Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by IndefinentBlu

But we may also get a reviewer who hates Star Wars and this person will try to dissuade people from buying.

I'm figuring that there will be multiple reviews from various sources, so the B.S. should weed itself out that way. Besides, with the reviews here on this site, even if they give the movie, in-and-of itself, a low score, they still tend to judge the PQ and AQ indepenendtly of that. There have been plenty of reviews here in which the movie itself got a low score while the PQ and/or AQ got high scores, and vice versa. So, I'm not too worried in that regard.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by IndefinentBlu

But we may also get a reviewer who hates Star Wars and this person will try to dissuade people from buying.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Just use a reviewer you trust (we all have one or two). But def DO NOT go with what the Star Wars Insider writes. It is a promotional rag (I used to subscribe) and does nothing other than write glowing stories about anything Star Wars. As far as I am concerned the article will not be worth reading. It may give some small insight to special features but it will not address the bigger concerns you mayhave (i.e. coloring and sound issues).

You can already tell where they stand on the Blu Ray release just be looking at the article title: "Picture Perfect!" The Star Wars Insider is basically like reading articles you would think were written by Rick McCallum in his George Lucas best man suck days: "Its amazing! Will Blow you away! George has the best ideas!" So, basically, take everything they write with a grain of salt.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

Looks like we might finally have some insight into how the Blu Rays will look in April! Here is the cover for the Star Wars Insider coming out on April 27th!

Sweet! Thanks for posting that! Can't wait to see what new additions and improvements have been made to the OT.

[bytor_one]

Oh I didnt even realize they were selling the original trilogy separately! Thats very cool.

I really dont want to watch the prequels ever again. Actually a while back I stumbled on these reviews some guy does of the prequels, and suddenly I remember everything I hated about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AW...eature=related

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by bytor_one

Oh I didnt even realize they were selling the original trilogy separately! Thats very cool.

I really dont want to watch the prequels ever again. Actually a while back I stumbled on these reviews some guy does of the prequels, and suddenly I remember everything I hated about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AW...eature=related

After watching a few minutes of that review, I realized why this guy wanted GL to keep the PT simple... It's all he can grasp. Seriously, the guy sounds like a low grade moron.

[bytor_one]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

After watching a few minutes of that review, I realized why this guy wanted GL to keep the PT simple... It's all he can grasp. Seriously, the guy sounds like a low grade moron.

I think he just didnt want these prequels to be as lame as they are. And he's talking like that on purpose, as he rips these awful films to shreds.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

After watching a few minutes of that review, I realized why this guy wanted GL to keep the PT simple... It's all he can grasp. Seriously, the guy sounds like a low grade moron.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by bytor_one

Oh I didnt even realize they were selling the original trilogy separately! Thats very cool.

I really dont want to watch the prequels ever again. Actually a while back I stumbled on these reviews some guy does of the prequels, and suddenly I remember everything I hated about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AW...eature=related

Unfortuantely Lucas is holding an extra disc ransom so you won't be getting it unless you go for the whole package.

I guarantee that the OT will sell better than the PT individually.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by bytor_one

I think he just didnt want these prequels to be as lame as they are. And he's talking like that on purpose, as he rips these awful films to shreds.

No he doesn't. He's just whining because they're not as simplistic as the OT. Not that I don't like the OT. I like the OT & PT equally. He just comes off as though story progression is a bad thing. He wanted 6 films of simplistic, black & white, childish monotony. He even used an image of kids watching the PT while stating something to the effect that these (PT) movies should be more child oriented. Sorry, but all the kids who grew up on the OT did just that... Grew up. Maybe the story does have holes. That's George Lucas for ya. There are inconsistencies throughout all of the films, not just the PT. He blasts (or attempts to) TPM for it's story, yet fails to see the obvious similarities & mirrorizations (is that a word?) between it and ANH, which he seems to love so dearly.

[longhornsgirl]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

No he doesn't. He's just whining because they're not as simplistic as the OT. Not that I don't like the OT. I like the OT & PT equally. He just comes off as though story progression is a bad thing. He wanted 6 films of simplistic, black & white, childish monotony. He even used an image of kids watching the PT while stating something to the effect that these (PT) movies should be more child oriented. Sorry, but all the kids who grew up on the OT did just that... Grew up. Maybe the story does have holes. That's George Lucas for ya. There are inconsistencies throughout all of the films, not just the PT. He blasts (or attempts to) TPM for it's story, yet fails to see the obvious similarities & mirrorizations (is that a word?) between it and ANH, which he seems to love so dearly.

Are you kidding? Those are the best reviews out their for the PT. Everything he says about TPM is right with the lack of a real story or main character or anything in general.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I would also love to see that one in TESB and ROTJ, but I doubt it's going to happen.

I was able to ignore Greedo shooting first.

I was able to ignore Jabba's new musical revue. I even, God help me, may have defended it.

I will not be able to ignore any CG tampering with Yoda in Empire. The phrase "deal breaker" undersells it by leaps and bounds. As with many people, The Empire Strikes Back is my absolute, all-time, everlasting favourite film. If this were to happen, aside from the initial weeks of weeping, I'll subsequently be in a bad mood for decades. DECADES.

Naturally everyone's entitled to their opinion, but boy oh boy, grizzly bears will hear my shriek from miles away and bolt in terror.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

He's not "whining". He makes plenty of great points about the issues with the PT. It's not a matter of things being "simple" or not... it's a matter of things just not adding up, period.

You can't tell much by only watching only a few minutes of the video. And the voice isn't his regular, normal voice, he is doing the reviews as some other character (which I will admit the voice does get annoying after a while, and I would have preferred a straight review without the 'character' nonsense attached to it... apparently he did it this way to make it more humorous). But the reviews, themselves, are brilliant and insightful.

You can knock it all that you want, but the video has 8,386 likes and only 268 dislikes. If the PT fans were as plentiful as some here would like to claim and believe, you would think that they'd be adding a lot more to the dislike side of that videos and the rest that go with it.

[JamesKurtovich]

The ultimate point is that Lucas went for something that he apparently didn't have the ability to do, maybe.

Or maybe he did but he just didn't have anybody to help him in his path (constructive criticism?) or the motivation to spend more time on the script and look at how the story is told to someone who doesn't already have it all in their head.

I certainly feel that the PT would have benefited from a more simplistic approach (how the fans perceive the story unfolding) because many times I was lost and felt a bit frustrated. I also felt way too detached from the characters who don't show emotion unless it's an emotional scene and have no development whatsoever. Or maybe it was just how the characters were portrayed... Anakin Skywalker? Nothing more needs to be said about him in the PT.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

The ultimate point is that Lucas went for something that he apparently didn't have the ability to do, maybe.

Or maybe he did but he just didn't have anybody to help him in his path (constructive criticism?) or the motivation to spend more time on the script and look at how the story is told to someone who doesn't already have it all in their head.

I certainly feel that the PT would have benefited from a more simplistic approach (how the fans perceive the story unfolding) because many times I was lost and felt a bit frustrated. I also felt way too detached from the characters who don't show emotion unless it's an emotional scene and have no development whatsoever. Or maybe it was just how the characters were portrayed... Anakin Skywalker? Nothing more needs to be said about him in the PT.

These are very good points.


And really, when you get down to it, niether trilogy should be that much more 'complex' than the other. The PT can be summarized as Palpatine manipultes everyone and creates the Empire crowning himself as the Emperor... and Anakin Skywalker falls to the Dark side and becomes Darth Vader.

The OT can be summed up as Luke Skywalker learns the ways of the force and becomes a Jedi, and his father redeems himself by defeating the Emperor and restoring freedom and democracy to the Galaxy.

Yet, somehow, the PT is a huge cluster-****.


I think part of the problem is this...

While I'm sure that there were many variations and rewrites along the way, Lucas at least pretty much had a basic outline in his head for the original trilogy when he first started to embark upon it. Most of the characters (some of whom we might not see until later in the Trilogy) were more or less conceived early on. So, there was a direction, there was a flow. In the original version of the original film, even though we didn't see Jabba the Hutt (because they didn't have the tech or budget to make him possible then), we heard about him... he was part of Han Solo's back story and motivation in what he was doing. For two full movies people heard about this character, and then finally in ROTJ people saw him.

Even with the Special Editions, even though Jabba is seen right away (and even though that seen is very redundant dialog-wise to the Greedo seen that preceeds it), it still establishes that history between Han and Jabba, and it helps keep things well pieced together. (Mind you, this Han/Jabba thing is just one example, this same thing applies to other characters and overall story points and events as well).



By contrast, when Lucas was conceiving the PT, I don't think he had things (at least not in terms of the characters that would be brand new to the franchise and had never appeared in the OT in any form) very well thought out at all.

He seemed to have a very basic outline in his head about rougly what would happen to the characters from the OT (i.e. Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, Akakin/Vader, R2, 3PO) over the course of the three movies.

However, I get a very strong feeling that when he actually sat down and wrote Episode I, he hadn't even yet conceived of Count Dooku as a character. Likewise, I think when he wrote Episode II, he hadn't conceived of General Grevious yet either. This extends beyond just these two charaters, and actually goes for many other characters and plot points.

In each subsequent Prequel movie, there are these characters who are suddenly pivital to the plot (or in some cases events that have been unfolding 'behind the seens'), and based on what we are told supposedly have been for some time in some cases.

If Lucas had instead really thought through the entire PT (including all events, big or small, and all new characters) upfront rather than coming up with it as he went along, this all likely would have fit together a hell of the lot better.


When people point these things out about the PT (i.e. how characters are suddenly important and pivital to the plot, but were never previously mentioned), this is where Beast likes to say his stupid line about how people want the movies to stop and for the characters to introduce themselves. But that is NOT what anyone is asking for. We are just asking for character and plot development like we got in the OT. Jabba the Hutt wasn't really essential to the primary story line (the rebellion vs. the Empire) in the OT, yet we knew a pretty good amount about him and his past with one of the main characters when all was said and done.

Now, there are many ways of developing a character and overall plot points. Some of those can be verbal, through dialog and explanations. Some can be non verbal and more visual. While we didn't know much about Darth Vader in ANH, he was just a tall, powerful, mysterious, and menacing looking character that there were a lot of non-verbal queues as to who he was.



And bringing in characters with little or no forewarning can work when and if done correctly. For example, take Lando in ESB. We didn't really ever hear of him until just briefly before Han, Leia, etc, landed at cloud city. But that made sense given the circumstances. It's not like Han was going out of his way to search for and find his old friend, but just never mentioned it until the last second .... they needed a place to stop for a while, and they happened to be near Cloud City, and it's explained that Lando is someone from Han's past. It made sense. Lando is not built up to be pivital to the primary events of the OT up to that point (unlike Dooku and Grevious when we are respectively introduced to them in the PT).

And what really drives me nuts is that it seems like a lot of things in Episode II are described as having happened 10 years ago (around the time Episode I takes place in), but these are things that were apparently all happening "off camera" or immediately following the parade at the end, or something like that. They just weren't well thought out in that respect.




There are also lots of little unresolved tangents in the PT. The Lucas/PT 'defenders' like to explain this away as it being a more complex plot and something that requires the audience to think and not have the answers handed to them. And frankly, that's a very weak, B.S. excuse. It's just sloppy writing with many little unresolved loose ends... plain and simple. The purpose of the PT is for the events to simply and cleanly bring us to the door step of the OT (it is "meant" to be looked at as one big saga instead of 2 separate trilogies, afterall), but it just leaves people confused about a lot of little things.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

These are very good points.


And really, when you get down to it, niether trilogy should be that much more 'complex' than the other. The PT can be summarized as Palpatine manipultes everyone and creates the Empire crowning himself as the Emperor... and Anakin Skywalker falls to the Dark side and becomes Darth Vader.

The OT can be summed up as Luke Skywalker learns the ways of the force and becomes a Jedi, and his father redeems himself by defeating the Emperor and restoring freedom and democracy to the Galaxy.

Yet, somehow, the PT is a huge cluster-****.


I think part of the problem is this...

While I'm sure that there were many variations and rewrites along the way, Lucas at least pretty much had a basic outline in his head for the original trilogy when he first started to embark upon it. Most of the characters (some of whom we might not see until later in the Trilogy) were more or less conceived early on. So, there was a direction, there was a flow. In the original version of the original film, even though we didn't see Jabba the Hutt (because they didn't have the tech or budget to make him possible then), we heard about him... he was part of Han Solo's back story and motivation in what he was doing. For two full movies people heard about this character, and then finally in ROTJ people saw him.

Even with the Special Editions, even though Jabba is seen right away (and even though that seen is very redundant dialog-wise to the Greedo seen that preceeds it), it still establishes that history between Han and Jabba, and it helps keep things well pieced together. (Mind you, this Han/Jabba thing is just one example, this same thing applies to other characters and overall story points and events as well).



By contrast, when Lucas was conceiving the PT, I don't think he had things (at least not in terms of the characters that would be brand new to the franchise and had never appeared in the OT in any form) very well thought out at all.

He seemed to have a very basic outline in his head about rougly what would happen to the characters from the OT (i.e. Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, Akakin/Vader, R2, 3PO) over the course of the three movies.

However, I get a very strong feeling that when he actually sat down and wrote Episode I, he hadn't even yet conceived of Count Dooku as a character. Likewise, I think when he wrote Episode II, he hadn't conceived of General Grevious yet either. This extends beyond just these two charaters, and actually goes for many other characters and plot points.

In each subsequent Prequel movie, there are these characters who are suddenly pivital to the plot (or in some cases events that have been unfolding 'behind the seens'), and based on what we are told supposedly have been for some time in some cases.

If Lucas had instead really thought through the entire PT (including all events, big or small, and all new characters) upfront rather than coming up with it as he went along, this all likely would have fit together a hell of the lot better.


When people point these things out about the PT (i.e. how characters are suddenly important and pivital to the plot, but were never previously mentioned), this is where Beast likes to say his stupid line about how people want the movies to stop and for the characters to introduce themselves. But that is NOT what anyone is asking for. We are just asking for character and plot development like we got in the OT. Jabba the Hutt wasn't really essential to the primary story line (the rebellion vs. the Empire) in the OT, yet we knew a pretty good amount about him and his past with one of the main characters when all was said and done.

Now, there are many ways of developing a character and overall plot points. Some of those can be verbal, through dialog and explanations. Some can be non verbal and more visual. While we didn't know much about Darth Vader in ANH, he was just a tall, powerful, mysterious, and menacing looking character that there were a lot of non-verbal queues as to who he was.



And bringing in characters with little or no forewarning can work when and if done correctly. For example, take Lando in ESB. We didn't really ever hear of him until just briefly before Han, Leia, etc, landed at cloud city. But that made sense given the circumstances. It's not like Han was going out of his way to search for and find his old friend, but just never mentioned it until the last second .... they needed a place to stop for a while, and they happened to be near Cloud City, and it's explained that Lando is someone from Han's past. It made sense. Lando is not built up to be pivital to the primary events of the OT up to that point (unlike Dooku and Grevious when we are respectively introduced to them in the PT).

And what really drives me nuts is that it seems like a lot of things in Episode II are described as having happened 10 years ago (around the time Episode I takes place in), but these are things that were apparently all happening "off camera" or immediately following the parade at the end, or something like that. They just weren't well thought out in that respect.




There are also lots of little unresolved tangents in the PT. The Lucas/PT 'defenders' like to explain this away as it being a more complex plot and something that requires the audience to think and not have the answers handed to them. And frankly, that's a very weak, B.S. excuse. It's just sloppy writing with many little unresolved loose ends... plain and simple. The purpose of the PT is for the events to simply and cleanly bring us to the door step of the OT (it is "meant" to be looked at as one big saga instead of 2 separate trilogies, afterall), but it just leaves people confused about a lot of little things.

You need to read The Secret History of Star Wars and you will learn that Lucas made up most of it as he went along. Vader being Luke's father wasnt decided until AFTER Star Wars was already booming in theaters.

Its one of the best reads on the history of Star Wars that isnt doctored by Lucas.

[Gaius Marius]

Originally Posted by Imrahil2001

Nah, not everything in the SW universe needs a story to explain it. And I just don't buy that the Force can bring down a Star Destroyer. That's what's known as a 'fanwank.'

That is the only part of the game I have a problem with, actually I like TFU, but the idea that the Force can take down a Star Destroyer is far fetched (plus it was a pain in the butt in game as well). If all it took to bring down a Star Destroyer was a bit of Force, then Vader should have been able to destroy the Rebellion himself The rest of the game is a blast, and the story is actually pretty interesting as it delves into the foundation of the Rebellion.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Unfortuantely Lucas is holding an extra disc ransom so you won't be getting it unless you go for the whole package.

I guarantee that the OT will sell better than the PT individually.

I guarantee the SE will sell better than the UOT. That's if he decides to release the UOT on BD. If he does, I guarantee it will be another LD port. And, I guarantee I'll be LMAO!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

After watching a few minutes of that review, I realized why this guy wanted GL to keep the PT simple... It's all he can grasp. Seriously, the guy sounds like a low grade moron.

There's a 108 page rebuttle of the Red Letter Media review floating around somewhere. A study of Fanboy Stupidity. If someone rebuts this, the internet will explode....

[TylerDurden]

Good Points Dynamo of Eternia. Another character that is verbally introduced but not seen is the Emperor. Grand Mof Tarkin tells the Death Star commanders that the Emperor has disolved the senate. The chracter later appears in a hologram transmission to Vader. And then finally we see the character in ROTJ. This is a very effective way of introducing a someone new. I remember as a kid I was very excited to see the Emperor and Jabba the Hut introduced into the trilogy.

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

No he doesn't. He's just whining because they're not as simplistic as the OT.

Sorry OG, I have to disagree. Not necessarily on the quality of the films, but on your assessment of the reviewer. Red Letter is a fairly well established reviewer who is known for fairly in depth reviews and an extensive knowledge of film. The "moron" aspect is a character choice for.. I don't know... entertainment purposes I suppose.

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

After watching a few minutes of that review.

His review of the prequel trilogy is over four hours long. That's enough time to get into some pretty deep analysis. In that time I don't think he claims the films should be simpler, simply that the complexity doesn't always add up; that there are many logical holes and thematic oversights.

Now I don't agree with all of his assertions, but if you listen to his entire reviews of these (or other films), you can't say he's simplistic or simply wants the films dumbed down.

I actually recommend his review of Trek'09. It was neither glowing or damning (although generally positive), just a fairly good breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of the film.