Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still prefer Revill's line readings, McDiarmid sounds like he's just woken up from having a Sith power nap.

You don't know the power of a recliner

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, Revill only did the line readings. The old woman with monkey eyes being replaced was something I did not mind at all. Of all the SEs, Empire has the most...tasteful...changes IMO.

Hm. Revill sounds like an evil ghost. Not the Emperor we've come to know (and love/hate). I've seen Ady's redo on YouTube and it is the best of both worlds.

And what's wrong with an evil ghost? Nothing, that's what. The original Emperor was downright creepy in both look and performance IMO, I don't care that it's not the one we've come to know, it certainly didn't bother most people too much for the first 14 years of ROTJ's existence.

Heck, I'd go so far as to say that the replaced McDiarmid isn't the Emperor that we've come to know anyway, he's lacking the sarcastic sneer of his ROTJ performance and isn't doing much to channel his gurning ROTS persona either. It's a catatonic performance IMO and in that case it matters little to me that he's the 'definitive' Emperor actor.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by thegoat

You don't know the power of a recliner

UNLIMITED POW....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Thank God the Luke scream is gone...

Funny story: back in 96 a friend and I each made ESB home movies with the action figures. His was almost all from memory, so was mine but I also had a script. In both of ours Luke screamed on the fall down. And this was almost a year before the SEs came out in theaters. In January 97, even before Star Wars came out, I edited the two movies together to make my own "SE" and adr'd the whole thing using two microphones for real stereo sound (the snow speeders circling the at-Ats sounded pretty cool!). I forget if he screamed in that version. I haven't watched the SE for awhile and it was edited on SVHS and my SLV-R1000 is not reading video.

I honestly didn't even notice the scream was out of place when we watched it in the theater, and we had both watched the trilogy almost monthly through high school. We did pick up the two replaced lines ("Shelter built" and "Taste very good.") and all the altered/ added scenes, but inexplicably neither of us commented on the scream.

Oh and another interesting note that came to mind. When I saw ESB SE in the theater the second night, the floating Star Destoyer engine was still there (seen for a few frames during the first shot of the Executor) but on the VHS and laserdisc it was corrected. Not as significant as seeing part of a possible alternate sandstorm scene in Jedi back in 83, but still makes you wonder what else was changed during the SEs theatrical run or conversion to home video.

[Thomas Guycott]

Clive Revill's Emperor is one of my favorite things about The Empire Strikes Back.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

Not as significant as seeing part of a possible alternate sandstorm scene in Jedi back in 83

Are there people claiming they saw part of the sandstorm scene in the theater in 83?

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Are there people claiming they saw part of the sandstorm scene in the theater in 83?

No, only that they saw the Biggs scene from ANH on TV.

Which they didn't.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Are there people claiming they saw part of the sandstorm scene in the theater in 83?

I've posted before, but to keep it short I saw ROTJ in the opening weeks in the theater. Just after the sail barge there was a brief shot (a couple of seconds) of Han Solo walking towards the camera then it went to the reel change countdown, then back to space. It stood out because it was so out of place and the reel change was an interruption. I remember asking my mother as it happened what that was and she told me that they had to change reels during the movie. I had that image burned in for the rest of the movie and was confused by it. It wasn't until almost 20 years later that I put the two together as to what it could have been.

I had been told a number of times that I imagined it, but I have the memory from the time it happened and the effect it had during the movie. It wasn't something I "just recalled" years later. I was hoping to have some proof/ vindication when the Blu Ray came out, but the footage was not at all what I had seen. The image I saw was Han by himself center of the frame in the desert and it was a bright shot, there was no sandstorm. His shirt was very bright and it stood out, he wasn't wearing a cloak or blanket or whatever and he did not have goggles on.

My current belief is that there was an alternate scene shot to replace the sandstorm scene that was cut at the last minute however some footage remained at the end of a reel that should have been changed before the shot would have been seen. I've tried to confirm when the exact reel changes would have been (the timing is very close). It might at least help. The only other way to have any kind of proof would be a final shooting script (even one with notes) a call sheet, some recollection from the cast or crew (or someone from that screening of the film that day) or Lucas himself. I always get a bit more hope when I read about other "lost footage" or last minute cuts, or other films where alternate takes or scene pop up (like the Blade Runner work print).

You can say what you will about my memory and imagination and you are entitled to your opinion, but my memory from my youth is excellent and pretty much anything I can recall has been confirmed by photos, my parents or first hand accounts. I have very vivid images from when I was three and possibly two. (I remember watching An American Christmas Carol on our old black and white TV, I would have been either 2 years and 3 months or 3 years and 3 months). The movie was first on TV in 79 (when I was 2) but more likely it was rebroadcast in 80 (when I was 3). Either way, I also remember at the time knowing it was Henry Winkler from Happy Days. How many 3 year olds would be aware of something like that? Actually the other day we drove by an area we hadn't been to in at least 6 months and my daughter said, "that's where auntie lives!" She is three, and her "auntie" moved from that place last summer when my daughter was 2. The human brain's capacity for memory is incredible, and I understand how some memories change over time, but I for one will not give up on this.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

I've posted before, but to keep it short I saw ROTJ in the opening weeks in the theater. Just after the sail barge there was a brief shot (a couple of seconds) of Han Solo walking towards the camera then it went to the reel change countdown, then back to space. It stood out because it was so out of place and the reel change was an interruption. I remember asking my mother as it happened what that was and she told me that they had to change reels during the movie. I had that image burned in for the rest of the movie and was confused by it. It wasn't until almost 20 years later that I put the two together as to what it could have been.

Except it is impossible. They go from the skiff flying away directly into space with the Falcon and Luke's X-Wing with an uninterrupted music cue. NO prints would go out differently, either 35 or 70MM. I saw it opening week in 70MM and it's exactly the same on VHS, LD, SE LD, DVD, and now BD. The next reel change is when Luke hears Obi-Wan says "Yoda will always be with you" on Dagobah while he's talking to R2.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Hm. Revill sounds like an evil ghost. Not the Emperor we've come to know (and love/hate). I've seen Ady's redo on YouTube and it is the best of both worlds.

Whatever they did to him afterward the original voice and look was ten times more interesting. I'd rather have interesting than Lucas' anal focus on matching everything together.

What's really amusing is Lucas did a lot of changes to match the prequels and now I bet the Disney sequels mostly ignore the prequels and none of it is going to fit together well anyway. For example Lucas made it clear the original Stormtroopers were clones, but now they likely won't be.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

That's really amusing is Lucas did a lot of changes to match the prequels and now I bet the Disney sequels mostly ignore the prequels and none of it is going to fit together well anyway. For example Lucas made it clear the original Stormtroopers were clones, but now they likely won't be.

Except the Emperor change in Empire is in line with Jedi, not the prequels.

The new toy lines have prequel-era stuff.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Whatever they did to him afterward the original voice and look was ten times more interesting. I'd rather have interesting than Lucas' anal focus on matching everything together.

What's really amusing is Lucas did a lot of changes to match the prequels and now I bet the Disney sequels mostly ignore the prequels and none of it is going to fit together well anyway. For example Lucas made it clear the original Stormtroopers were clones, but now they likely won't be.

Did he really though? He made it clear the Clone Troopers were clones, but there's nothing in the movies that says whether or not the Imperial solders in the OT are. I always thought it'd make more sense for the Stormtroopers to be recruits as it's a lot more efficient and cheaper for the Empire to just recruit soldiers from all the systems they control than creating that many clones, for generations. Clone soldiers made more sense when an army had to be created in secret, but obviously there's no need for that once Palpatine has his Empire in place.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Did he really though? He made it clear the Clone Troopers were clones, but there's nothing in the movies that says whether or not the Imperial solders in the OT are. I always thought it'd make more sense for the Stormtroopers to be recruits as it's a lot more efficient and cheaper for the Empire to just recruit soldiers from all the systems they control than creating that many clones, for generations. Clone soldiers made more sense when an army had to be created in secret, but obviously there's no need for that once Palpatine has his Empire in place.

Yes, none of the novelizations refer to them as clones. They do mention conscripts.

[eddievanhalen]

And some stormtrooopers were taller than others.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Did he really though? He made it clear the Clone Troopers were clones, but there's nothing in the movies that says whether or not the Imperial solders in the OT are. I always thought it'd make more sense for the Stormtroopers to be recruits as it's a lot more efficient and cheaper for the Empire to just recruit soldiers from all the systems they control than creating that many clones, for generations. Clone soldiers made more sense when an army had to be created in secret, but obviously there's no need for that once Palpatine has his Empire in place.

I know for a fact he says in the commentary for Attack of the Clones that all the stormtroopers in the original trilogy are the same clones.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I know for a fact he says in the commentary for Attack of the Clones that all the stormtroopers in the original trilogy are the same clones.

It's been a long time (over a decade in fact) since I listened to the commentaries for the movies, so if he does I forgot it. That doesn't really make sense to me though, since the clones age twice as fast as a normal human being that would put the PT era Clone Troopers in their 60's or thereabouts in the OT.

And they clearly don't sound the same either. Lucas could've easily dubbed all their lines over with Temuera Morrison like he did with Boba for consistency's sake, but he didn't. So, regardless of what he's said in the past, the evidence in the films themselves seems to point to the contrary, and now that Disney/Lucasfilm have decided they aren't clones there's really no contradiction in that.

[stvn1974]

I wonder why Lucas didn't have Temuera Morrison do the stormtrooper's voices in ANH like he did with Fett in Empire when he ruined the films for the BD release?

Plus the Clones could actually hit stuff when they shot at them. Stormtroopers can't hit the broad side of a Star Destroyer.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

So, regardless of what he's said in the past, the evidence in the films themselves seems to point to the contrary, and now that Disney/Lucasfilm have decided they aren't clones there's really no contradiction in that.

I mean, I guess. I don't really feel passionate about it either way, to be honest, but it did seem clear to me the intention was they were the same dudes. Accelerated growth to maturity, but not necessarily after that. Lucas saying as much on the commentary seems important to me, but it doesn't really matter anymore, you're right.

Anyway whatevs, I just think it will be funny when the new stuff contradicts the prequels because people will be torn between wanting continuity but disliking the prequel films.

[chip75]

Lucas saying that the OT troopers were clones makes no sense, all the young guys in the galaxy were signed up to serve the Empire, that's were Biggs went before jumping ship, that's were Luke wanted to go.

It makes sense to draft what could be potentially be an opposition army into your service. Once the clones suited their purpose after the Jedi uprising Palpatine would have retired them and anyone who was involved with their making.

I sort of remember the comment, but I can't put it in context.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Originally Posted by chip75

Lucas saying that the OT troopers were clones makes no sense.

The fact that they all had different voices and were of different heights kind of precludes them from being clones in the OT, anyway. Lucas did and said a lot of things that made no sense during the Prequels' time.