Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Cobra Kai]

Originally Posted by Charger Hellcat

Yes, they did.



The site won't accept the YouTube timestamp so start at 5:10, right as Howie Long states the exact point you just tried to argue against.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4D6...utu.be&t=5m10s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw1g...ature=youtu.be

Even long before there was the internet all this was knowledge that any true Star Wars fan knew.

With the internet it's even easier to find.

Beat part of that Howie Long video.... Lucas loves his Vader Cinemacast as much as I do mine.

Yeah I've seen all of that. That storyboard is not even from the original production but was done years later during pre-production for Jedi. GL even admits in the Making Magic CD-ROM that they didnt have a jabba design before production and there are no original concept art prior to 1977, except for John Mollo's costume sketches which show him as a human. The shooting script also only describes him as a "slavering hulk" (the script was altered a few years later when it was released to the public to include the part about Jabba being a slug).

Again, the way it was shot, they did not have the technology back then to do stop motion over the actor. They did not shoot any blank plates as they would have had to do, and they definitely would not have had Han touch the actor several times, talk right up next to him, walk around him, etc. That is not at all how those special effects shots were done back then, and this is partly why it took the special edition team a full year to do this even with cgi.

Yeah I'm sure they could have originally envisioned doing the scene with stop motion before production or maybe they planned on doing reshoots for it. (GL asked Fox for $80,000 extra to reshoot cantina/alien scenes but was denied). But there is zero evidence that they were still planning this when they shot the scene. They may have just realized it was not possible with their budget long before shooting and abandoned the idea.

[LeeFanatic007]

The human Jabba actor was Declan Mulholland. I just thought I'd put his name out there since everyone is talking about him.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by LeeFanatic007

Supposedly the tail step happened because they could not get Han around the back of Jabba's CG model at the time without Han popping up when he went over the tail, so they came up with the tail step, which I'm sure they though was kind of funny.

With today's tech I'm sure they could really just redo this scene if they want to keep it in so badly. Jabba looks terrible in every version they've done, the 1997 version looks like a video game cutscene and the 2010 version makes Jabba much too dark. They really don't even need the scene, but a lot of people who have grown up on the special editions probably expect to see it when they watch the movie.

Actually, it's a pretty terrible scene in any form and I think Lucas made the right decision to cut it from the original theatrical release. The scene got dusted off for the special edition because I guess it became irresistible to try and see if they could pull off a CGI Jabba The Hut and also to tie the original film to Return of the Jedi. (With Boba Fett thrown in for good measure.) Should have been left in the deleted scene vault.

[shinobipopcorn]

The dialogue being nearly the same as Greedo's scene doesn't help.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

The dialogue being nearly the same as Greedo's scene doesn't help.

That scene was added as an alternative when they were unable to add the Jabba scene, that's why the dialogue is similar. They couldn't use the scene they originally shot with that dialogue and they needed to have it in the film somehow.

If they were able to add the Jabba scene, there would be no Greedo scene and there would be no debate about who shot first.

[Ben Reilly]

Don't forget...
Han even says:
"Jabba, you're a wonderful Human Being."

Jabba was meant to be Human.

[frogmort]

Originally Posted by Ben Reilly

Don't forget...
Han even says:
"Jabba, you're a wonderful Human Being."

Jabba was meant to be Human.

[Machine_Gun_Willy]

Originally Posted by LeeFanatic007

Jabba was always supposed to be an alien, wether or not he was originally envisioned as a slug is another matter though. The Marvel comics adaptation has the Jabba scene but he is a humanoid, green alien. But if they had planned on a humanoid alien Jabba why not just create a character mask and do that?

He was almost certainly not envisioned as a giant slug. The story with that comic was that no concept art was available from Lucasfilm so they went ahead and picked one of the aliens visible in the Cantina scene to use as a model. Keep in mind, Lucasfilm had final approval over everthing that went into the comic.

As to why the fat guy wasn't in the comic or the humanoid alien in the movie, who knows. The Jabba scenes were shot first, but the comic was published shortly before the movie was out, so maybe by that time Lucas knew the Jabba scene was getting cut anyway so he wasn't as concerned about it. I have my doubts that Lucas was thinking "big picture" at this stage. By the time he knew he would get to make more Star Wars films, he probably wanted something a lot more memorable than that goofy walrus alien.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

If they were able to add the Jabba scene, there would be no Greedo scene and there would be no debate about who shot first.

Then why are both scenes in both the novelization (which came out in late 1976) and the comic? The line in every version "Why did you have to fry poor Greedo like that?" doesn't even make sense without them both.


Fun fact: I got the novel for a Christmas 1976 gift.

[drush9999]

The Walrus-faced Jabba from the Marvel comics was funny, in later letters pages they claimed Jabba the Hut and Jabba the Hutt were different characters because of the spelling

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Petey Parker

One of the stories from the EU book Tales From Jabba's Palace has the human Jabba in it. It was explained that he was a stand in for Jabba who traveled to conduct business for him. I can't for the life of me remember his real name though.

I read that book years ago, and don't remember if it was in that one or another, but Jabba's human rep was called "Heater". I was at a friend's house in the late 90's and he introduced his roommate as "Heater". And I said oh, you like obscure Star Wars references? And he said he didn't even like Star Wars. I didn't go any further.

If you were asking about the human actor's name, it's Declan Mulholland, as was mentioned above.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

I was at a friend's house in the late 90's and he introduced his roommate as "Heater". And I said oh, you like obscure Star Wars references? And he said he didn't even like Star Wars. I didn't go any further.

Ha!

[Michael24]

Heater was actually created as a Jabba stand-in for the early-80s radio adaptation of Star Wars.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heater

If you've never heard of them, those radio dramas are really good. Especially the ones for the original movie and ESB.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by atbodamer

I finally upgraded my DVDs to this set, purchasing on Amazon from a 3rd party retailer. Received a bootleg BD-R set. I'm going through the returns process now. Dealer seems to be remedying with a refund. I had heard about this on eBay, was surprised to find on Amazon.

I realize that Amazon still gets their commission on the sale, but I'm amazed that they permit all these third party sellers on there. It screws up the database because there are tons of redundant entries and the poor quality of many of the products ruins Amazon's reputation. I especially don't understand it when Amazon has inventory of the same item. And since Amazon usually doesn't display standard UPCs and ISBNs, when there have been many editions of a title, it's hard to figure out which one you're actually ordering. Amazon rules now and they've put a lot of other companies out of business, but I do wonder about the future.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

That scene was added as an alternative when they were unable to add the Jabba scene, that's why the dialogue is similar. They couldn't use the scene they originally shot with that dialogue and they needed to have it in the film somehow.

If they were able to add the Jabba scene, there would be no Greedo scene and there would be no debate about who shot first.

But why does Jabba talk about Han "frying poor Greedo"? AFAIK the Greedo scene was always there as Han's badass introduction, but they just added the lines from the cut scene with Jabba after that bit got junked. I think it's the exact same dialogue take, even.

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But why does Jabba talk about Han "frying poor Greedo"? AFAIK the Greedo scene was always there as Han's badass introduction, but they just added the lines from the cut scene with Jabba after that bit got junked. I think it's the exact same dialogue take, even.

I believe The Making of Star Wars book addresses this. At one point, pick ups were done for the Cantina Bar sequence, which included a few tidbits being added to the Greedo scene, including the "Even I get boarded sometimes" line.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

I believe The Making of Star Wars book addresses this. At one point, pick ups were done for the Cantina Bar sequence, which included a few tidbits being added to the Greedo scene, including the "Even I get boarded sometimes" line.

Yes, they did some pickups Stateside to jazz up the bar patrons (Lucas wasn't happy with how they looked during the Elstree shoot) and to redo Greedo's side of the scene, but Ford had already done his side during principal photography. And yeah, it's "Even I get boarded sometimes, d'you think I had a choice?" which is the actual take lifted directly from the Jabba scene, and they reshaped Greedo's responses accordingly during the reshoots. But to say that the Greedo scene was added only after they junked the Jabba bit is completely incorrect.

[motorheadache95]

Part of what bugs me about many of the alterations is the lack of thoroughness and kind of a half-hearted aspect to so many of them.

Like if he was going to restore the Jabba scene, he should have re-edited the Greedo scene back to what it was intended before they had to cut it, so there wouldn't be the same exact lines and exposition repeated. As is it feels like a tacked on deleted scene that would only fly with studio execs who were trying to market an "extended cut" without input from a director who pays attention to the importance of editing and pacing in a film.

But you know, it is what is, which is why lightsaber effects were tweaked in some shots but not others, rocks were added to hide Artoo more in some shots but not others, windows were added to Cloud City in some shots but not others, etc.

Honestly, instead of Disney releasing a 4K version of the last versions, I wish they would work with George Lucas in developing better versions that more carefully go through each film and flesh out what what he was trying to do throughout the years of all his modifications. Like a final "Lucas Definitive Edition" of each film that touches up everything and makes the CGI additions look better and more convincing (get rid and replace a lot of that 1997 CGI junk). I'd still prefer the originals but at least it would be some enticement for buying a 4K version that isn't the UOT.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Honestly, instead of Disney releasing a 4K version of the last versions, I wish they would work with George Lucas in developing better versions that more carefully go through each film and flesh out what what he was trying to do throughout the years of all his modifications. Like a final "Lucas Definitive Edition" of each film that touches up everything and makes the CGI additions look better and more convincing (get rid and replace a lot of that 1997 CGI junk). I'd still prefer the originals but at least it would be some enticement for buying a 4K version that isn't the UOT.

Haven't the last twenty-eight years conclusively proven that George Lucas has no business being allowed anywhere near an editing suite, and most likely the movie industry as a whole? Here's a breakdown of everything that he's provided the story for and/or directed since the last generally-acclaimed work he was involved in (i.e. 1989's Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade):

Radioland Murders (1994) - Bombed with heavily negative reviews.
Star Wars Trilogy Special Editions (1997-2011) - Sloppy CG with ham-fisted and poorly-conceived changes that have split the fanbase beyond repair.
The Phantom Menace (1999) - Almost single-handedly destroyed the franchise with Lil' Ani and Jar-Jar, not to mention the Galactic C-SPAN scenes.
Attack of the Clones (2002) - Proved that The Phantom Menace was no fluke, with Emo Ani and his sand-based complaints vying with Jar-Jar for the title of "worst-written Star Wars character".
Revenge of the Sith (2005) - Slightly less awful than the other two prequels, but ends with Padme dying of a broken heart and Anakin's infamous "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) - By far the absolute worst of the Indiana Jones films, terrible set-pieces and CGI, not to mention Shia LaBeouf's role. The space aliens theme was completely out-of-place, not to mention "nuking the fridge"...
Red Tails (2012) - Bombed with heavily negative reviews.
Strange Magic (2015) - Bombed with heavily negative reviews. Failed so badly that it was only released on DVD.

Given that track record, do you really think giving him one more crack at the OT films (after failing in 1997, 2004, and 2011) is a good idea?

To adapt a quote attributed to King Edward VIII's private secretary, "I can't help thinking that the best thing that could happen to him, and to [Star Wars], would be for him to break his neck."

[shinobipopcorn]

I'm not sure if further changes to the OT would please the fanbase short of undoing the "cardinal sins" of Greedo shooting first, insta-rocks, NOOOOOOO, and Hayden the ghost. I think people would accept the other changes if those were eliminated. Personally I like the added shots of the Battle of Yavin and the Emperor's hologram in ESB.