Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Side note (not sure if this has ever been seen before):

Star Wars Holiday Special promo video Meco 1978 - YouTube

Pretty sure that video literally spawned Lady Gaga.

[Himmel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jLACxMXBRhM

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Terminated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=jLACxMXBRhM

Spatially how the heck does that scene work out? They arrive through the planet's core and up to the surface, but wouldn't there would be a waterfall behind them when they're heading up? And why would the Jedi go through the water? I'd imagine they'd walk across the wires, with Force Balance or some nonsense. Liam and Ewan looked pretty pissed off too ...

The Phantom Menace is my favourite prequel, but I'm sure they didn't even think twice before deciding to film the scene and soak the actors.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Call me crazy but I actually like the two no's. I actually agree with Lucas that it adds more drama to the scene, which scares the hell out of me.

That dance number though... jesus.

It's that second noooooo, it's so horribly overwrought it devalues the beautifully introspective moment that preceded it, when I'd swear you can actually see Vader struggling with his conscience.

The heck of it is, had Lucas done it that way to begin with then no-one would've had a problem with it and the NOOOOOOooooooOOOOOO! in Sith would've been a cute if equally goofy callback to Jedi (or pre-empting of it, depending on your viewing order). But now it feels like yet another alteration of the OT to match up with the PT when it REALLY should've been the other way around. Lucas was so determined to make the prequels his own way that he even disregarded the originals to a certain extent, figuring that he can just change them later or put other inconsistencies down to Obi-Wan's "certain point of view".

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Call me crazy but I actually like the two no's. I actually agree with Lucas that it adds more drama to the scene, which scares the hell out of me.

That dance number though... jesus.

What about this dance-off entitled:

"May the Force Be With Us"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SKYDAEb1MjI

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It appears to be there throughout the whole film, it's like ye olde telecine judder BUT it seems to affect the bottom half of the frame more than the top, it's really weird. If it's there on older transfers (gonna check the UOT DVD later) then that would point to it being an issue with the film elements themselves.

[edit] or by "elements" steel_breeze was talking about a problem with the anamorphic lenses themselves? I think they used glass from Joe Dunton rather than Panavision optics on Jedi.

I always thought it had to do with a bad anamorphic element during the telecine, but it very may well be baked into the original photography. I've also seen it show up on 70's - 80's John Carpenter movies (shot anamorphically).

[HeavyHitter]

I thought the scene was perfect with no "nooo" at all. Nothing had to be said and you could just sense the change in Vader's conscience as the camera stared into his mask given what was happening to Luke. It was a moment when no words needed to be said before picking up and throwing the Emperor. It was a very well done scene as originally done. I agree with others; Jedi is by far the worst of the three special editions because of this and the Jabba palace dance scene.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I thought the scene was perfect with no "nooo" at all. Nothing had to be said and you could just sense the change in Vader's conscience as the camera stared into his mask given what was happening to Luke. It was a moment when no words needed to be said before picking up and throwing the Emperor. It was a very well done scene as originally done. I agree with others; Jedi is by far the worst of the three special editions because of this and the Jabba palace dance scene.

With what Lucas did to the three original films makes them all pretty bad.

They really should have just fixed the optical composites digitally, restored the negatives, made a full surround remix (leaving a vintage Dolby Stereo track for the purists), and left it at that.

But Lucas went over the edge and started screwing with the story itself and making half-assed and even childish additions and replacements to these classics.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

With what Lucas did to the three original films makes them all pretty bad.

They really should have just fixed the optical composites digitally, restored the negatives, made a full surround remix (leaving a vintage Dolby Stereo track for the purists), and left it at that.

But Lucas went over the edge and started screwing with the story itself and making half-assed and even childish additions and replacements to these classics.

The story is still the same! Nothing changed!
The empire still gets beaten.
Vader and Palpatine still die.
Luke lives on.

In fact, one could argue that there was NO after-movie story thought of during the movie.
So, as far as we know, the empire was defeated and everyone has been partying on Endor for the last, what, 30 years?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

The story is still the same! Nothing changed!
The empire still gets beaten.
Vader and Palpatine still die.
Luke lives on.

In fact, one could argue that there was NO after-movie story thought of during the movie.
So, as far as we know, the empire was defeated and everyone has been partying on Endor for the last, what, 30 years?

Sure it did... tone, character issues, silly background action additions (Han and Jabba are buffoons rather than kick ass characters), added bits of unnecessary dialog or exclamations.

The basic story is the same... the changes alter the intent.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

After re-watching the 2011 version of "Return of the Jedi" tonight, I've warmed up to the updates more (except for the song/dance number in Jabba's palace and the Hayden Christiansen force ghost).

Funny enough, I had the opposite experience this week. I finally checked out one of the less "special" versions of ROTJ - and I was floored. I've been watching the SE all these years, F-FWD past the stupid song, but I really had no idea how much completely changed that entire sequence is.

The atmosphere is completely different. For the first time in many years, I saw the Jabba's Palace I remember as a kid in the theater - dark, a bit scary, and mysterious. It was a revelation. I just never realized how much junk and how much "lighter" the entire sequence was in the SE editions.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Terminated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=jLACxMXBRhM

I wish this actually happened.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by reason108

I only ever made it through part of the way on the SW Holiday Special before I stopped watching and promised myself that I would finish it later. Well, that has been a few years ago now....

I've seen it in its entirety 12 times already.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I've seen it in its entirety 12 times already.

So, you too have conversations with invisible Bea Arthur and Harvey Korman ?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I thought the scene was perfect with no "nooo" at all. Nothing had to be said and you could just sense the change in Vader's conscience as the camera stared into his mask given what was happening to Luke. It was a moment when no words needed to be said before picking up and throwing the Emperor. It was a very well done scene as originally done. I agree with others; Jedi is by far the worst of the three special editions because of this and the Jabba palace dance scene.

I don't think the "no" really explains anything, anyone with any sense knew what was happening. I just think it adds a little oomph to it, for lack of a better word. Also it comes after we see him silently change his mind.

That said I wouldn't be sad to lose it either. Honestly 90% of the changes fall into this "take 'em or leave 'em" category, they don't bring about much passion from me at all. It's really only the Han shooting thing, the added Jabba in New Hope, the change in Fett's voice and the Jedi dancing scene that bother me. Just remove those and I'm happy.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

That said I wouldn't be sad to lose it either. Honestly 90% of the changes fall into this "take 'em or leave 'em" category, they don't bring about much passion from me at all. It's really only the Han shooting thing, the added Jabba in New Hope, the change in Fett's voice and the Jedi dancing scene that bother me. Just remove those and I'm happy.

Ditch the Hayden force ghost and the Jar Jar "wesah free" crap on top of all of that, and I'd be okay with the rest of the changes. I don't care for the pacing getting interrupted in the Cloud City escape (shuttle landing scene), or the new emperor dialogue in ESB, but I could live with them if all the other things we mentioned were thrown out.

Ewoks blinking? I don't care.
Bunch of crap flying and walking around Mos Isley? Still don't care.
Slighly screwy lightsaber colors? Not that big of a deal.
Obiwan's dragon cry getting dumber and dumber? So what.
Artoo getting sealed in...eh, I can tolorate it.

It's all that other suff I can't stand.

[reason108]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I've seen it in its entirety 12 times already.

You are much braver than I!

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by reason108

You are much braver than I!

I also keep a copy on my iPad for those moments when I just want to put on my headphones and shut the world out.

I just wish it wasn't a crappy VHS rip. It sucks that the only copies are ones recorded off the TV in the 70s. I wish Disney would acquire the rights and, assuming the film print still exists, do an HD scan of it for blu-ray.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Terminated

What about this dance-off entitled:

"May the Force Be With Us"

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I also keep a copy on my iPad for those moments when I just want to put on my headphones and shut the world out.

I just wish it wasn't a crappy VHS rip. It sucks that the only copies are ones recorded off the TV in the 70s. I wish Disney would acquire the rights and, assuming the film print still exists, do an HD scan of it for blu-ray.

The Star Wars Holiday Special was shot on video.