Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

He's a producer, not a director. Why is it that Lucas worshippers don't like Gary Kurtz? He produced what are considered by far the best Star Wars films. Do you feel that acknowledging him somewhat lessens Lucas' "genius" or something?

Why do the haters feel the need to use the word "worshipper"?


Fact is Kurtz is overrated and hasn't been successful on his own. He needed Lucas a lot more than Lucas needed him.

Who cares? You must think Transformers is a masterpiece, since it made a fortune.

Find another argument. I remember the critics at the time were pretty harsh as well on Oz. Time has been kinder but it still was a mess.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Who cares? You must think Transformers is a masterpiece, since it made a fortune.

I don't know about masterpiece, ut boy does that series have serious eye and ear candy which equate to popcorn flick of highest order.

I am glad that films like it and the Star Wars series keep people going to the movies.

For crying out loud, Michael Bay has 3D Imax (as in two I max cameras taped together, no post convert . .I am so there dude!!) Long live the movie theater experience.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You mean the work of Jim Henson, Walter Murch and their teams?


Return to Oz bombed (hard) by the way.

George Lucas ghost-directed when Walter Murch had a nervous breakdown during principal photography (studio leadership changed hands, Murch was pummeled by new studio lead Richard Berger for going over-budget and falling behind schedule). Return to Oz ain't great, but there's some cool ideas in that movie. Murch was eventually re-instated after lobbying from Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola.

Shoot, guys, Walt had box-office bombs, too...you know, those duds Pinocchio, Fantasia, and Bambi. Bambi didn't break even until its third release. Walt never lived to see Fantasia go into the black.

And yeah, 1985 was a rough year for the Disney studio...Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend, The Black Cauldron, Return to Oz, The Journey of Natty Gann (terrific, by the way, finally available in OAR in the States via DMA).

[Nicolawicz]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

George Lucas ghost-directed and finished it when Walter Murch had a nervous breakdown during principal photography.

Ha, PeterTHX is going to love that movie now.

[Ernest Rister]

Lucas on the set of Return to Oz...

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Lucas on the set of Return to Oz...

That is a classic picture! Kinda ironic too if it isn't photo shopped.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

George Lucas ghost-directed when Walter Murch had a nervous breakdown during principal photography (studio leadership changed hands, Murch was pummeled by new studio lead Richard Berger for going over-budget and falling behind schedule). Return to Oz ain't great, but there's some cool ideas in that movie. Murch was eventually re-instated after lobbying from Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola.

Shoot, guys, Walt had box-office bombs, too...you know, those duds Pinocchio, Fantasia, and Bambi. Bambi didn't break even until its third release. Walt never lived to see Fantasia go into the black.

And yeah, 1985 was a rough year for the Disney studio...Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend, The Black Cauldron, Return to Oz, The Journey of Natty Gann (terrific, by the way, finally available in OAR in the States via DMA).

What don't you like about The Black Cauldron?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

What don't you like about The Black Cauldron?

I'd break the Blu-Ray.com servers explaining it. In a nutshell, there's some bad staging and inexperienced animation, the stakes of the story shift half-way through, there's no real relationship between the protagonist and antagonist, and the threat of the film was neutered by Jeffrey Katzenberg, who demanded 10 minutes be trimmed from it, and eventually cut 12. The uncut Cauldron is one of those films considered by myself to be a "lost film" because it was scored and largely finished before Katzenberg took the scissors to it trying to "relieve the darkness" of the movie. Still, some terrific f/x animation and ambition in that film, the score is flat-out fantastic, it just makes my heart hurt trying to watch it, because we're missing 12 minutes of it, and the creative team wasn't up to the challenge of crafting a solid story, and the staging is awkward and unassured. So...I have some respect for aspects of it, wish the uncut version would ever see the light of day, not that they would fix the staging or character animation in certain moments or the story, but at least we'd have a the version that was intended. It is what is, I just don't choose to watch it. Despite all of that, I think it's still better than Oliver and Co., Brother Bear, Robin Hood, Chicken Little, Dinosaur and Home on the Range. For a movie so mangled, that should tell you how I feel about Oliver and Co., Robin Hood, Dinosaur, Chicken Little, Brother Bear, and Home on the Range.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'd break the Blu-Ray.com servers explaining it. In a nutshell, there's some bad staging and inexperienced animation, the stakes of the story shift half-way through, there's no real relationship between the protagonist and antagonist, and the threat of the film was neutered by Jeffrey Katzenberg, who demanded 10 minutes be trimmed from it, and eventually cut 12. The uncut Cauldron is one of those films considered by myself to be a "lost film" because it was scored and largely finished before Katzenberg took the scissors to it trying to "relieve the darkness" of the movie. Still, some terrific f/x animation and ambition in that film, the score is flat-out fantastic, it just makes my heart hurt trying to watch it, because we're missing 12 minutes of it, and the creative team wasn't up to the challenge of crafting a solid story, and the staging is awkward and unassured. So...I have some respect for aspects of it, wish the uncut version would ever see the light of day, not that they would fix the staging or character animation in certain moments or the story, but at least we'd have a the version that was intended. It is what is, I just don't choose to watch it. Despite all of that, I think it's still better than Oliver and Co., Brother Bear, Robin Hood, Chicken Little, Dinosaur and Home on the Range. For a movie so mangled, that should tell you how I feel about Oliver and Co., Robin Hood, Dinosaur, Chicken Little, Brother Bear, and Home on the Range.

How could you hate Robin Hood? The others you mentioned were ok films, but Robin Hood is an awesome film. I just wish Disney didn't f-up the Blu-ray, the hand drawn lines are pretty much all wiped away from excessive use of DNR.

As for TBC, it has a magic sword. That's one thing going for it.

[ElvisForever]

You know people talk about Lucas, but Disney screwed up Pinnochio big time. When I see the old VHS tapes and the original lobby cards and the books that I had as a kid I think...are these fools color blind???

I HATE the scrubbed jacked color scheme.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Nicolawicz

Ha, PeterTHX is going to love that movie now.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

How could you hate Robin Hood? The others you mentioned were ok films, but Robin Hood is an awesome film. I just wish Disney didn't f-up the Blu-ray, the hand drawn lines are pretty much all wiped away from excessive use of DNR.

As for TBC, it has a magic sword. That's one thing going for it.

I don't hate Robin Hood, compared to dreck like Sing, it's Lawrence of Arabia. BUT....Robin Hood has a number of issues -- recycled and re-drawn animation from shorts and features is a big one (I don't blame the animators, they had to make do with the budget they were given), bigger problem is the story. It's the only version of Robin Hood I've ever seen where Robin *runs away* and doesn't defeat and overcome the villains. Then we cut to a rooster stepping out from behind a tree and telling the audience, "You know, I thought we'd never get rid of those two rascals, but lucky for us, King Richard returned, and, well, he just straightened everything out. Hey! Let's get to the Church! Sounds like someone's getting hitched!"

Can you imagine Star Wars ending like that? C3PO stepping out from behind a pillar on Yavin, saying, "You know, I thought we'd never get get rid of that pesky ol' Death Star, but lucky for us, Luke and Han flew up there, and well, they just straightened everything out. Hey! Let's get to the temple! Sounds like someone's getting some medals!"

Robin Hood plays like episodes from a tv show.

MAID MARION (playing pretend with Skippy the Rabbit)
So! This is Sherewood Forest!

SKIPPY THE RABBIT
Yeah, I guess so.

MAID MARION
What does this entire scene have to do with the rest of the movie?

SKIPPY THE RABBIT
Beats the @#%$ out of me.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

That is a classic picture! Kinda ironic too if it isn't photo shopped.

Don't know why Disney would photoshop a picture from an obscure 31 year old movie. Lucas was there, helping out.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Then we cut to a rooster stepping out from behind a tree and telling the audience, ...

Because the Rooster started the film. It's called bookending. They did the same thing in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Jack Lemmon on the golf course starts and ends the film.

Can you imagine Star Wars ending like that?

Star Wars doesn't open that way though, so it would make no sense.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Because the Rooster started the film. It's called bookending. They did the same thing in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Jack Lemmon on the golf course starts and ends the film.



Star Wars doesn't open that way though, so it would make no sense.

I don't think you get my point...the central conflict isn't resolved on screen.

JACK CRAWFORD
You know, I thought we'd never get rid of that ol' Buffalo Bill, but lucky for us, Starling found him, and well, she just straightened everything out. Hey! Let's get to the auditorium! Sounds like some students are graduating!

[Ernest Rister]

MAYOR VAUGHN
You know, I thought we'd never get rid of that big ol' killer shark, but lucky for us, Martin, Quint, and Hooper got on a boat, and, well...everything turned out all right. Hey, I hear some paddlin'! Let's get to the beach!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Because the Rooster started the film. It's called bookending. They did the same thing in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Jack Lemmon on the golf course starts and ends the film.

Bookend or not his point is you don't really see Robin "win", just the deux ex machina of King Richard returning out of nowhere and resolving everything.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Don't know why Disney would photoshop a picture from an obscure 21 year old movie. Lucas was there, helping out.

Ya know because it is impossible right??? Why would you think only Disney could do it???

Chill out Batman. I simply was commenting on the pic and wasn't sure because it looked funny. It happens all the time and software can make it very hard to tell.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Ya know because it is impossible right??? Why would you think only Disney could do it???

Chill out Batman. I simply was commenting on the pic and wasn't sure because it looked funny. It happens all the time and software can make it very hard to tell.

Man, the internet is a strange place...I wasn't out of sorts in the slightest. That photo is from the D23 article celebrating the 35th Anniversary. Sorry if you got the wrong idea.

[StingingVelvet]

I didn't teach any classes this semester for health reasons but I was at work today doing some GED training classes. One guy there was a 40ish year old dude I talked movies with a bit and he mentioned he's never seen any Star Wars movie. I asked him why not and he said "that space shit is like kiddie toys man."

He also told me he's seen "the whole Harry Potter trilogy."