Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Neon Rabbit]

I've been considering unloading my DVDs of the Saga including the 2006 LEs of the OT on Amazon or eBay and possibly putting the money aside for an eventual quality release of the UOT that hopefully comes to fruition.

I have the Blu-Ray set of the Saga and I never watch the 2006 LE bonus discs anymore. I have one of the fan preservations, It's a 7 disc set with loads of bonus features from the LDs, the LE DVD transfers animorphically enhanced with burned in alien subs, multiple audio mixes, and the ability to choose which title crawl to watch for the original film. Not positive but I think it's called The Rebellion Collection? I usually watch those whenever I want to see the unaltered versions.

[bandit29]

The original voice actor for Boba Fett, Jason Wingreen, has passed away. He was also Archie Bunker's bartender. Go figure

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/jason-w...214107881.html

[Neon Rabbit]

Yeah, it's ironic the role he is arguably most known for hasn't existed in the film for over 10 years now. An entire generation of kids had grown up thinking Boba Fett sounds like Jango instead of an unrelenting badass.

[CoalClear]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe. I suspect you're overestimating the commercial appeal of the UOT but who knows. Some people prefer the SEs and most people are content with them. Is there even the remotest chance of Disney losing money on any future UOT release(s)? Absolutely not. There's really no conceivable scenario under which a UOT release isn't profitable.

There's a pile of UOT money out there. I just think it's a lot smaller than a lot people think it is.

It's not a money issue, it's not a rights issue, the unaltered movies someday have to be released, you sort of just have to trust in the force.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by octagon

He sold a studio to another studio. That's all that happened.

It's not like Lucas and Lucasfilm has been some independent bulwark holding back the tide of the studio system. Lucas and Lucasfilm were part of the studio system and had been for quite some time.

The only real difference is Lucas' version of the studio system was a little more reminiscent of the mogul era. That's pretty much it.

Well, yeah, sure. He wasn't some 'independent bulwark holding back the tide of the studio system' in those aggrandized terms, except that in some small way he was. Of those 70's filmmakers who thrived on telling independent stories that would be then distributed by studios before they were completely subsumed by them, he was the one who had enough money to essentially keep telling independent stories and then have them distributed by the studios. Coppola was pretty much crushed by the system as soon he let his hubris get in the way and spent too much studio money with Apocalypse Now- after coming out of independence, by all accounts for totally mercenary/non-artistic reasons, to make two of the greatest commercial pop art films of all time in Godfather I and II. Scorsese worked for a pittance and still works for a comparative pittance and still gets told what to do by the studios who fund his projects- and if ANYone deserves complete autonomy and a grant funded from taxpayer money to make whatever the hell he wants to make it's him. Depalma- same thing in terms of how he's treated by studios, though he's by no means in the same company as Scorsese or Coppola. Spielberg has been the one who didn't come out of independence but brought an independent sensibility to everything he's done in that he was and is a force of nature that can compete with any and all commercial and independent filmmakers by virtue of his talent. And I'm so glad he did and does.

Which brings us back to Lucas. Who put his own money in his projects and essentially functioned as an independent filmmaker successfully manipulating a studio system that monopolizes everything- an ideal that is as American as it gets to me and is something to be celebrated. Except the movies he made in the last twenty years weren't as good. But on the strength of the original trilogy and Indiana Jones, he has my good will. If he talks smack and comes across as curmudgeonly in his golden years, okay. So did my grandpa. It doesn't invalidate his achievements.

The thing is, I think we're agreeing on Lucas' problems, but the difference is I don't think it's a black-and-white situation where we can say "Oh, it's all this way and that's that and so he's dead to me." Sorry to simplify your thoughts, but for me it's not as simple as he sold his company to another company. I don't think we'd be here still discussing him if that were really the case.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

On the subject of the OUT (lol, when aren't we talking about it ), I finally ordered J.W. Rinzler's The Making of Star Wars after procrastinating for 8 years (I'm amazed they're still selling the hardcover editions of these books). That should definitely provide a nice blast of old school Star Wars nostalgia.

[Norbie]

Originally Posted by tigertron

I regret throwing away my DVDs too. I had no idea Fox would omit a ton of extras that were included on the DVDs.

I found some of them on YouTube, so there is that if desperate.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by happydood

The thing is, I think we're agreeing on Lucas' problems, but the difference is I don't think it's a black-and-white situation where we can say "Oh, it's all this way and that's that and so he's dead to me." Sorry to simplify your thoughts, but for me it's not as simple as he sold his company to another company. I don't think we'd be here still discussing him if that were really the case.

Were it not for Lucas' pig-headedness in refusing to allow the original versions of the OT to be released on a modern video format (note that Laserdisc-derived 4:3 letterboxed video transfers from 1993 lazily slapped on a DVD don't count), I think that most of us would quite fondly think of him as a once-great storyteller who "went to a nice farm upstate" sometime around 1989 (just after Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade, the last decent film he was involved in) and speak no more ill of him.

Until that cinematic crime is rectified by Disney, Lucas' precipitous decline will continue to be a topic of frequent discussion.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

To follow on from what happydood said about the studio system being reborn, it's deliciously ironic that 'Mr Independent Filmmaker' not only propped up the ailing system in the first place with the original Star Wars (following on from Señor Spielbergo with Jaws a couple years earlier) but has bolstered Disney for the foreseeable future thanks to him selling LFL to them (on top of Pixar and Marvel ). If it was that much of a wrench for Lucas then he shouldn't have bloody well done it, it's not like he needed the money!

Indeed, it is ironic.

Though it's also true that there's really never been an easier time for an independent filmmaker to grab a camera and make a movie. The chances of it catching on and giving you a career is slim, but hundreds of indie movies are made every year. Reading some "top ten" lists across the web for 2015 and half the movies I have never even heard of. They're everywhere. Georgie should support them with his 4 billion.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

On the subject of the OUT (lol, when aren't we talking about it ), I finally ordered J.W. Rinzler's The Making of Star Wars after procrastinating for 8 years (I'm amazed they're still selling the hardcover editions of these books). That should definitely provide a nice blast of old school Star Wars nostalgia.

All three of Rinzler's books are superb, they're a fascinating look at the day to day making of the OT.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by svenge

Were it not for Lucas' pig-headedness in refusing to allow the original versions of the OT to be released on a modern video format (note that Laserdisc-derived 4:3 letterboxed video transfers from 1993 lazily slapped on a DVD don't count), I think that most of us would quite fondly think of him as a once-great storyteller who "went to a nice farm upstate" sometime around 1989 (just after Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade, the last decent film he was involved in) and speak no more ill of him.

Until that cinematic crime is rectified by Disney, Lucas' precipitous decline will continue to be a topic of frequent discussion.

And I'm by no means saying it shouldn't be a topic of frequent discussion. Which is why I'm here. And why you're here, I presume, so I guess we all keep fighting the good fight and hope we find the means to make our points clear.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by svenge

Were it not for Lucas' pig-headedness in refusing to allow the original versions of the OT to be released on a modern video format (note that Laserdisc-derived 4:3 letterboxed video transfers from 1993 lazily slapped on a DVD don't count), I think that most of us would quite fondly think of him as a once-great storyteller who "went to a nice farm upstate" sometime around 1989 (just after Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade, the last decent film he was involved in) and speak no more ill of him.

Until that cinematic crime is rectified by Disney, Lucas' precipitous decline will continue to be a topic of frequent discussion.

I agree with most of that but sadly I think the criticism will continue even if Disney does release the OUT since Lucas isnt involved anymore. I think if Lucas had properly restored them and reissued them while he was still in charge much of the criticism would have degraded by now.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

I want to live in happydood's world where George Lucas is Frank Perry.

"Man this Last Summer Special Edition is BS, Barbara Hershey raped first!"

My world is admittedly pretty wonderful, but I have no idea who Frank Perry is.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

I agree with most of that but sadly I think the criticism will continue even if Disney does release the OUT since Lucas isnt involved anymore. I think if Lucas had properly restored them and reissued them while he was still in charge much of the criticism would have degraded by now.

And I guess this is the part I just fail to understand.

I go to a restaurant and have amazing service and one of the best meals I've ever had. Then, I go back because it was so good, but there's a strange and unfamiliar ingredient that makes it taste and look close to how it did before, but it's not as good. I decide to give them the benefit of the doubt and I go one more time. Now, the meal doesn't even slightly resemble the first time and I'm not sure what to make of it, so I decide maybe I won't patronize them anymore, but I still got something to eat. BUT... my memories of that first meal are so good, I decide to figure out how to make it at home.

The first meal= Star Wars, the second meal= the special editions, the third meal= the prequels. When I make it at home, I'm despecialized.

Now, a lot of the vitriol feels like going out of my way to drive by the restaurant on the regular and shake my fist at them. I don't actually go there anymore, so they don't get my money and probably don't even realize I'm driving by to shake my fist. They're still full of people enjoying their dinner. The only thing shaking my fist does is keep me mad.

[rexcrk]

I was watching Empire Strikes Back again lol and I was thinking, even if no one bothers remastering the original theatrical cuts, they should at LEAST give the current masters an upgrade. There's no excuse for the lightsabers to look so shitty during Luke and Vader's duel.

[Neon Rabbit]

To me, the most insulting thing Lucas has done in his quest to completely erase the original cuts of the OT from history is that since 2000 he has tried to pretend as if no other version of the film exists.

The 2000 VHS release of the Trilogy was the first time the SE was released on video without any mention on the packaging that these were not the original versions of the films, and with every subsequent video release he continued to make even more alterations and has only ever acknowledged any changes when directly confronted about them in an interview or something.

There is even a special feature on the Blu-Ray where you can view original matte paintings and watch it transition to the actual sequence in which each one was respectively used in, but in certain instances the sequence they fade to has been so hevily altered with CG that it no longer even resembles the original matte paining the are comparing it to.

[Scarface32]

They should make a full length movie like this:

starwars - gangster rap (original) - YouTube

That video is better than anything in the Blu-ray alterations.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Neon Rabbit

The 2000 VHS release of the Trilogy was the first time the SE was released on video without any mention on the packaging that these were not the original versions of the films

I remember that. I was too young and naive to realize the implications, though. I actually loved the '97 Special Editions at the time. They made me the Star Wars fanatic I am today, and I was drinking the cool-aid George was serving about them being the "Definitive" versions (though nostalgia actually makes them feel more "definitive" to me than what would follow on DVD and Blu-ray).

Plus, to a young kid, the cleaner, shinier version with more footage and enhanced special effects was, of course, going to be the "better" version. I remember getting so excited when I finally got to pick up the gold Special Edition trilogy set on VHS (I still have it on my shelf for sentimental value). Truth be told, I'd even really love it if those versions were made available via seamless branching alongside the originals if/when they are restored.

At the time, I had no concept of the evolving nature of home video formats, and that those original films would be relegated to old, out-of-date video masters for the next couple decades (and, if I'm honest, as a young kid I didn't really care).

What a difference time and perspective makes.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

I remember that. I was too young and naive to realize the implications, though. I actually loved the '97 Special Editions at the time. They made me the Star Wars fanatic I am today, and I was drinking the cool-aid George was serving about them being the "Definitive" versions (though nostalgia actually makes them feel more "definitive" to me than what would follow on DVD and Blu-ray).

Plus, to a young kid, the cleaner, shinier version with more footage and enhanced special effects was, of course, going to be the "better" version. I remember getting so excited when I finally got to pick up the gold Special Edition trilogy set on VHS (I still have it on my shelf for sentimental value). Truth be told, I'd even really love it if those versions were made available via seamless branching alongside the originals if/when they are restored.

At the time, I had no concept of the evolving nature of home video formats, and that those original films would be relegated to old, out-of-date video masters for the next couple decades (and, if I'm honest, as a young kid I didn't really care).

What a difference time and perspective makes.

The 1997 SE versions had some good things, such as an expanded view of Cloud City in V. But it also had the bad, such as stepping on Jabba's tail and that stupid facial expression he makes in IV.

I much preferred the 1997 alternations to anything in the 2004 DVD or 2011 BD. For one thing, Shaw was still in Return of the Jedi in 1997, that was my biggest problem with the DVD release, and why I quickly jumped on the 2006 DVD release that had the originals on a second bonus disc.

I also have the 1997 SE on VHS on my shelf.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by Norbie

I found some of them on YouTube, so there is that if desperate.

There are some used DVD stores that carry the trilogy bonus DVD as well. I bought it separately for $1 and sit it next to my blus. I do miss my prequel special features as some of the documentaries and deleted scenes were quite good and genereally more memorable and interesting than anything on the saga set.

I'm one who prefers the originals but doesn't find the special editions unwatchabe and likes some of the changes. Mostly, it's just annoying to evaluate and judge each one. If Vader's "Noooo" was there since 83, I doubt most of us would have ever batted an eye at it, but since it's blatantly new, it's just distracting. New backgrounds and updated spaceship shots are fine because they don't call much attention to themselves (same with minor things like Shaw's eyebrows and blinking puppets).

I prefer to watch the blus on my projector, easily. They look pretty great. But on my small screen, Harmy's work is the definite go-to. Incorporating the HD audio, when possibe, was a wonderful touch and rocks my sound system the way Star Wars should. If Lucasfilm ever puts out the originals on Blu, I'd buy them without hesitation.