Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I wonder though, if Disney did put out the theatrical versions but they quietly did stuff like clean up mattes and black issues relating to the slugs would there be any backlash?

Could some OT fans consider such a release with minor clean-ups just another slightly less tampered with SE? Or is some minor clean-up and tweaks seen as a reasonable thing in this case?

I think people appreciate removing errors the original team couldn't fix back in the day...it's the substantive alterations that bother people (Greedo/Han thing, blah blah blah dead horse blah blah blah). So I don't think there would be any real outcry over fixing matte lines and the slug and the rest of that song.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I wonder though, if Disney did put out the theatrical versions but they quietly did stuff like clean up mattes and black issues relating to the slugs would there be any backlash?

Could some OT fans consider such a release with minor clean-ups just another slightly less tampered with SE? Or is some minor clean-up and tweaks seen as a reasonable thing in this case?

The going theory in various circles I roam in (some of which have folks who have more insight than you or I as to what is going on) is that exactly that is what we are going to get next year (soon to be this year!).

It has to happen. Anyone who saw how even the SE's in HD on SPIKE pre-Blu-ray can tell you - even the work done on those didn't hold up in HD. Virtually every space FX shot was completely obvious. The tricks that work on projected film and then the low-rez home versions all those years when scanned in HD show up incredibly. The mattes, etc. in the UOT just transferred straight to HD would not be deemed acceptable to release.

To answer your question - yes, the vast majority (if not nearly all) would be completely happy with that. There is a very tiny group of very vocal folks who are anti-anti-SE who insist that everyone who wants the OT are irrational crazies, but of course the irony is - no one is more irrational than they.

The whole SE/OT issue would not even exist today if that is all that had been done in the first place. By and large, no one minds a matte cleaned up, or a shot digitally recompositied from original elements (did we complain that the 3 technicolor strips were digitally recomposited on WoOz?), even things like lightsaber correction - etc.

What folks mind is the revisionism - yes, although it's cliche now, it doesn't make it less true and it's the perfect example - Greedo shoots first, and things like Jedi Rocks, GhostHayden, Noooooooo!, and so on.

The vast majority of folks who want the OT would be completely satisfied just to have the OT cleaned up.

It was confirmed for me yet again last week in a discussion with someone who has a position to know, that what I've been saying all along - now that the machine is starting to rumble and get ready to speed toward Episode VII, Disney is going all-out on every level to bring the OT to the forefront again - is exactly what is happening.

While the Prequels aren't going to be eliminated from the canon, and we'll see some visual references to objects, and perhaps a character or two with some tie, by and large, Lucasfilm/Disney is basically planning this whole thing like it's 1986 and we've just been waiting a few years for the OT to be continued. This goes from the very top (how they are making the film in terms of effects, actually using, you know, film instead of digital, LOL, etc.) to merchandising and everything in between. From what I understand, this will even extend to the inevitable Blu-ray re-release of the OT.

2015 is going to be a very, very good year for Star Wars fans.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I wonder though, if Disney did put out the theatrical versions but they quietly did stuff like clean up mattes and black issues relating to the slugs would there be any backlash?

Could some OT fans consider such a release with minor clean-ups just another slightly less tampered with SE? Or is some minor clean-up and tweaks seen as a reasonable thing in this case?

Some purists would be mad, but I think like with Blade Runner's Final Cut most would praise it. People tend to be against content changes and changes in tone more than actual purist issues, in my experience. My issues with the special edition are radical tone shifts like the drive into Mos Eisley with the comic droids or the terrible dance number in Jedi. Changing Solo's character my having him shoot second or Boba Fett by changing his amazing voice.

Getting rid of matte lines? Not a problem. Welcomed in fact, by me at least.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Some purists would be mad, but I think like with Blade Runner's Final Cut most would praise it. People tend to be against content changes and changes in tone more than actual purist issues, in my experience. My issues with the special edition are radical tone shifts like the drive into Mos Eisley with the comic droids or the terrible dance number in Jedi. Changing Solo's character my having him shoot second or Boba Fett by changing his amazing voice.

Getting rid of matte lines? Not a problem. Welcomed in fact, by me at least.

If they were to take this approach I'd appreciate the options I have with Blade Runner.

I'd prefer as accurate a presentation of these 70s/80s films as possible. Without revisionisms. To me the most destructive changes of all are those that throw away or mediate the visual character of a work.

I wish there was an option for best element -> telecine -> encode -> that's all. Not for Star Wars but just home video in general. I mean we're being told that there's a need for 4K when it's a miracle get 1080p releases that aren't visually dumbed down with a Highlights for Children approach.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

It was confirmed for me yet again last week in a discussion with someone who has a position to know, that what I've been saying all along - now that the machine is starting to rumble and get ready to speed toward Episode VII, Disney is going all-out on every level to bring the OT to the forefront again - is exactly what is happening.

While the Prequels aren't going to be eliminated from the canon, and we'll see some visual references to objects, and perhaps a character or two with some tie, by and large, Lucasfilm/Disney is basically planning this whole thing like it's 1986 and we've just been waiting a few years for the OT to be continued. This goes from the very top (how they are making the film in terms of effects, actually using, you know, film instead of digital, LOL, etc.) to merchandising and everything in between. From what I understand, this will even extend to the inevitable Blu-ray re-release of the OT.

2015 is going to be a very, very good year for Star Wars fans.

I really hope Disney doesn't go too retro. While the new trilogy should be closer to the OT in terms of style and content, part of the tradition of Star Wars is that every film is at the cutting edge of technology.

Also, I love the PT as much as I love the OT. I want some of that style to at least influence the standalone spinoff films. And I think ROTS is the best looking film in the entire saga so maybe shooting digital isn't a bad idea.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Changing Solo's character my having him shoot second or Boba Fett by changing his amazing voice.

"Amazing voice"? I'm not a fan of Morrison's line reads but originally it was always generic masked bad guy sound to me, and he didn't even say a word in Jedi...except his scream when his jetpack was misfired by Solo.


Better, yes. Amazing? Not a word I would use.

[Geoff D]

I haven't got a problem with the notion of the changed Boba voiceover but it's the execution of it that rankles, because Morrison clearly doesn't give a shit (doesn't the rumour go that he quite literally phoned it in?) and his delivery isn't nearly as menacing as Jason Wingreen's.

As for the remastered OT, people would be surprised at how a video transfer with the appropriate gamma would hide a multitude of sins re: the model shots. I keep seeing people moaning about how creaky the old opticals look but film doesn't correspond to linear video values particularly well (which is why digital VFX is worked on in a logarithmic colour space), so all these years of video transfers with set levels of brightness and gamma have done a great injustice to a lot of practical VFX work from yesteryear, showing up stuff like garbage mattes something chronic. Film simply doesn't work at one fixed level of brightness or gamma, and it's nice when we get transfers which reflect that, like the darkened VFX comps in the 4K transfer of Ghostbusters which do a great job of blending the seams.

A lot of the model shots for the OT were done on large-format anyway (usually 8-perf horizontal 35mm) so when they're boiled down to 4-perf 35mm they still hold more detail and less grain than they would've done had they all been composited on regular 4-perf. You transfer that directly from the 35mm o-neg with the right gamma and it'll look ****ing spectacular (never mind a scan of the finished 8-perf comp, like what Warners did on Blade Runner with the 65mm VFX) so I'm not crazy about the idea of recompositing everything for the sake of it.

BUT.......if they do it I'll still enjoy it regardless, I just hope that they finish the job properly! The one thing that's pissed me off about LFL's remastering efforts over the years is that they always leave something out, like the snake reflection in front of Marion in the Well of Souls being clearly visible even though they made such a hoo-haa about fixing the reflection in front of Indy, or Artoo's black panels in the X-Wing bluescreen shots which were colour-corrected to blue in the SE's of Empire and Jedi but still haven't been fixed in Star Wars to this day.

Fingers crossed that Disney are more diligent if they do decide to fix a few flubs here and there. For the love of Pete, please be consistent with it.

[Hellraiserfan]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I wonder though, if Disney did put out the theatrical versions but they quietly did stuff like clean up mattes and black issues relating to the slugs would there be any backlash?

Could some OT fans consider such a release with minor clean-ups just another slightly less tampered with SE? Or is some minor clean-up and tweaks seen as a reasonable thing in this case?

I hope they do keep the cleanup from the special editions. Just keep out all the extra bs Lucas threw in but keep the actual CGI changes that were good. One I remember was involving the window for one of the speeders on Hoth in ESB. In the original what was shown in the pilots side window wasn't the landscape but they fixed it with CGI for the special editions. Changes like those they should keep.

Also, I won't lie, I did like the extra footage with the Wampa.

[Geoff D]

Do people want to keep the expanded Cloud City? Yay or nay?

(Incidentally, that's another example of the lax quality control with the SE remastering, like how the window outside Vader's room in Cloud City has that fancy elevator thingy when Han and Lando walk past it, but when we cut back to it seconds later the window's gone back to it's pre-SE state. Wut?)

[OneBuckFilms]

There is an interesting fine line between a restoration and a new edition.

My dream, and from what I read here, Disney's plan, is a release similar to the Blade Runner Final Cut restoration (Fixed matte lines, cleaning up for film damage, correct color timing as best as can be ascertained), while keeping/restoring the cuts from '77, '80 and '83.

If this is absolutely what they are doing, then we'll have two versions of the OT:

- The Historic films that won the claims and awards upon release, giving history it's say.
- The SE/Final versions of the films per George Lucas, giving the author his say as to what he wanted out there.

I love the movies in either form (though preferring the original theatrical forms of the movies), and having both out there will allow us, whenever we pick which version to watch, to truly have our say.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Do people want to keep the expanded Cloud City? Yay or nay?

(Incidentally, that's another example of the lax quality control with the SE remastering, like how the window outside Vader's room in Cloud City has that fancy elevator thingy when Han and Lando walk past it, but when we cut back to it seconds later the window's gone back to it's pre-SE state. Wut?)

If I were making my own cut of Star Wars I would likely keep a lot of SE stuff, like flying into Cloud City. In general though, for a possible future BD set, I would just want one disc with the original cuts restored and another disc with the SE cuts, simple and no mixing.

[HD Goofnut]

I just want new 4K masters made of both versions of the original films. If we can get those I will die happy.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

I really hope Disney doesn't go too retro. While the new trilogy should be closer to the OT in terms of style and content, part of the tradition of Star Wars is that every film is at the cutting edge of technology.

Also, I love the PT as much as I love the OT. I want some of that style to at least influence the standalone spinoff films. And I think ROTS is the best looking film in the entire saga so maybe shooting digital isn't a bad idea.

Oh, I prey this new movie has nothing similar in style of the PT and well done 35mm still excels over digital. The originals movies would have shown more detail from proper 4K work.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Do people want to keep the expanded Cloud City? Yay or nay?

Nay but I wouldn't be a fanatic about it. Actually, yeah, I kind of would be. Maybe not to the point of not buying it but I'd be pretty disappointed if we got a more or less pretty much detinkered OT instead of, well, the UOT.

I mean, for the most part the changes to Empire are all pretty inoffensive and for what they are the Cloud City changes are pretty decent. But it's weird, the only thing in Empire Redux that really yanks me out the movie is the Bespin sky. It just screams 'Lucas and his Amazing Technicolor Computerized Golden Hour'.

[stvn1974]

Lucasfilm/Disney can tinker until the end of eternity just give us the UOT of the theatrical versions. As far as the first film (Star Wars) goes put the first version that was released in the theater out since it had changes during the run. That means garbage lines, boxes around ships, see through effects, etc.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

Lucasfilm/Disney can tinker until the end of eternity just give us the UOT of the theatrical versions. As far as the first film (Star Wars) goes put the first version that was released in the theater out since it had changes during the run. That means garbage lines, boxes around ships, see through effects, etc.

I really doubt they would ever put it out that raw. It'll be cleaned up and restored, including removing obvious matte lines and boxes. Which is good, IMO. Wanting the original cuts doesn't equate to completely untouched.

[Hellraiserfan]

This is great for a lot of you who don't mind having both versions as options to watch.

What I want most likely won't happen sadly. I would like the original theatrical versions but with some of the CGI touchups. When it comes down to it, the bad outweighs the good in the special editions so I'll be buying the untouched versions, and then give away my current trilogy set. Having both just doesn't work for me though.

[HeavyHitter]

I just want to see them go back to the original negative to derive a 4K scan. Give us the original color timing too, please.

And give us the original audio.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by fat_rancor_keeper

I wonder though, if Disney did put out the theatrical versions but they quietly did stuff like clean up mattes and black issues relating to the slugs would there be any backlash?

I really hope they don't go down this route and I'm surprised so many people who claim to be fans of film preservation and finally receiving the original unaltered versions in high definition are so supportive of it. It would be a real kick in the teeth. Leave the films alone, warts and all. If it was there in 1977/1980/1983, I expect it to still be there in 2015. Otherwise it's not the original theatrical version.

[gregmasciola]

I think what they need to do is release each film with 2 discs. 1 disc would be the original versions (I could go either way with them fixing certain errors or not) and the second disc would be the 3 special editions with seamless branching. I think that would work, since after the 1997 versions, there were mostly just a bunch of minor tweaks to the DVD and Blu-Ray versions. I think I would end up watching the 1997 versions the most. I actually like most of the new Mos Eisley footage and Jedi still has the original Anakin ghost. I can just skip the new Jabba scene and "Jedi Rocks".

I know we've discussed them letting people order their own custom version of the films by going through each change made and letting us choose which way we prefer it, but I'm sure that would be quite a hassle for them. I think the only other way to do this would be if the disc went through all of the changes when you pop it in and store your preference in your player. You'd have to go through all that again if you used a different player, though.