Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

I'm not sure if further changes to the OT would please the fanbase short of undoing the "cardinal sins" of Greedo shooting first, insta-rocks, NOOOOOOO, and Hayden the ghost. I think people would accept the other changes if those were eliminated. Personally I like the added shots of the Battle of Yavin and the Emperor's hologram in ESB.

I don't see where wanting the theatrical cuts and accepting changes coincides. I know I'm not gonna be worn down to being happy over a shit sandwich.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by svenge

Given that track record, do you really think giving him one more crack at the OT films (after failing in 1997, 2004, and 2011) is a good idea?

To adapt a quote attributed to King Edward VIII's private secretary, "I can't help thinking that the best thing that could happen to him, and to [Star Wars], would be for him to break his neck."

I was thinking more like a team at Lucasfilm, maybe even some of the old players who were involved in the original film's production, doing a new pass-through, with Lucas serving more of a "consultant" kind of role. Like take the gist of what he was going for in the revised editions, but do it better-- better effects, better editing, and finishing all the partially done alterations with much more attention to detail. Also fixing everything else people mention, like the rest of the garbage mattes and the still-remaining inconsistent lightsaber effects in the original.

Basically, if they're doing 4K versions but it's not the UOT, at least make it a real project and something that isn't as inconsistent and quite frankly half-assed as the stuff done for the last DVD and Blu-Ray versions. But of course, over anything else and any other possibilities, I'd rather they just do what should have been done over 10 years ago and just restore the actual films as they were in 1977, 1980, and 1983 and just let that be the end of it.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) - By far the absolute worst of the Indiana Jones films, terrible set-pieces and CGI, not to mention Shia LaBeouf's role. The space aliens theme was completely out-of-place, not to mention "nuking the fridge"

Is the nuked fridge really any more unbelievable than surviving a fall from a plane on a raft?

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

The Phantom Menace (1999) - Almost single-handedly destroyed the franchise with Lil' Ani and Jar-Jar, not to mention the Galactic C-SPAN scenes.

Please give that little kid a break, for God's sake!!

[Vlad Draculi]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Is the nuked fridge really any more unbelievable than surviving a fall from a plane on a raft?

Exactly.

Also, I feel the alien plot works because the movie takes place in the 50s and aliens were the big thing at the time (just like how the occult and Nazis were the things of the 30s).

Don't get me wrong, Crystal Skull is not a great movie by any means, but some of the things people complain about are silly, especially when Temple of Doom did the same thing. I guess the difference is Temple of Doom was a memorable kind of bad while Crystal Skull was just a bad kind of bad.

Anyway, not sure why I am talking Indiana in a Star Wars discussion because I really just came in here to see if there was any news about the untouched versions that are rumored to be happening.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

Attack of the Clones (2002) - Proved that The Phantom Menace was no fluke, with Emo Ani and his sand-based complaints vying with Jar-Jar for the title of "worst-written Star Wars character".

1. Please don't call Anakin "emo." You can't turn to the dark side without having some kind of emotional trauma.

2. The sand line is him reflecting back on his tough times living on a desert planet.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Please give that little kid a break, for God's sake!!

Seeing that child actors should not be personally criticized and/or held responsible for their poor performances (other than simply not being hired for future projects), I have nothing against Jake Lloyd himself.

The blame in this instance should be placed solely at the feet of George Lucas (as writer, director, and executive producer) along with casting director Robin Gurland.

Originally Posted by Hardback247

1. Please don't call Anakin "emo." You can't turn to the dark side without having some kind of emotional trauma.

2. The sand line is him reflecting back on his tough times living on a desert planet.

1) If teenaged Anakin was any more emo, he there would've been a scene of him shopping at Hot Topic before dropping by to Naboo. All he did the entire film was whine and complain, along with be a creeper towards Padme.

2) Who cares what the motivations behind the sand line were? It was written exceedingly poorly, so much so that mere mention of "I don't like sand" is one of the most common reference points for the PT's myriad failures.

[Rodney-2187]

It's the 40th anniversary of Star Wars. I don't know what they have in mind but it has to be something. I can't believe their entire plan for acknowledging the 40th anniversary was just that panel at Celebration. I'm just as surprised as anyone that some sort of announcement wasn't made at that time but I'm sure they must have more in store. I highly doubt it is the unaltered versions though.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

Seeing that child actors should not be personally criticized and/or held responsible for their poor performances (other than simply not being hired for future projects), I have nothing against Jake Lloyd himself.

The blame in this instance should be placed solely at the feet of George Lucas (as writer, director, and executive producer) and casting director Robin Gurland.

The ultimate reason why Anakin was written to be nine years old in The Phantom Menace was to make the character's separation from his mother more poignant.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The ultimate reason why Anakin was written to be nine years old in The Phantom Menace was to make the character's separation from his mother more poignant.

That concept in itself is not bad, but the execution (in terms of writing, casting, and direction) was abysmal.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

If teenaged Anakin was any more emo, he there would've been a scene of him shopping at Hot Topic before dropping by to Naboo. All he did the entire film was whine and complain, along with be a creeper towards Padme.

Kevin Smith once touched on the subject of Anakin's whininess. He said this: "He's kind of a spoiled teenager. Some people are like, 'oh, he's too whiny' and 'why would the galaxy's greatest villain be a whiny teenager?' That's who the galaxy's greatest villain would be. He would start as a whiny teenager. He'd start as an emo kid with some issues."

Just imagine the whiniest, most self-pitying, dumbest emo kid you know. Now imagine that he gets Jedi powers and can just kill anybody he wants with little effort and no consequences. Yeah, he'd start with a Columbine and before you know it, he's walking around in a big, black, shiny costume and blowing up planets.

How exactly does being "whiny" instantly make someone a bad character, anyway?

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

This hate has gone on for 18 years now. Get over it.

So a cold, analytical assessment of a film's flaws is "hate" now? Good to see that your complete lack of discernment regarding quality extends beyond that to your misuse of English vocabulary as well.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by svenge

So a cold, analytical assessment of a film's flaws is "hate" now? Good to see that your complete lack of discernment regarding quality extends beyond that and extends to your misuse of English vocabulary as well.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

I'm not sure if further changes to the OT would please the fanbase short of undoing the "cardinal sins" of Greedo shooting first, insta-rocks, NOOOOOOO, and Hayden the ghost. I think people would accept the other changes if those were eliminated. Personally I like the added shots of the Battle of Yavin and the Emperor's hologram in ESB.

Agreed, although I'm fine with Christiansen being the ghost at the end of ROTJ. The only real problem changes for me in the special editions are Han shooting first and the Jedi rocks song change in ROTJ. Otherwise, the yavin battle and numerous other scenes are welcome changes.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

Is the nuked fridge really any more unbelievable than surviving a fall from a plane on a raft?

Exactly! But the Lucas Bash Brigade won't want that to deter the cherry picking.

Thankfully I like to focus on the positives, and that for me is Lucas has given so much more than he's taken away.

[MPeriolat]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Agreed, although I'm fine with Christiansen being the ghost at the end of ROTJ. The only real problem changes for me in the special editions are Han shooting first and the Jedi rocks song change in ROTJ. Otherwise, the yavin battle and numerous other scenes are welcome changes.

If we are talking about the 1997 Special Editions, I agree. Greedo shooting first is weird and the CGI Jabba doesn't hold up for ANH and Jedi Rocks and replacing Yub Nub can die in a fire, but I'm actually pretty OK with the rest. I can even tolerate and actually like Ghost Hayden in Jedi for the DVD release. It's when we get to the blu-rays my objections explode. Them adding the NOOOOO! screams to Jedi had me really questioning why George could not leave well enough alone.

It's why, unrealistic as it sounds, branching versions for all six of the Lucas era movies should be made available so we can have all we want. For my money, perfect versions are as follows:

ANH - I'm a bit of a purist. I'd probably watch the 77 cut and be fine.
ESB - Same. 80 cut is just fine.
ROTJ - Ghost Hayden I'd keep from the SE, rest is fine.
TPM - Add in the cut stuff from the pod race and Qui-Gon and Anakin being attacked by the Maul drone and we're good here.
AOTC - I actually really liked the scenes with Padme and Anakin visiting her family and would love to see a cut with those scenes added in.
ROTS - Bring back the creation of the rebellion scenes. Gives Padme and Bail Organa larger roles, Mon Mothma by Bujold is already canonized by R1 and Rebels and it makes Anakin look less paranoid and gives him more motivation to be swayed to fall.

YMMV. As you can see, I'm pretty OK with the classic trilogy, it's the prequels that need more work, a bit more meat.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

The ultimate reason why Anakin was written to be nine years old in The Phantom Menace was to make the character's separation from his mother more poignant.

Shame it didn't work.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Shame it didn't work.

But it's a homage!

Wait, wrong film.

[MPeriolat]

I've had fewer problems with Hayden's performance than Lloyd's. I mean, think about it - take a barely ten year old kid away from his mother, tell him he's not just gifted, but special. Then raise him among the equivalent of an order of monks for, oh, about ten years. Then drop him back into a relationship with a girl who he had a thing for when he was a kid, but she has breasts now.

Suddenly, his stilted, awkward, whiney performance doesn't seem strange for AOTC now, does it? Also, keep in mind, Lucas was never a performance motivated director, so we take what we can get.

I can excuse AOTC and I like ROTS. Phantom Menace... well, got Liam, Pernellia August, Maul, a good sword fight at the end... and trade negotiations. George, I dunno who you think you are kidding, but even if this series is intended for twelve year old, as stated this week, no 12 year old alive is gonna watch CSPAN in Space.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MPeriolat

I've had fewer problems with Hayden's performance than Lloyd's. I mean, think about it - take a barely ten year old kid away from his mother, tell him he's not just gifted, but special. Then raise him among the equivalent of an order of monks for, oh, about ten years. Then drop him back into a relationship with a girl who he had a thing for when he was a kid, but she has breasts now.

Suddenly, his stilted, awkward, whiney performance doesn't seem strange for AOTC now, does it? Also, keep in mind, Lucas was never a performance motivated director, so we take what we can get.

I can excuse AOTC and I like ROTS. Phantom Menace... well, got Liam, Pernellia August, Maul, a good sword fight at the end... and trade negotiations. George, I dunno who you think you are kidding, but even if this series is intended for twelve year old, as stated this week, no 12 year old alive is gonna watch CSPAN in Space.

Never said it was strange, it's just poorly executed. Having Anakin be so young in Phantom Menace just for the mother separation angle is fine in concept, but the next time we see Anakin so much time has passed that it simply doesn't feel like the same person. Yeah, kids kinda do that when they sprout into adulthood BUT that doesn't make the transition any less jarring between movies, and Anakin himself is such a whiny little shit with a nice line in creepy staring that's it's almost impossible to empathise with him, at least it is for me. If we'd had the same actor throughout all three films then we maybe could've had a more sympathetic performance from Hayden as an older Anakin in Ep 1 which would've lent much more empathy to the 'whiny little shit' stage of adolescence seen in Ep 2.

Yes, Luke was equally whiny but the key is that he became the hero of the piece, NOT the villain, so Lucas should've inverted the concept and made Anakin the likeable rogue - the Han, if you will - of the prequels which would've made his fall so much more bittersweet rather than a big bowl of meh. And I say that as someone who likes Sith quite a bit and even admires Phantom Menace in a standalone 'Star Wars story' kinda way, it's mainly Clones which lets the PT down so very, very badly.