Ep II and it even looks better than the new transfer of Ep I (IMO) because of the unfortunate DNR on that one.

Originally Posted by thebard

I would not mind at all having theatrical & blu edition options for at least Episode I (Yoda puppet & all). I have the Japanese laserdisc, and I agree the pacing is much better.

+1

As with the added bloat in the OT SE's, the extra stuff in Phantom Menace only serves to bog down what is already quite a ponderous narrative. It doesn't help that the HD transfer makes the DVD-era podrace additions stand out like a sore thumb, and I've said this before about the Yoda CG alteration: I would rather have the freaky looking puppet because the voice performance just doesn't 'fit' the CG version and some of the compositing isn't great (like in the celebration at the end).

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Cook

I was 9 when TPM came out and I loved it. I enjoyed AotC at 12 as well. But by the time RotS came out I was beginning to recognize the issues. The biggest issue for me tho is the love story. It's bizarre, unhealthy, and disturbing. Anakin is just creepy and not in the "Vader is one scary badass mofo" way but in the "why is that guy in the tree outside my bedroom window filming me while I sleep" kind of way. If someone had found a room full of dead women who resembled Padme' in Anakin's basement I wouldn't have been surprised at all.

How any woman could date Anakin let alone marry him and have his kids is beyond me.

You should come to NY, especially Long Island.
The girls here are ALWAYS dating some creepy @$$hole, while the nice/good guys get nothing...
I swear, it seems like they like being "abused"

[kemcha]

I guess I don't understand what everyone is so worked up about over the unaltered original trilogy, especially from youngsters and teens who weren't around to experience the trilogy when it reached theaters from 1977 through 1983.

Before everyone chops me down, here me out for a minute. When Star Wars was released to theaters back during the summer of 1977, my parents thought it would be a nice treat to take me and my brother to see the first movie. We didn't think it was a sci-fi movie but rather one of those world war II films that our dad always enjoyed watching at home. When that opening crawl appeared and that massive Star Destroyer crawled across the screen, we were hooked.

Ever since then, seeing those films during their first theatrical run was a defining moment in me and my brothers life and it's the single most important memory we have of our parents (who have passed away in recent years). Now, I've seen the many different iterations and versions of the Star Wars films and while I understand the argument toward preserving the original films, I've continued to enjoy these films, no matter what version gets released.

I've enjoyed the original theatrical versions, the THX remastered versions and even the special edition versions. They are still the same Star Wars films that I grew up enjoying. The THX versions simply have upgraded sound effects. Nothing wrong with that and the special editions have additional footage added into the films, including that first meeting with Jabba The Hut. Now, the one thing I agree with is the altered 'Han Shot First' scene which should have never been changed because Han was a smuggler and shooting the other first before he got shot was one thing that was very much in his character to do.

Even the upgraded visuals on Yoda in Return of the Jedi was very much an added improvement. But, editing out Robert Shaw in Return of the Jedi and placing that idiot Hayden Christensen in that scene was the biggest mistake that Lucas ever made.

All in all, releasing the original theatrical edition on Blu-ray just isn't possible without upgrading the sound effects, because that is also altering the original film. I just think that some fans do tend to carry it a little too far. But, whatever version you like, Star Wars fans ARE Star Wars fans, no matter what version you like.

Simply claiming someone is not a Star Wars fan simply because they like the Special Edition versions is simply unfair to many of the fans who continue to enjoy these films.

RAH RAH

Long may Han Solo always Shoot Greedo first and may the Force bring back Robert Shaw in Return of the Jedi. Remember, Anakin Skywalker was old when he died as Darth Vader, so he wouldn't look as young as Haydon Christie.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Long may Han Solo always Shoot Greedo first and may the Force bring back Robert Shaw in Return of the Jedi. Remember, Anakin Skywalker was old when he died as Darth Vader, so he wouldn't look as young as Haydon Christie.

I'm picturing Vader dying in Luke's arms and he starts singing, "Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies..." Then his head drops as he dies...

But seriously, I'm surprised Lucas didn't add Ewen MacGregor to the last scene. That and the added Vader "No!" Totally ruined the ending for me. I can sit through the new Ewok scene, but the rest is too much.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

That and the added Vader "No!" Totally ruined the ending for me. I can sit through the new Ewok scene, but the rest is too much.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

[Joshitaka]

Robert Shaw died years before Return of the Jedi was made. Sebastian Shaw is the actor who portrayed Anakin Skywalker in Return of the Jedi.

[Vlad Draculi]

As much as teh "NO" sucks, there is nothing I can do about it. My only other option is to watch piss poor DVD quality. No thank you!!

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Vlad Draculi

As much as teh "NO" sucks, there is nothing I can do about it. My only other option is to watch piss poor DVD quality. No thank you!!

In all honestly, though, I haven't watched Return of the Jedi since the Blu-ray came out. That addition has literally ruined the movie for me (that scene being probably my favorite in the entire trilogy).