Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[koberulz]

I have it, that's how I know what tracks and subs are present. There is not, however, an explanation of what any of them are.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by koberulz

I have it, that's how I know what tracks and subs are present. There is not, however, an explanation of what any of them are.

TRACK 1) 5.1 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1977 70mm six track mix)

TRACK 2) 2.0 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1977 35mm stereo mix)

TRACK 3) 1.0 DTS-HD-MA [English] (1977 35mm mono mix)

TRACK 4) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (1985 Laserdisc mix)

TRACK 5) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (1993 Laserdisc mix)

TRACK 6) 2.0 Dolby Digital [German] (1978 dub reconstruction)

TRACK 7) 2.0 Dolby Digital [French] (1977 dub)

TRACK 8) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Spanish] (1977 Castilian dub)

TRACK 9) 1.0 Dolby Digital [Spanish] (1980 Latino dub)

TRACK 10) 1.0 Dolby Digital [Portuguese] (1980s Brazilian dub)

TRACK 11) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Japanese] (1978 Dub)

TRACK 12) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Italian] (1977 dub)

TRACK 13) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Polish] (1995 Voiceover)

TRACK 14) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Czech] (1992 dub)

TRACK 15) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Hungarian] (1984 dub)

TRACK 16) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (1993 LD Audio Commentary - silence filled with 1993 LD 2.0)

TRACK 17) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (2004 DVD Audio Commentary - recut to fit this release)

TRACK 18) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (2004 starwars.com Audio Commentary - recut to fit this release)

TRACK 19) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (2011 BD Archival Interviews Audio Commentary - recut to fit this release)

TRACK 20) 2.0 Dolby Digital [Isolated Score] (Compiled by hairy_hen)

TRACK 21) 2.0 Dolby Digital [English] (Commentary For Visually Impaired)

[koberulz]

Yes, that information is available by looking at the file. Not that the first film was one of the ones I was asking about to begin with.

[crissrudd4554]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Yes, that information is available by looking at the file. Not that the first film was one of the ones I was asking about to begin with.

What ARE you asking about???????

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Zen_Amako

It's hard for anything to have as much impact as the original Star Wars did because of the amount of media saturation that we have now. These days, most films and TV shows - even big hits - are quickly forgotten because there's always so much new content coming out to compete for our attention (and $). When the original SW came out in 1977, there was nothing else like it. It was awe-inspiring. People watched it over and over for their entire childhood. Hard to see that happening now.

Let’s keep in mind that attention spans are at an all time low, and dropping. Thanks, in large part, to the aforementioned content/social media/technology.
So creating that type of lasting impact is going to be quite the feat.

[chas speed]

I was watching the special edition of "Return of the Jedi" and was shocked during the final fade out that the Ewok planet now looks like Metropolis/Blade Runner and The Jetsons all rolled into one. Is it me or does this make any sense at all?

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by crissrudd4554

What ARE you asking about???????

It's spread out a bit between his posts, but he originally asked about the 6 sets of "English" subtitles in whatever version download of 4K83 he found.

Originally Posted by koberulz

I asked this on the trilogy forums, but that place seems to be completely dead at the moment: What are the six different sets of English subtitles that come with 4K83?

Originally Posted by Weirded Wonder

full
native
nocrawl
sdh native
template
titles

Originally Posted by Weirded Wonder

I played through the various srt files and the first three appear to be the same, just the dialogue on the screen. SDH Native has the R2 D2 beeps cheerily and things like, guard grunts were as the first three do not. Template appears to be the same as the first three. And Titles only has text during the titles at the beginning.

From what I can find, most fan projects use the Project Threepio subtitle files. I think some of the files aren't intended for inclusion on a final distribution. The "template" subtitles, for example, are apparently supposed to serve as a template for translating into a different language.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/65#1238488

The “template” Project Threepio timing is a little on the slow side by English standards, which makes it suitable for younger viewers in English, but can also accommodate slightly wordier languages (for example, IIRC LexX’s Finnish timing was slower than the template on a few lines, but was actually faster on most). Which means it is probably painfully slow for CJK languages, and still too fast for Malayalam (short story on this language: I gave up). Right now I’m working on an “even slower” standard which can better accommodate languages like Vietnamese, and I’m hoping this will also get Urdu workable. We’ll see.

These fan projects aren't terribly organized, and the info about Project Threepio is scattered through that thread. There's apparently a README included in the "full" Project Threepio download (all subtitle files) if you can get it, but that info doesn't look to ever be posted in the thread. There are occasional "changelog" posts.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/71#1286759

I did find some info on "naming conventions" for the subtitles:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/61#1183643

That part would be covered in the “Project Threepio’s file naming convention” section.

SW-eng-native.sup: A set of subtitles that cover what most people would want.
SW-eng-sdh-native.sup: A set of subtitles that include SDH (deaf & hard of hearing) audio cues.
SW-eng-alien-35mm.sup: Greedo’s subtitles, for use with preservations that don’t have burnt-in Greedo subs.
SW-eng-match-35mm.sup: A set of subtitles for the rest of the film, designed to look like Greedo’s subs (similar font & style).

SW means Star Wars, ESB means Empire, ROTJ means Jedi. I’d recommend against using SRT files unless you have no other option.

So, in short, -eng-native is probably what you’re looking for, unless you want SDH cues....


native: onscreen text is not subtitled, designed for video with burnt-in alien subtitles
nocrawl: onscreen text is not subtitled, designed for video without burnt-in alien subtitles

So to break it down again:

• native - onscreen text is not subtitled, for video with burnt-in alien subtitles
• nocrawl - No subtitles for the opening crawl - onscreen text is not subtitled, includes subtitles for alien speech, replacing for video without burnt-in alien subtitles
• sdh native - onscreen text is not subtitled, SDH text included
• template - template for creating other translations
• titles - unclear, but possibly title/crawl only

In Regards to ESB audio:

Originally Posted by koberulz

For that matter, the audio as well. There's apparently a 2018 mix of the 5.1, which I assumed was a remix but the Despecialised Episode V has an original 5.1 mix, so what's the story there? Episode V also has a 16mm mono mix with its own dedicated subs so is there different dialog?

From the description included, it looks like the audio was taken from the ones used for the Harmy Despecialized version.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Ha...LABLE/id/12511

Found on another discussion:
https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2102....html#pid42472

So basically, the Despecialized MKVs contain:

1. DTS-HD MA 5.1 - Hairy_Hen upmix of the 1993 laserdisc remixes of all 3 films (except SW77, which is essentially that but edited to match in-theater recordings of the 1977 70mm six-track mix, so it's a "recreation" of the original 1977 surround as best as can be done at the moment)
2. DTS-HD MA 2.0 - Lossless encodes of the original 1977/1980/1983 35mm stereo tracks, captured from laserdisc PCM tracks
3. DTS-HD MA 1.0 (SW77 and ESB only) - unique mono mixes - SW77 is the original 1977 35mm mono mix, taken from a few sources including an early-1980s VHS recording from TV, patched as necessary with other sources; ESB is a mono mix used on 16mm prints, primarily taken from Puggo's 16mm transfer.
4. Dolby Digital 2.0 (SW77 Only) - 1985 stereo home video remix, encoded from laserdisc PCM capture (mostly the same as the 1977 stereo, but wider dynamic range and an extra Threepio line about the Death Star tractor beam)
5. Dolby Digital 2.0 - 1993 stereo home video remixes, encoded from laserdisc PCM captures; this is the same mix included on the 2006 bonus DVD ("GOUT") releases, but taken from the LD and not the 192Kbps DVD audio

More info on the ESB mono mix:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Em...-INFO/id/15865

The history of this mix is completely unknown but it was determined that it was created after the 70mm and 35mm mixes perhaps for the 16mm market (schools, hospitals, etc) and has some similarities with foreign mixes which points to its chronological history. This mix is not a simple fold-down of the theatrical mixes and contains many differences such as new or alternate dialogue and sounds, more prominent music and effects (to account for the low dynamic range of the mono film standard), and oddly enough, some lines such as "the first transport is away" and "meet you at the rendez vous spot" are shifted completely.

BTW, I didn't know any of this before crafting this post. All the information is out there, it's just scattered about, and not well organized or compiled, at least in a readily available way.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by chas speed

I was watching the special edition of "Return of the Jedi" and was shocked during the final fade out that the Ewok planet now looks like Metropolis/Blade Runner and The Jetsons all rolled into one. Is it me or does this make any sense at all?

Those are supposed to be different planets celebrating. You’ll notice that Jar Jar Binks (or some random Gungan, as if there’s really a difference ) screams “Weesa free!”

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by chas speed

I was watching the special edition of "Return of the Jedi" and was shocked during the final fade out that the Ewok planet now looks like Metropolis/Blade Runner and The Jetsons all rolled into one. Is it me or does this make any sense at all?

[chas speed]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Those are supposed to be different planets celebrating. You’ll notice that Jar Jar Binks (or some random Gungan, as if there’s really a difference ) screams “Weesa free!”

..but I thought they were on the Ewok planet. It just kind of doesn't seem like they would move a planet full of modern space buildings to a forest like planet for a celebration. I would think it would have taken decades to move all that stuff. Anyway, I thought the non special edition seemed to make more sense.

[Comicfan]

Return Of The Jedi is still my favorite Star Wars film.I will admit a big part of the reason is because my father took me to see it in the theater in '83 when I was a little kid.It was the first Star Wars film I saw in the theater.So it holds a special place in my heart.I remember seeing that and Superman III in the theater with my dad(I was in love with Superman II from T.V. before I saw III) and E.T. the year before with both my parents.These three films were the first live action films I saw in a movie theater.

I will freely acknowledge A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are the better films but Jedi remains my favorite.And my mom than took me see the re-release of Jedi in '85.So I actually saw Return Of The Jedi three times in the movies.1983,1985 and ofcourse 1997 for the Special Editions.

What's funny is that when I saw Jedi in the theater in '83,I had seen A New Hope on T.V. and had all the toys for both films but I hadn't seen Empire.I actually didn't see Empire Strikes Back until 1986 when my family got Cable.We got our first VCR in '86 that year too(I used to nag my parents about getting a VCR up to that point(Remember,I'm still a little kid then).So when I saw Jedi in the movies,I hadn't seen the second film yet and didn't know Vader was Luke's father.So the first time it's mentioned in the film,I was all shocked and I remember my father having to quite me down in the theater.lol That wasn't the right order to see the trilogy in.

So I saw Jedi three times in the theater('83,'85,'97).The rest of the original trilogy I saw twice in the theater in '97.I saw each film of the prequel trilogy twice in the theater during their releases in '99,'02 and '05(I enjoy the prequels).

The sequel trilogy and anthology films I only have seen once in the theater.I don't see movies more than once in the theater nowadays.A combination of time,money and the fact movies are released on home media very quickly are the reason.The last film I saw more than one time in a theater was The Dark Knight in '08(saw it two times in the theater).

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by chas speed

..but I thought they were on the Ewok planet. It just kind of doesn't seem like they would move a planet full of modern space buildings to a forest like planet for a celebration. I would think it would have taken decades to move all that stuff. Anyway, I thought the non special edition seemed to make more sense.

It’s called editing. They’re cutting to different locations during that final celebration sequence. That was Corrusant, I believe (so?). It was shown several times throughout the prequel trilogy.

[chas speed]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

It’s called editing. They’re cutting to different locations during that final celebration sequence. That was Corrusant, I believe (so?). It was shown several times throughout the prequel trilogy.

OK, I didn't catch it. I thought they were still on the Ewok planet. Thanks.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by chas speed

..but I thought they were on the Ewok planet. It just kind of doesn't seem like they would move a planet full of modern space buildings to a forest like planet for a celebration. I would think it would have taken decades to move all that stuff. Anyway, I thought the non special edition seemed to make more sense.

The main characters are still on the Ewok planet. A montage of other planets celebrating is shown.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Jay G.

It's spread out a bit between his posts, but he originally asked about the 6 sets of "English" subtitles in whatever version download of 4K83 he found.


From what I can find, most fan projects use the Project Threepio subtitle files. I think some of the files aren't intended for inclusion on a final distribution. The "template" subtitles, for example, are apparently supposed to serve as a template for translating into a different language.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/65#1238488


These fan projects aren't terribly organized, and the info about Project Threepio is scattered through that thread. There's apparently a README included in the "full" Project Threepio download (all subtitle files) if you can get it, but that info doesn't look to ever be posted in the thread. There are occasional "changelog" posts.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/71#1286759

I did find some info on "naming conventions" for the subtitles:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Pr...age/61#1183643


So to break it down again:

• native - onscreen text is not subtitled, for video with burnt-in alien subtitles
• nocrawl - No subtitles for the opening crawl - onscreen text is not subtitled, includes subtitles for alien speech, replacing for video without burnt-in alien subtitles
• sdh native - onscreen text is not subtitled, SDH text included
• template - template for creating other translations
• titles - unclear, but possibly title/crawl only

In Regards to ESB audio:

From the description included, it looks like the audio was taken from the ones used for the Harmy Despecialized version.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Ha...LABLE/id/12511

Found on another discussion:
https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2102....html#pid42472


More info on the ESB mono mix:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Em...-INFO/id/15865


BTW, I didn't know any of this before crafting this post. All the information is out there, it's just scattered about, and not well organized or compiled, at least in a readily available way.

Jesus F'n Christ. Can you please do a TL;DR for all this?

What do you want to know?

[Jlouisbarrett]

They want to know what the difference is between the various English subtitle tracks available in 4K83.

[The Batman Professor]

Originally Posted by Class316

Han/Greedo scene has to be the biggest embarrassment in tampering history. In my any topic on earth, you can find different opinions. Yet this scene, there isn't a single individual besides George Lucas that will tell you that scene wasn't find and perfect before it was ever touched. All that work done over the decades when it would have been simpler and better to literally do nothing.

I’m one of the few oldtimers (saw STAR WARS 25 times between 77-80) that prefer the SE’s to the original iterations. That said, there are some really bad alterations made in the SE’s, even for me. The above is #2 IMO, with JEDI ROCKS being the one that most makes me want to claw my eyes out.

Maclunkey!

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

Jesus F'n Christ. Can you please do a TL;DR for all this?

What do you want to know?

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

They want to know what the difference is between the various English subtitle tracks available in 4K83.

To be clear, it's koberulz that wants to know something. I was providing answers.

The tl;dr is that on the 4K83 download koberulz has, of the six English subtitle tracks available, most are superfluous and shouldn't be there, while "native" should work for anyone that can hear, and "sdh native" should be used for anyone that's deaf or hard of hearing (SDH = subtitles for the deaf or hard of hearing).

For the Empire Stikes Back download koberulz has, the "16 mm mono" track is of a mono mix of the movie from a 16mm print that has some unique dialogue changes, hence why it has its own English subtitles.

[bobbyh64]

Why are there so many versions of the mixes that contain slight dialogue changes? Is that just an early example of Lucas changing his mind and tinkering whenever there’s a new/different release?

[RevengeOfToonces]

Originally Posted by The Batman Professor

I’m one of the few oldtimers (saw STAR WARS 25 times between 77-80) that prefer the SE’s to the original iterations. That said, there are some really bad alterations made in the SE’s, even for me. The above is #2 IMO, with JEDI ROCKS being the one that most makes me want to claw my eyes out.

Maclunkey!

Jedi Rocks is awful, but I think the original song and choreography is just as awful. I never liked that scene. As far as Greedo saying "MacLunkey," I don't know who MacLunkey is, but I'm positive there must have been a stipulation in the contract that whenever Disney releases a new version of A New Hope, they MUST troll the fans a little harder with that scene.

I thought I was done with Star Wars, but gave The Mandalorian a shot and loved it. I then gave Last Jedi a re-watch and actually kind of liked it this time. I just got Solo last night on 4K for completion's sake. My love/hate relationship soldiers on.