Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Please. She had a stroke due to the stress of losing her daughter. There's zero evidence of her losing the will to live. Let's not sully this woman's death by trying to use it to justify lazy writing.

Reynolds' son, Todd Fisher, told TMZ her last words were, "I miss her so much, I want to be with Carrie."

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by WhySoBlu?

Please. She had a stroke due to the stress of losing her daughter. There's zero evidence of her losing the will to live. Let's not sully this woman's death by trying to use it to justify lazy writing.

Lazy writing? Come on. There are many documented cases of people dying right after a child or spouse died. They absolutely can lose to will to live.

It wasn't lazy writing in Episode 3. Her last words being: "I miss her so much, I want to be with Carrie."

That is somebody who is just letting go. So sad. Glad she is at peace.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by WestMan

Debbie Reynolds, Carrie Fisher's mom, has died.

Life imitating art...

In Star Wars, Leia's mom (Padme) loses the will to live after Leia is born.

In real life, Carrie's mom loses the will to live after Carrie dies.

Super sad for the family.

A little tragic irony.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by WestMan

It wasn't lazy writing in Episode 3.

The last thing it was is "lazy writing." If anything, it makes you hate Padme. You just gave birth to two children and you lose the will to live because of some psychopath you're in love with? She's an idiot.

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

The last thing it was is "lazy writing." If anything, it makes you hate Padme. You just gave birth to two children and you lose the will to live because of some psychopath you're in love with? She's an idiot.

Nah, I felt bad for her.

1. She probably assumed he was dead when Obi-Wan came back.

2. The man she loved just wasn't a bad guy. He did unthinkable things. He killed his friends, he killed little children. He helped with the formation of a dictatorship.

3. He not only physically abused her.... He did so with a force choke.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by WestMan

Nah, I felt bad for her.

1. She probably assumed he was dead when Obi-Wan came back.

2. The man she loved just wasn't a bad guy. He did unthinkable things. He killed his friends, he killed little children. He helped with the formation of a dictatorship.

3. He not only physically abused her.... He did so with the force...

All the more reason she's an idiot for "losing the will to live" over him after she just gave birth to two healthy children.

God I hate those movies. Idiotic garbage.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

BTW, isn't it a little annoying that he can take off the helmet whenever he wants?

It's annoying that someone is able to take off a helmet? Helmets must be permanently stuck to heads Tom Hanks style in order to not be annoying? What is this gibberish?

[Mighty Max]

R.i.P. Debbie

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Why is it ridiculous to prefer a feminine woman look better? What is wrong with a gown, or a dress?

It's not ridiculous to prefer that look better, but giving it as a reason for why Star Wars is better than Empire is a ridiculous reason in my opinion. I also don't understand why you think she looks more feminine in Star Wars, not that it matters.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

You really think she looks better in Return where she basically looks like a skeleton with a drug problem which she has admitted? I wasn't just commenting on the princess' clothes.

No, I never said she looked better or worse in any of the films. Why are you implying I think she looks better in Return of the Jedi when I already stated that she looks the same to me in all the movies?

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

I prefer a princess that looks like more feminine and the point about her character qualities are just that.

And I think that's a very ridiculous reason to think Star Wars is better.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

So you state "majority" of my reasons are "ridiculous". I notice you latched onto a couple of things you disagree with while disregarding the rest. My Leia reasons with looks were tongue in cheek (though reasons nonetheless). The movie can also be based upon a character that is more in line. That can also equate to looks. You apparently don't think this is possible. Ok, each to his own. But looks are a very important part of character study and that goes pretty far when you think of how a character is portrayed in a sequel where consistency is very important.

Do you put my reasoning about better original story and better music in that category? How about commenting on anything else instead of taking it to a personal level.

If I think some of your reasons for liking Star Wars more than Empire are ridiculous, that is not personal. I don't even know you.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Lets break it down.

Empire original themes vs Star Wars original theme NOT EVEN CLOSE

I don't think it's ridiculous that you think the Star Wars score is better than Empire, but to say it's so much better than it's not even close sounds ridiculous and extremist to me. They are both very good.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Luke vs Darth, Darth vs Obi...uh are you kidding?

You're saying that Darth vs Obi is awesome and Luke vs Darth is lame. I don't understand this at all. Both are very cool.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Empire is sanitized plain and simple. It is just like Princess Leia wearing pants, it is so PC and overdone with sequel syndrome, that YUP it only stands as a second place...which isn't a terrible place to be.

It makes more sense to me that she's wearing pants than running around in a gown. You might think that looks less attractive, but why would that be a priority when they're fighting for their lives?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

To anyone (and there have been MANY) who says it's not possible to "lose the will to live" a la Padme, I give you Debbie Reynolds.

However, it also proves that it's entirely messed up for a woman to "lose the will to live" right after she gives birth to twins but that's an entirely different argument.

Padme was only 20-something years old which is quite a bit different than an 84-year-old mother losing her daughter.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

God I hate those movies.

Haters gonna hate.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

R.i.P. Debbie

Talk about grim timing. Well at least mother and daughter have been quickly reunited! RIP Carrie and Debbie.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Padme was only 20-something years old which is quite a bit different than an 84-year-old mother losing her daughter.

That wasn't the argument. It was always that it wasn't possible.

One is a question of scientific plausibility and the other is artistic stupidity.

[ElvisForever]

whysoblue,

You are trolling and you will be ignored from now on. Please do me a favor and do the same, I have nothing left to ever say to you. Oh and why are you now calling me genesim for a third time after I explained it to you, because you are TROLLING. You really should learn how to read a post instead of just blindly attacking and being mean spirited just for the sake of it. Again, one only has to look at your responses to posters to see the facts. Now throw another fit, but at least be done with it. You got last word ever to me.

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

It's not ridiculous to prefer that look better, but giving it as a reason for why Star Wars is better than Empire is a ridiculous reason in my opinion. I also don't understand why you think she looks more feminine in Star Wars, not that it matters.

Why is it ridiculous to give my opinions of why I think the film is better?

Carrie Fisher looked better because she wasn't overly skinny and didn't have drug problems like she openly admitted in the other movies.

More feminine comes from the standpoint of coming from a time when a woman had more curves and men found that pleasing. I can see how that can be lost on someone that prefers the look of Rey. Not saying you do, but many don't get this concept because of how they were raised during their tween years.

No, I never said she looked better or worse in any of the films. Why are you implying I think she looks better in Return of the Jedi when I already stated that she looks the same to me in all the movies?

I responded inaccurately to this and I see your point. You saying she looked the same to me is blind to the severe weight loss she had in the last films due to her admitted drug issues. She most certainly did not look the same.

And I think that's a very ridiculous reason to think Star Wars is better.

Ok whatever you say. And I don't. I think you are blind to disregard the looks of an actor and the effect it can have on the perception of the overall artistic image. Of course I am not really saying that because it takes it to a personal level. Saying someone is wrong, is one thing. Making fun of someone's view by making disparaging remarks is another.

If I think some of your reasons for liking Star Wars more than Empire are ridiculous, that is not personal. I don't even know you.

The personal part is your assumptions that my further reasons were all going to be ridiculous because they don't agree with your view. It would be like me saying that all the posts you make are pointless. It is a crappy thing to say and it is all based on you as a poster. Maybe you have made pointless posts, maybe you won't in the future. Why would I assume such a thing? I take each post as it comes and other than some trolling behavior, I am not going to make such a swift judgment on you as a person.

But getting back, lets start with the music. Do you or do you not agree that Star Wars has far more original music and more iconic music than Empire has? Is this "ridiculous"?

I don't think it's ridiculous that you think the Star Wars score is better than Empire, but to say it's so much better than it's not even close sounds ridiculous and extremist to me. They are both very good.

Ok, your opinion. But going to every iconic score, it is the Star Wars main overture that stands the test of time above all. And that means not even close to me.

You're saying that Darth vs Obi is awesome and Luke vs Darth is lame. I don't understand this at all. Both are very cool.

Where did I say that Luke vs Darth is lame? I may have said it is lame vs Darth Vs Obi. That is a comparison, but not the same as saying it is straight up lame fight. It is like me saying Empire is inferior to Star Wars. That doesn't equate to inferior film overall. Got it?

As for the fight, I think the Luke vs Darth is long and drawn out and actually laughable in parts. Vader is a beast, but the parts with the obvious fake material being thrown at Luke and the awful acting of Mark Hamil just puts it in a lower place compared to the iconic meeting of Obi Wan and Darth. You think both are just "cool", ok, but I actually compare, and in my world, yes there can be a winner and a loser. Doesn't mean Empire is a bad film, just inferior to Star Wars in my book.

It makes more sense to me that she's wearing pants than running around in a gown. You might think that looks less attractive, but why would that be a priority when they're fighting for their lives?

Because I believe the "Princess" would not be fighting for her life in the trenches in the same way. Sure things change, but the story changed in a thousand different ways which I could go on explaining.

Anyway, I have stated my side and your assumption is that anything I say in defense is just "ridiculous", so we can just agree to disagree. To put it bluntly in your own words, how I feel about the reasons to back up my claim are worthy of mockery. I don't work like that, and if you give a true effort on a response there is no way I am going to disparage you like that.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Obi-Wan was older, had already been fighting swarms of droids and those fantastic beasts in the arena before he went down. Yeah he probably should've hung around a little longer but I'll cut him some slack. I wouldn't consider Kylo weak or a wimp for fighting through that blaster shot, but I do think he should've been able to handle Finn more easily (and maybe Rey, but she's apparently the walking embodiment of The Force...).

Not to mention he was starved, tortured, and held hostage BEFORE fighting the swarms of droids and the arena.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That wasn't the argument. It was always that it wasn't possible.

No, most of the objections had to do with losing the will to live being stupid, not with it being impossible.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by octagon

No, most of the objections had to do with losing the will to live being stupid, not with it being impossible.

Ahhh. Well then, on that, we agree.

[A Sith Lord?]

What's funny to me is, there's all this blabbering about CGI in Star Wars that Lucas ruined.

Force Awakens has tons of noticeable CGI, it's just the industry standards and tech have improved since Revenge of the Sith and definitely since Attack of the Clones. 10 years doesn't sound like much, but digital imagery, high end digital cameras getting closer to film, etc are all here or on the horizon.

Starkiller Base had some pretty meh CGI. Inside the actual First Order headquarters didn't look that much better than being inside the Trade Federation buildings or what A New Hope looked like. You can tell there was a few feet of practical then everything else CGI. The Great Catwalk where Ren kills Solo was CGI everywhere.

I truly believe if Lucas had made a film today, his movie would have looked more beautiful than Force Awakens like Rogue One. When I watched Rogue One (several times), I couldn't help but think this is what George Lucas' imagination with today's CGI technology would look like.

Padme's funeral on Naboo looked very beautiful considering it was all pretty much CGI minus the few people standing around.

People just love to take a dump on the prequels because it's Lucas. Force Awakens looked great in comparison to the prequels because it was fresh and new and for many it wiped that taste out of their mouth.

But when I experienced Rogue One, it beat Force Awakens in terms of scenery, planets, and visuals in every department.

Lucas was and is a pioneer in filmmaking. If he and ILM don't continue to push the envelope with digital effects and CGI, we wouldn't be where we are now and get beautiful movies like Fury Road, Rogue One, etc.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Because I believe the "Princess" would not be fighting for her life in the trenches in the same way.

She had a gun in her hand when we met her. From the very beginning Leia wasn't a traditional 'some day my prince will come' damsel in distress kinda princess.

Which is one of the reasons she was beloved by millions.

Hundreds of millions. Hell, billions, maybe.

[A Sith Lord?]

I think it's silly to criticize Padme for losing the will to live. Her would-be husband and father of her children turned into a monster. She didn't wanna believe Obi-Wan, and its' when Anakin doesn't deny any of his allegations that she realizes it's all true.

Her heartbreak legitimately killed her, and whatever life she had left in her body was used to push out the kids.