Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by WestMan

1. Burnt helmet not burnt.
2. Lost lightsaber randomly found.
3. Luke at peace and then a hermit.
4. Han and Leia happy and then separatedo
5. The Empire destroyed... yet is back just under different name.

And there is proof it was ignored. The writer of Episode 7 (Kasdan) was at odds with Lucas at the end of Episode 6 about how it should end. Lucas obviously won out. And yet Kasdan's original idea for the episode 6 ending is basically what he wrote for Episode 7. Luke on his own. Leia acting as a leader. And Han dead.

Episode 6 to 7 is the worst transition from any movie in chronological order. It is absolutely jarring if you watch them in order.

I mean, I'll be the first to admit that TFA has its issues (I've said before, it doesn't have many problems but the problems it has are fairly big ones IMHO), but I just don't think those are among them. The movies are 30 years apart, a lot happens in that much time. Hell, Han and Leia WERE together for a long time until a few years before TFA happens, the Empire IS destroyed but a new faction has arisen called the First Order (although from where and with who's help are valid questions that I hope will be answered). Vader's helmet clearly is burned, the lightsaber being found has nothing to do with the ending of Jedi since it was lost in Empire, and Luke becoming a hermit is explained well enough in the movie: he was a Jedi, started training others, then shit got real and he bounced because that's what Jedi do lol

[Member-167298]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The First Order ≠ The Empire.

Ok, now I am lost. Who is "The First Order" and why are they basically The Empire?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by WestMan

They are the same. Just a different name. Disney went back to the same exact well. You would have to be more blind then the Jedi from Rebels not to see that.

No, they aren't. The Empire was the legitimate government of the galaxy and had a fully functional army and control of most of the galaxy except for a few outer rim planets. The First Order is a coalition army with little to no real governmental power that was opposed by the New Republic, but they weren't at war (the Republic financed the Resistance to fight the First Order instead). However, the solar system the First Order destroyed with Starkiller Base was the Republic Capital planet and the adjacent core Republic planets, which means the First Order is pretty much now the largest army in the galaxy, unless some republic units were deployed somewhere, meaning the First Order is free to do whatever it wants now.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by WestMan

1. Burnt helmet not burnt.

Looks pretty damaged to me. Do you assume it was made out of cheap crap?

Originally Posted by WestMan

2. Lost lightsaber randomly found.

People never find things that someone else lost?



Seriously... WT*

Originally Posted by WestMan

3. Luke at peace and then a hermit.

Not only was this explained in the film, but WT*

Originally Posted by WestMan

4. Han and Leia happy and then separatedo

Yeah, because that never happens in the real world.

Originally Posted by WestMan

5. The Empire destroyed... yet is back just under different name.

The Empire wasn't destroyed. The Death Star II and Palpatine were destroyed. Not the same thing.

[Caseyscott]

Originally Posted by WestMan

I could compared Episode 7 to each of the prequel movies individually... and it still feels hollow. The depth of the prequels is highly underrated.

The prequels have no depth at all. They have a lot of plot, but no depth.

[starr]

3. Luke at peace and then a hermit.

it's hinted that something happened at a jedi academy Luke had started.

it's kind of obvious that Kylo was in the academy and he went batcrap crazy and killed a bunch of kids.

luke feels he failed, and went into hiding.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by frogmort

Just in case someone hasn't seen this new extended version yet:

"SEAGULLS! (Stop It Now)" -- A Bad Lip Reading of The Empire Strikes Back - YouTube

Ah ... the memories. It's exactly like I remember it from my childhood.

[Alan_Grant]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Kylo Ren wasn't remotely emo. He had a temper problem and was prone to flying off the hook, but he wasn't emo. He is clearly an unstable man and the temper tantrums are a great demonstration of that. The dude is no way in control of his emotions.

Anakin does it, and he's a whiny ****. Kylo Ren does it, and it's excellent writing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[fontcow]

[imsounoriginal]

Obi-Wan was older, had already been fighting swarms of droids and those fantastic beasts in the arena before he went down. Yeah he probably should've hung around a little longer but I'll cut him some slack. I wouldn't consider Kylo weak or a wimp for fighting through that blaster shot, but I do think he should've been able to handle Finn more easily (and maybe Rey, but she's apparently the walking embodiment of The Force...).

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Obi-Wan was older, had already been fighting swarms of droids and those fantastic beasts in the arena before he went down. Yeah he probably should've hung around a little longer but I'll cut him some slack. I wouldn't consider Kylo weak or a wimp for fighting through that blaster shot, but I do think he should've been able to handle Finn more easily (and maybe Rey, but she's apparently the walking embodiment of The Force...).

Not to mention they can't show gory open wounds in a PG film. Obi-Wan's arm and leg were probably slashed pretty deep, cutting into the muscles that allow you to move. You can't really show that.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not to mention they can't show gory open wounds in a PG film. Obi-Wan's arm and leg were probably slashed pretty deep, cutting into the muscles that allow you to move. You can't really show that.

There was that one bit where Padmé's back was slashed by one of the beasts.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not to mention they can't show gory open wounds in a PG film. Obi-Wan's arm and leg were probably slashed pretty deep, cutting into the muscles that allow you to move. You can't really show that.

The insert of the bloody severed arm in the Cantina was added in post to prevent Star Wars from receiving a G rating. Not arguing, just sharing.

[WestMan]

A random blast versus a skilled Sith hitting exactly the most painful spot to maximize damage.

Yeah.... Those two are comparable....:

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Lucas isn't a "hack". Just because someone chooses not be involved with inferior sequels doesn't mean he longer cares about the story. Sometimes the way to be better at presenting your material is to go with letting someone else take over the reigns...because it is a losing battle trying to beat the original. You can in most cases, have someone else do their best and you just might come closer with a fresh outlook and less interference.

However, I think if Lucas had no interference the world truly never saw his full capability as a young man with drive. Although him being sensitive, I think he may have broke down anyway. That world of leaving him alone is a pipe dream.

You're making it sound like Lucas's reason for not directing the sequels is because he knew he couldn't top Star Wars. I don't think that's accurate. Doesn't Lucas like Return of the Jedi more than the first two? I remember him saying it was closer to his vision than the first two movies were. Anyway, he seemed more concerned with making Star Wars toys than directing. I think that's the reason he didn't direct the sequels.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by WestMan

A random blast versus a skilled Sith hitting exactly the most painful spot to maximize damage.

Yeah.... Those two are comparable....:

Kylo has to have his support no matter the cost!

BTW, isn't it a little annoying that he can take off the helmet whenever he wants? What is the point? I about split a gut when he threw his little tantrum.

Vader gets mad, you get choked out. Kylo gets mad, you have to call tech support!

[Alfred E. Neumann]

[WhySoBlu?]

Originally Posted by WestMan

A random blast versus a skilled Sith hitting exactly the most painful spot to maximize damage.

Wait - you think that the arm and the leg are the "most painful spot{s} to maximize damage" on a human body? Not the chest, abdomen, neck, or head?

And you think Chewie's shot was random?

Fascinating...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

There was that one bit where Padmé's back was slashed by one of the beasts.

Large kitty cat scratches really (and a means to show her abs).

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The insert of the bloody severed arm in the Cantina was added in post to prevent Star Wars from receiving a G rating. Not arguing, just sharing.

Kids are incredibly sheltered these days. Beneath The Planet of the Apes was rated G and had people getting shot by guns with bloody squib hits, not to mention the unmasked mutant nuke worshippers and bleeding ape statue illusion were the stuff of nightmares.


Lilo & Stitch came out the same year Attack of the Clones did and was rated PG for "Sci-Fi Mayhem", there's nothing in that film that would terrify a small child or anything non-cartoonishly violent.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Alan_Grant

Anakin does it, and he's a whiny ****. Kylo Ren does it, and it's excellent writing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Making Anakin a whiny, self-absorbed douche is not, in and of itself, the problem.

The problem is you can't make Anakin a whiny, self-absorbed douche without making Darth Vader a whiny, self-absorbed douche.

I don't totally buy into the characterization of Kylo Ren as a whiny, emo douche but there's definitely enough there to support the people who do see him that way. But even accepting that premise, in this case whiny emo douche is the starting point for the character. Whiny emo douche is the character to whom we're being introduced and it's entirely possible we're going to see that whiny emo douche turn into a pretty cool badass character over the course of the next two films.

Contrast that with Anakin/Darth Vader where we were introduced to a really cool badass character that was then reduced to being a whiny, self-absorbed douche.

That's a much tougher sell.

Not an impossible sell, mind you. That could have worked if the transformation from whiny douche to cool badass was more effective but it kinda wasn't. The seeds of 'whiny douche > badass Jedi > tragically fallen hero' were all there but they never really come together in an emotionally compelling way.

Oh well, whatayagonnado.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

BTW, isn't it a little annoying that he can take off the helmet whenever he wants? What is the point?

The helmet is clearly at least in part an affectation. The fact that the helmet is part of a persona he's adopted is the point.

And no, it wasn't annoying.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Vader gets mad, you get choked out. Kylo gets mad, you have to call tech support!

I wonder how much Geek Squad charges to resurrect slaughtered villagers.