Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Recreated how, from what, why?

If the two surround mixes are recreations it seems that of the choices available, only the mono is definitively theatrical though?

So the 2.0 and 5.1 are "draft" mixes, recreated in 2018, the mono is the original final theatrical audio, and the two other stereo tracks are...something else?

This is from the 4K77 site.

“Is the Audio also from the 35mm print?

No. Unfortunately not. The only (almost) complete print we have is the Spanish LPP, which has Spanish Audio. That track was included with the Silver Screen Edition. So most of the Audio tracks are Laserdisc sourced. Most of these audio tracks can also be found on Harmy's Despecialized Edition. If you have that or the official NTSC 2006 Bonus DVD, you can also MUX in any audio track from those and it should sync perfectly with 4K77.”

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Recreated how, from what, why?

If the two surround mixes are recreations it seems that of the choices available, only the mono is definitively theatrical though?

So the 2.0 and 5.1 are "draft" mixes, recreated in 2018, the mono is the original final theatrical audio, and the two other stereo tracks are...something else?

You've been told what the other two tracks are, repeatedly: home video versions that were done in 1985 and 1993 respectively. They have been included no doubt because of the sentimental attachment that some people have to them (though the less Ben Burtt's involved with remixing the better IMO).

[koberulz]

Who or what is Ben Burtt?

I'm assuming they're different from each other...I think someone said the 1985 version was a mix of the 5.1 and mono tracks? Not sure anyone's said what the 1993 is.

[mulscul]

Here is an article from original trilogy, there's alot to read.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/St...d/15294/page/1

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Who or what is Ben Burtt?

Ben Burtt is a sound designer who’s worked on all the Star Wars films.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Not sure anyone's said what the 1993 is.

Yes we did.

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

The 1985 mix is was created for the Japanese Special Collection Laserdiscs with Ben Burtt's involvement and I think was subsequently used for all the home video releases until the '93 THX remaster. I think it's the first appearance of the tractor beam line outside of the mono mix as well, but it's otherwise mostly the same as the original stereo mix. What the differences between it and that THX mix are, I have no idea. Someone really should make a comprehensive list!

Someone who isn't me, that is.

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

Keep in mind I'm doing most of this by memory and just going by what I've caught across the video releases that I can remember off hand. Yes the '85 mix is more or less the original stereo mix with the tractor beam added. IIRC the '93 mix was strewn from the original 70mm mix. This mix does not have the tractor beam line. Aside from that only a few differences I've noticed with the '93 mix vs the '85 mix. Mostly its aesthetic stuff like additional laser blasts or explosions in certain scenes (the detention block shootout is one). The little sound Chewy makes just before Han says 'Seventeen thousand!' is in this mix but not the '85 mix. Thats really all I can name off hand.

As we have already established the first film had three different mixes in its original 1977 release. Those mixes have been provided or at the very least recreated with the best intentions and materials as possible for 4K77. Likely they did not have proper materials to have the tracks not be recreated so stuff like Laserdiscs had to suffice in reproducing the original tracks. That said it’s not like the tracks are revisionist. The purpose of 4K77, much like Harmy’s projects though 4K77 uses an original release print, was to reproduce the original 1977 in HD as best as possible. What you have is the closest you will get to the 1977 film, video and sound, in HD.

[Hardback247]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Ben Burtt is a sound designer who’s worked on all the Star Wars films.

We was also the guy who first coined the the infamous scream heard in many movies "the Wilhelm Scream."

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

(though the less Ben Burtt's involved with remixing the better IMO).

What do you mean by that anyway?

[steel_breeze]

Originally Posted by Takeshi666

What do you mean by that anyway?

I believe he's referring to Ben Burtt's revisionist tendencies to elevate his own sound effects while diminishing John Williams' excellent score.

[Geoff D]

That is the greatest of bingo's.

[shinobipopcorn]

Quick question and I don't feel like digging. When/where did the "tractor beam" line originate? That is the only thing I miss from the first movie. (I think it helps the scene.)

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Quick question and I don't feel like digging. When/where did the "tractor beam" line originate? That is the only thing I miss from the first movie. (I think it helps the scene.)

It was in the 1977 mono mix and the 1985 remix by Ben Burtt. It was reinstated for the Special Edition and thus on the Blu-ray.

[koberulz]

Originally Posted by mulscul

Here is an article from original trilogy, there's alot to read.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/St...d/15294/page/1

Interesting. That makes it sound like the two surround mixes are the proper theatrical audio and the mono was a later remix targeted for TV.

Be nice if it had timecodes in the comparison section.

The six-track is the default for Harmy's version, so I'm guessing that's the one I've heard before.

[Takeshi666]

Originally Posted by koberulz

and the mono was a later remix targeted for TV.

No!

[koberulz]

While the mono mix could have been created from the Dolby Stereo master by “folding” the tracks into one, instead the team decided to create a new dedicated mono mix from scratch.

At the time, the extended life of a film was played out through television broadcasts. It was thought that long after the film had disappeared from the big screen, this was how it would be remembered, and it seemed logical to refine the mix to this end for archival concerns.

Seems it to me.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Seems it to me.

Most people would've actually heard it in mono during the original theatrical run. 70mm theaters weren't on every street corner and 35mm houses with Dolby Stereo were very few in number, Dolby Stereo itself being a very new thing at the time (though Star Wars wasn't the first to use it).

[koberulz]

But it also says a lot of the mono modifications weren't present until a 1978 re-release?

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

We was also the guy who first coined the the infamous scream heard in many movies "the Wilhelm Scream."

I hate, loathe that damned scream. Takes me out of a movie every damned time.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by koberulz

But it also says a lot of the mono modifications weren't present until a 1978 re-release?

That was referring to 3-PO’s tractor beam line. It still says the mono mix was scrambled together in the weeks leading to the premiere. Again they had to assemble a mono mix for theatres without the use of playing a film in stereo. The ‘TV’ aspect of it was just saying that this film could later find a new audience through television so they figured they’d make the mono as definitive as possible (at the time at least). Many films especially television programs in 1977 were still done in mono so this isn’t surprising. But no the mono wasn’t created specifically for television.

[bobbyh64]

Did most theaters in the 70s show films in stereo? I assumed so and therefore thought most people would’ve seen Star Wars with stereo audio. Is there something about Dolby Stereo that makes it incompatible with normal stereo systems?