Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Spidey Blu]

Honestly the only truly awful things about the SEs are the NOOO at the end of Jedi, the Blu-ray edit of Greedo shooting first, and the poo monsters blocking the scene on Tatooine. Everything else is fine or is a improvement.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[crissrudd4554]

You forgot Jedi Rocks.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

The 1993 LD mix for ANH was a remix although it was based largely on the original 1977 stereo mix. However some elements from the original mono mix were included such as extra rumble before the Stormtroopers evade the Tantive IV, bleeps from R2 at the start of the scene when Luke, Ben, and the droids find the slaughtered Jawas, and Chewbacca banging his hands on the trash compactor door. New sounds such as glass breaking in the detention cell scene were also added.

If it was only the mainly the stereo mix why were there only sounds exclusive to the 6 channel and mono before there 1997 mixes even existed?

Why would they only add them to the LD mixes? That makes no sense.

The mono came AFTER the 70mm 6 channel not before.

The 35mm mix was the first mix, I think a lot of people are confused by this fact.

[Spidey Blu]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

You forgot Jedi Rocks.

That sucks but I can tolerate it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[crissrudd4554]

@EF Ben Burtt confirmed that the stereo and mono mixes for the original 1977 release differed because at the time they were under the impression that the mono mix would become the default mix down the line. You have to keep in mind in the late 1970s many major studio films and especially television programming was still being presented monaural so this tactic was understandable. This is why the original mono mix had many more sound effects and slightly different dialogue but for whatever reason when they got around to releasing Star Wars on video they reverted to the stereo mix which they continued to change with each release. This includes adding 3PO's tractor beam line from the mono mix (yes that line was in the original mono, not stereo) in 1985 before removing it again in 1993 before restoring it for the SE as well as the changes I had noted before with the 1993 mix. For clarification please see this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXp...ature=youtu.be

[Gold Ranger]

Yeah, I sorely miss the old Mono Track.
I'm just trying to remember where I heard it before though. I know I did.

[crissrudd4554]

Funny enough according to this link Lucas, at the time at least, considered the mono 'definitive'.

http://savestarwars.com/theatricalaudioresources.html

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

@EF Ben Burtt confirmed that the stereo and mono mixes for the original 1977 release differed because at the time they were under the impression that the mono mix would become the default mix down the line. You have to keep in mind in the late 1970s many major studio films and especially television programming was still being presented monaural so this tactic was understandable. This is why the original mono mix had many more sound effects and slightly different dialogue but for whatever reason when they got around to releasing Star Wars on video they reverted to the stereo mix which they continued to change with each release. This includes adding 3PO's tractor beam line from the mono mix (yes that line was in the original mono, not stereo) in 1985 before removing it again in 1993 before restoring it for the SE as well as the changes I had noted before with the 1993 mix. For clarification please see this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXp...ature=youtu.be

The mono mix was different and had added sound effects because it was the last one worked on. Lucas liked it the best because that is the one he supposedly perfected up to that point.

From your link


"Which brings us to the 70mm six-track. This was thought impossible to salvage, but recently Hairy_Hen was able to recreate it. He realized that the 1993 stereo mix was created from the original 1977 stems that were used to make the initial stereo and six-track mixes, which was good news since this mix has the greatest dynamic range and is therefore most similar to the range of the six-track release. Working from the Laserdisc PCM track, he was able to pull apart the Lt-Rt splits to isolate the surround channel. He also had to carefully edit out the added sound effects to this 1993 release, filling it in with the theatrical stereo. Belbucus has created a detailed list of the added sounds for the '93 mix. To create the baby-boom low frequency effects, Hairy_hen isolated some of the low-frequency effects from the 2004 5.1 mix. Combining all of these sources, he was able to create an AC3 file that recreated the 70mm six-track mix. See the OT.com thread here."

YUP, what I have been saying all along for how many pages now?

Take that soundtrack and put it on the recent CAPTURE and you have a pretty much perfect version of the film. Add to that, the fact that it syncs up perfectly without any tweaking...hell it is practically plug and play.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Why would they only add them to the LD mixes? That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

From your link


"Which brings us to the 70mm six-track. This was thought impossible to salvage, but recently Hairy_Hen was able to recreate it. He realized that the 1993 stereo mix was created from the original 1977 stems that were used to make the initial stereo and six-track mixes, which was good news since this mix has the greatest dynamic range and is therefore most similar to the range of the six-track release. Working from the Laserdisc PCM track, he was able to pull apart the Lt-Rt splits to isolate the surround channel. He also had to carefully edit out the added sound effects to this 1993 release, filling it in with the theatrical stereo. Belbucus has created a detailed list of the added sounds for the '93 mix. To create the baby-boom low frequency effects, Hairy_hen isolated some of the low-frequency effects from the 2004 5.1 mix. Combining all of these sources, he was able to create an AC3 file that recreated the 70mm six-track mix. See the OT.com thread here."

From the same link.

'The Star Wars trilogy has had a lot of mixes over the years. In 1985, Ben Burtt supervised a stereo remix for home video, taking into account the acoustics of television audio (as this was the pre-home theatre days it has the least dynamic range of any mix). In 1993, the sound was remixed in stereo again, this time "sweetening" the audio with added effects in Star Wars. In 1997, the films were remixed in 5.1 surround and released on Laserdisc in Dolby Digital (and VHS in stereo). In 2004, the sound was remixed in Dolby Digital yet again for DVD release.'

Also from this link.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/index.htm

'For similar reasons, a decision was made not to create the mono master by means of dubbing the stereo master and "folding" the multiple tracks into one. Instead, a new dedicated mono mix was created from scratch. With each subsequent mix, the filmmakers seized opportunities to revise and enhance selected portions of the soundtrack where they had felt rushed or shortchanged creatively, wished different choices had been made for a given scene, or simply selected a different take of a given line of dialogue. Sound designer Ben Burtt recalls: "Because we were always trying to make the film better and better and fix things that were not right, there was some 'sweetening' done; things like different Stormtrooper or C-3PO lines, additional sound effects, or some different ADR."

At the time, not knowing what the future would hold in terms of widespread adoption of multi-channel sound not only in movie theatres but in homes as well, some members of the production felt the mono mix represented the definitive soundtrack of the movie (not in terms of a sonic experience but, rather, in terms of audio content), and felt that the stereo version was a novelty that select audiences would be treated to only during a brief theatrical run. "George put a lot of effort in that mono mix," Burtt remembers, "and he even said several times, 'Well, this is the real mix. This is the definitive mix of the film.' He paid more attention to it because he felt it was more important archivally."'

[ElvisForever]

Criss,

You are not showing me anything I don't know.

What you misinderstand is that the CAV Laserdisc were folded to stereo matrix from the 70mm sound elements.

There was obviously remixing and additions. I showed you the quote, it is your choice if you read it or not.

Laserdisc were only in stereo matrixed until ac-3 encoding on the rf channel took hold.

Your idea of the LD's were based on the 35mm stereo sound is just wrong.

As for the mono, I am not sure why you quoted that?

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Criss,

You are not showing me anything I don't know.

What you misinderstand is that the CAV Laserdisc were folded to stereo matrix from the 70mm sound elements.

There was obviously remixing and additions. I showed you the quote, it is your choice if you read it or not.

Uhhh this all stemmed for when I explained that the 1993 mix was actually a remix of the 1977 stereo mix with added effects and you responded with.

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

If it was only the mainly the stereo mix why were there only sounds exclusive to the 6 channel and mono before there 1997 mixes even existed?

Why would they only add them to the LD mixes? That makes no sense.

The mono came AFTER the 70mm 6 channel not before.

The 35mm mix was the first mix, I think a lot of people are confused by this fact.

Every post I made since was to clarify my initial post. It is your choice to accept if I did that or not.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Criss,

You are not showing me anything I don't know.

What you misinderstand is that the CAV Laserdisc were folded to stereo matrix from the 70mm sound elements.

There was obviously remixing and additions. I showed you the quote, it is your choice if you read it or not.

Laserdisc were only in stereo matrixed until ac-3 encoding on the rf channel took hold.

Your idea of the LD's were based on the 35mm stereo sound is just wrong.

As for the mono, I am not sure why you quoted that?

I see you edited this afterwards. I never said it was the 35mm. The original release had two stereo mixes for the 70mm and 35mm releases respectfully.

As far as quoting stuff about the mono, you asked why there were differences between the six channel and the mono before the SE mix was made. I was elaborating on that.

You asked a question my friend and I merely answered it and found evidence to support it. Don't know what to tell you.

[ElvisForever]

The 1993 is NOT a remix of the stereo mix, it is a fold down/remix of the 70mm 6 track.

It even says it plainly in your link.

Whether you agree with me or not, at least get my view correct. It has not changed.

[crissrudd4554]

New sound effects were added to the 1993 mix and thus makes it a separate mix from the original i.e. a REMIX! Just because only a few sounds were added does not constitute calling the mix the theatrical one. It's no different from saying that the 2004 and 2011 versions of the films are not the same versions. Yes only a handful of changes were made in 2011 but technically it makes them separate from the 2004 versions. And also the 1993 LDs presented the original trilogy with THX picture and sound when ROTJ was the only film to have been originally theatrically shown as such.

This is all fact dude.

PS the 70mm is not a stereo mix why??

[crissrudd4554]

Again I said the 1993 mix was a remix of the STEREO mix. I never specified which. The 70mm six track still counts as a stereo mix does it not??

[Ernest Rister]

I'm starting to ask myself why I'm hanging around here...in the interest of using technology to spread joy like my idols and heroes, I give you this.

Din and Tonics a cappella tribute to John Williams | Harvard University Commencement 2017 - YouTube

[PeterTHX]

The THX Star Wars LD is from the stems. It is a remix that took elements from all three mixes (35MM, 70MM, mono).


The Empire & Jedi THX discs are home theater mixes from the magnetic 35MM printmasters.


They went back to the 70MM masters for the 5.1 remix for the Special Editions, and the DVDs were a Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX version of those.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'm starting to ask myself why I'm hanging around here...

Because like a Jerry Springer show, you just can't stop watching this thread!

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I have heard those 5.1 Mixes that hairy_hen recreated of the 70MM 6-Track Stereo Mixes and they are pretty damn amazing!

If the Original Theatrical Unaltered Versions of The Star Wars Trilogy are ever restored and released onto Blu-Ray officially it would be nice if the original 6-Track Stereo Mixes are recreated in 5.1. Lucasfilm must still have all of the original audio elements.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They'd be 4.2 not 5.1 - mono surrounds and baby boom channels.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The bass.

And EF is right ^, Peter loves correcting people whenever they talk about translating a 70mm mix into a home format but you can still have a 5.1 mix that more or less replicates the 4.2 layout, you just encode each rear as mono (perhaps with some decorrelation if you're feeling frisky) and divert the bass into the single .1 LFE channel.

There IS a shit-ton of clipping in the 5.1 Blu-ray mixes for Empire and Jedi though. Star Wars got remixed again for the Blu so it sounds much cleaner, if still a touch uneven here and there, but it's 10x worse on the old DVD. The 5.1 is bad but the 2.0, my God, it's like someone's crumpling tin foil right next to my ears when the Death Star goes up.

Thanks for the information regarding baby boom channels on 6-Track Stereo. I'm still learning on how 6-Track Stereo worked.

You are absolutely right about the clipping that the 6.1 Mixes on the Blu-Rays of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I recently re-watched my Blu-Rays of The Star Wars Trilogy and immediately noticed the significant amount of clipping the mixes for the last two films have.

They should have just made new 6.1 Mixes for The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi since they were already putting time and money into making a new 6.1 mix for Star Wars (1977).

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya

SW:ANH newest 6.1 audio mix is excellent; so damn good.

[Show spoiler]

Alas, ESB and ROTJ have not fared well at all. Extremely disappointing audio mixes.
Come on MicusFilms, redo those mixes. In Atmos no less.

One of the reasons for why I wanted the Blu-Rays of The Star Wars Trilogy was for the improved audio for the first film. The 6.1 Mix that was created for the Blu-Ray of Star Wars (1977) is far superior to the problematic 6.1 Mix that was created for the 2004 DVD.

The 6.1 Mixes for the Blu-Rays of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are certainly not dissapointing but they have too much clipping which can be annoying.