Off-topic BOSE discussion

[Woody]

The obsession with Bose bashing on this forum is ASTOUNDING.

My list of most BR.com obsessions ranked by degree of annoyance.

1. Bose bashing
2. Monster cable bashing
3. Klipsch love

You people need to give it a rest. If you don't like a product, say you don't like it and move on. And vise versa.


The OP gives good information showing why Bose is lacking on the audio side, which leads to 240+ posts of HAHAHA I knew it Bose SUX and anyone who buys it is an idiot!!!!

Bose is what it is, an excellent marketing company, with MANY loyal customers.

I will ask again, show me a 5.1 system (with in-wall AND on-wall options, in addition it in-floor sub options), with a receiver, AM/FM tuner, DVD player, a self-calibration system (similar to audyessy), a hard drive, an RF remote, and the ability to control 15 different zones of music (2 different sources). And show me all of that with the aesthetics of the Bose system, and that costs no more than $2000.

I am of course asking a question that I know the answer to. You won't find anything close to that for $2000.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

There are thousands and thousands of threads here at Blu-ray.com - if BOSE bashing is your biggest annoyance I can recommend one thread you should just steer clear of.....this one.

I will give it a rest when I'm damned good and ready.

Good marketing when duping people should be exposed.

Get over yourself. Bashing Bose is masturbation for many of you. And then belittling Bose owners is the icing on the cake for many posters here.

Grow up.

Some people actually are grown-ups, they can make their own purchasing decisions. Who are you to tell them to audition different speakers if they LOVE the way Bose sounds?

Duping people? Where does Bose list their specs and lie about them? How is it duping people when you are potentially offering something noone else can touch for the money (the system I asked about)? How is it duping people when someone maybe *gasp* likes the way they sound, or look??

Not sure what is worse, the bashing, the belittling, or the justification of the bashing.

Like I said, we get it, you don't like Bose, we don't need you to carry on and tell us 75 times about it because you are angry at all the injustices in the world caused by Bose marketing.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

There are thousands and thousands of threads here at Blu-ray.com - if BOSE bashing is your biggest annoyance I can recommend one thread you should just steer clear of.....this one.

I will give it a rest when I'm damned good and ready.

Good marketing when duping people should be exposed.

Oh and Bose bashing shows up in FAR more threads than this one.

You above many should know that.

I wouldnt care if were only this thread, but lots of people think it is necessary to interject their Bose opinion in many threads.

Hence the "annoyance".

[Woody]

Originally Posted by Azyiu

Woody offers some very good points. For me though, the main reasons I chose Bose are its simplicity and the easy installation. I mean, I am not hi-fi expert, and my place isn't big enough for something high-end anyway, so I thought going Bose isn't a bad choice for what I need.

We will see down the road, but for the time being I am happy with the LifeStyle 18 system that I've got. If anything at all, I only hate it for not supporting HDMI; luckily it does support optical cable.

Exactly. I didn't even mention the all-in-one convenience of a lifestyle system. Incredibly easy to hookup.

Bose will soon have HDMI also. Bose is notorious for not being cutting edge on technologies, they wait until something is established and thoroughly supported before including it.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Your points about Joe Blow are valid, but that doesn't rebut the purpose of education about such topics.

I know that the brand of speakers you’re referring to sometimes gets mentioned in the negative by fans of higher resolution music, but I think part of that has been forced by how many people feel that the particular brand is the end all and be all of speaker lines, when it most definitely is not.

I also disagree that this is a movie site. It’s a site about a medium; so PC, gaming, movies, music, industrial usage, camcorders and storage are all encompassed here. We’ve already seen dedicate music released on Blu-ray with no video and hopefully with Warner/Rhino stepping in later this year SonyBMG, Universal Music Group and EMI may follow suit.

Exactly, the consumers "need" educated. Whether they "want" to be is another argument. Anywho, educating consumers was the intent of the OP. The piling on of bitter Bose haters is not.

To address your other post. I find 1 thing in that Bose marketing to be misleading, when they say the full range of sound. To argue that they say their system is "deep", and that they are "duping" people is asanine. How deep is deep?

Also if the b*tching was relegated to this thread only I would have no problem, but as you know it is not.

So people bashing someone elses gear AND THE PERSON without knowing anything about the situation in which the person purchased the gear, is the same as calling someone out for being ingnorant and insensitive??!?

Once again, grow up.


Yes, I think every site that has ever reviewed any Bose equipment and has done any testing should be shut down. Boy that would make perfect sense.


Of course people will always benefit from education, of course Bose isn't the best system, of course Bose isn't the best sounding system, of course you are on a "save the world from Bose crusade".

Guess what some customers say to me when I start talking about "frequency response" and "speakers need to go down to 20hz". THEY LARGELY DON'T GIVE A CRAP!!! They want the system to sound good to them. And they don't need (or even remotely WANT) some grandstanding, agenda-driven opinion of a crusader, attempting to force them to buy something they don't want.

And if I did start a thread about Bose, its purpose would be to educate, as the OP tried, and not to make people feel stupid for buying something that I have a personal vendetta against.

It is a piece of gear, you are not trying to rid the world of tyranny.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by Entertainment72

Pics are from Crutchfield, but obviously you can find them cheaper.



Right now the Onkyo 805 has my sights.. but only time will tell.

I would like to add I don't feel cheated with my Bose AM16 6.1 system 5+ years ago, contrary to popular belief sound does come out of them. I am also not a sound nut and could care less about having the absolute best sound, just decent sound of which the Bose provided for me.

WHAT??!?!?

BLASPHEMY!?!?!

[Woody]

Originally Posted by Slec

Woody,
you realize you're arguing with the guy that started this thread right?

LOL, at first no, but I just did a bit ago. My original posts concerning the development of this thread was to tell the people who were calling Bose owners "idiots" and they "got ripped off".

He then responded by getting his panties in a bunch that I was referring to him specifically, when in fact the couple pages of posts that I have read, he didnt say those things. It was other posters.

"I will talk whenever I damn well please" or something to that effect, and then tell me to leave if I don't like it. The ignorance (ettiquitte wise) of many posters in this thread spreads throughout these forums about this product in particular.

I just honestly take offense to people who belittle people and people's decisions they don't know anything about.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Really? I thought there was nothing misleading on BOSE's website according to you only moments ago?

Please find that quote for me. When did I EVER talk about Bose's website?

How deep is deep? What frequencies should be covered? Well for starters BOSE is the only speaker company I know of that drops off at 13kHz that doesn't sell their speakers from a white van. If your system plays deep it should hit 30Hz-35Hz. Of course there are systems out there that can get lower, but if you can’t at least get to this realm then advertising your system as “deep” is not subjective, it’s misleading. BOSE has over -10dB as it crosses the 49Hz mark. Sound increases and decreases by half volume every 6dB.

Deep is subjective. I personally don't agree that 30hz is enough for an excellent home theater experience. You do, hence "subjective"

Misleading people and duping them are the exact same thing, there’s nothing asinine about it.

As I said, 1 misleading thing is far from the littany of deception you put on them.

I know not of any such thing – the majority of threads I visit except this one barely mention BOSE at all, your dramatics make it sound like every thread in the home theater section is about BOSE bashing.

Riiiiight, never hear about Bose in any other thread, gotcha.

Can you point out where I’m bashing someone else’s gear and someone else in particular, because I can’t seem to find these occurrences that you’re reading. When you point them out and how I’m belittling someone and bashing their gear and them, I’ll grow up and apologize like I do ANY TIME I’m wrong….because I’m grown up, imagine that!

As I said, you didn't say it, you just got all defensive and ignored all the posts that do. Instead of attacking these posters, you attacked me. I am fine with that.

That seems to be what you’re suggesting in your earlier posts that people should be allowed to buy whatever they want and no opinion against that should be uttered more than once.

Yeah, and I'M dramatic. Gotcha

Yes, because that’s what I spend all my time doing isn’t it, trying to educate people about the woes of BOSE. That’s pretty much all the 50,000+ posts I’ve made between here, Shoot For the Edit, AVS, Audioholics, Ecoustics, Hydrogen Audio, Monroeworld, Ants Marching, High Def Digest, etc., have all been about. That’s all I ever talk about at parties and BBQ’s, roadtrips, tailgating, out at the bar, BOSE, BOSE, BOSE.

Once again, I'M dramatic?

Wow, you sure are pretty glib with the “grow up” comments aren’t you? Hypocrite much?

Sorry, I prefer people don't get crushed for no reason at all.

The way you talk to people and the way I talk to people are obviously two very different things. They probably don't give a crap because they know that you're statements about speakers needing to go down to 20Hz are incorrect. Most people are lucky to have a sub that hits 20Hz.

The difference is, I am not arrogant enough to assume that all customers want all of my opinions/personal preferences on these types of things. If they tell me they want them, I will give them. But believe it or not, not many people care about frequency response.

We're on a single thread on an internet forum. You might win the oscar this year for most dramatic performance, but grand-standing and attention driven? Are you living in a hole somewhere? Am I on CNN or something? Walking around downtown Toronto sending out pamphlets? Or am I on Blu-ray.com sharing my opinion in one thread? Yes, the latter seems to ring more true. So please, spare us all the childish dramatics, it's getting tiresome.

Once again, I'M dramatic?

As for agenda-driven, do please tell us what sort of agenda I could possibly have. I wait with baited breath.

Your agenda here is obviously to crush Bose. The company and the product. Forgive me for interjecting some information about the differing applications and benefits of Bose design, products, and research that you and other posters are not aware of.

I am the OP, thanks for noticing, that might be why I post in my own thread.
Welcome to an internet forum.

Gee thanks

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Semantics. You asked where BOSE lie about their product and deceive people, I pointed out several instances on their website.

You see a lot of words that aren't there don't you? Where do you see "excellent" in my posts or anything of the sort? What I said was that when you're hitting -3dB at 46Hz you cannot under any circumstances consider your system to be powerful and deep, as BOSE does.
My system hits 12Hz, but with flat response hits 16Hz. (Servo 15v2)

Wrong, there are several misleading things.

Not in a manner that would cause someone to have the holier-than-thou outburst that you have had here in my thread.

Ah, no you didn't say that, this is the first time.

Now you're starting to get it! That's called satire. I've taken the manner of person which you describe me to be and used exaggeration to give an incongrous example.

You are arrogant enough however to presume that you can command everyone here to spot posting about BOSE and let the thread die away it would seem. Fortunately 6,000 views suggests that your call to arms has gone unheeded.

Satire is a fickle *****.

Actually BOSE used to be a well respected company 40 years ago, if they were to start paying attention to their motto "Better Sound" then I'd be quite happy to see them thrive. If there is any agenda it is to allow people that think BOSE is some high-end product, of which there are many, to know the truth. That much is obvious. If I wanted to "crush BOSE, the company and the product" (yes, you ARE a drama queen) I would be foolish to think a little thread in a forum could even scratch the surface of what would be needed to take them out.
If my Blu-ray brothers and sisters are made more aware of what they're dealing with, mission accomplished.

Anytime, that's what I'm here for.

I am done playing the quote game.

A few last things though . So when you do it it is satire, when I do it it is drama. We are clear there.

I not once said people should stop posting in this thread. I said people should stop witlessly bashing people who bought this product.

I love the "my system goes down to" classic. Who cares.

You pointed out 1 misleading instance. "Deep" is subjective whether you like it or not.


That was not the first time I made it clear that I hadnt read that "you" were making fun of people. Check the post before the one you just quoted please.

Bose STILL (much to your chagrin it seems), not 40 years ago, has products that fit people's needs, and even some that do it with good engineering AND solid products.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Satire requires a basis I'm afraid, so that's a dead end where you're concerned. I don't think you understand satire if you feel that there was any to be found in your original dramatic post that was directed at me and satire on satire is never amusing it only shows a lack of originality and/or thought.

You are the one that mentioned what a system should go down to in order to be considered excellent; I merely responded what mine goes down to as you inferred that I was suggesting that 35Hz is “excellent”, which is unfounded. So you obviously care otherwise you wouldn’t have mentioned it to begin with.

I pointed out several misleading statements on BOSE’s website. There is a bloody good reason why BOSE don’t post measurements of their products and why they sue anyone that does for using unproven measuring techniques (despite every other speaker manufacturer on the planet agreeing with them) and that’s because they DON’T PLAY LOW’s, they DON’T PLAY CLEAR and they DON’T PLAY HIGH!

One wonders with YOUR insistence that BOSE somehow has products that aren’t a total ripoff, when everyone in the industry that doesn’t work for BOSE knows they don’t, which company YOU work for. Solid products? Untreated 2” manilla hemp cones? Frequency response that misses almost 50% of what the average person can hear? Good engineering your say? Solid products? Please, pull the other leg, it’s got bells on! You must take people here as common fools.

We have a very low failure rate with Bose products, and a very few unhappy customers. How about this, we have a higher failure rate with Runco than we do Bose.

I will ask again, not sure why but here goes:

Show me a 5.1 system (with in-wall AND on-wall options, in addition it in-floor sub options), with a receiver, AM/FM tuner, DVD player, a self-calibration system (similar to audyessy), a hard drive, an RF remote, and the ability to control 15 different zones of music (2 different sources). And show me all of that with the aesthetics of the Bose system, and that costs no more than $2000.

Obviously that isnt important to you. But believe it or not, you arent the only consumer on earth. And the people who do need this type of system are not "common fools"

Flexing your system "muscle", or justifying the flexing. Not sure which is funnier.

"deep" is still subjective.

You can have the last word, I am done.

The best part about roughly 75% of this thread is that none of you have heard, worked with, or used Bose products. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Woody

The best part about roughly 75% of this thread is that none of you have heard, worked with, or used Bose products. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

Talk about irony. You need to take your comedy routine on the road!

[Beta Man]

I was saying that this thread, would lead people, who would otherwise simply "blind buy" a bose system, to do some comparative listening.......

[dobyblue]

Well, this one might not, but the other one should

[cpgator]

Originally Posted by Woody

Show me a 5.1 system (with in-wall AND on-wall options, in addition it in-floor sub options), with a receiver, AM/FM tuner, DVD player, a self-calibration system (similar to audyessy), a hard drive, an RF remote, and the ability to control 15 different zones of music (2 different sources). And show me all of that with the aesthetics of the Bose system, and that costs no more than $2000.

Obviously that isnt important to you. But believe it or not, you arent the only consumer on earth. And the people who do need this type of system are not "common fools"

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but you can easily put together a system that will meet most those needs (except maybe the HD and diff zones) for $2000.

Now while this other system might not be able to control 15 zones, it will produce better sound, have a more complete frequency range, support HDMI and the latest audio codecs, better upscaling, more power, etc.

Now if controlling 15 separate zones is more important to you then the other things I mentioned, then Bose would be your best choice.

Meant to add - Monster cables are extremely overpriced and should always be avoided, and I have no idea why there is so much love on this site (and only this site) for Klipsch. I would guess because this site is more geared to those just getting into AV (younger crowd) as compared to more dedicate AV sites.

[WickyWoo]

I believe the bottom line in this is simple

Woody believes that Bose has a place in home theater because he either makes a gigantic margin on them, or gets a gigantic commission check from them from someone else who markes the big margin. I know when my brother worked for Sears, the bounty was about $4-500 on a $2000 Bose system compared to maybe $60-70 on a $1500 computer.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

I believe the bottom line in this is simple

Woody believes that Bose has a place in home theater because he either makes a gigantic margin on them, or gets a gigantic commission check from them from someone else who markes the big margin. I know when my brother worked for Sears, the bounty was about $4-500 on a $2000 Bose system compared to maybe $60-70 on a $1500 computer.

I believe you shouldnt speak of something you know nothing about.

I make the same on all products I sell.

Any questions?

[Woody]

Originally Posted by cpgator

Not sure if this has been answered yet, but you can easily put together a system that will meet most those needs (except maybe the HD and diff zones) for $2000.

Now while this other system might not be able to control 15 zones, it will produce better sound, have a more complete frequency range, support HDMI and the latest audio codecs, better upscaling, more power, etc.

Now if controlling 15 separate zones is more important to you then the other things I mentioned, then Bose would be your best choice.

Meant to add - Monster cables are extremely overpriced and should always be avoided, and I have no idea why there is so much love on this site (and only this site) for Klipsch. I would guess because this site is more geared to those just getting into AV (younger crowd) as compared to more dedicate AV sites.

Exactly my point. The uses are there for the product, they arent numerous, but they are there.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack

Wow, the only thing worse than a know-it-all is a self-proclaimed "audiophile" who thinks that Bose has a legitimate place in the home theatre industry....

If Bose were only marketed solely as a simple to use, all in one system then I MIGHT give them some credit. Instead, they try to make people think that they sell quality sound systems that are the pinnacle of home audio.

Never said I was an "audiophile".

Bose ABSOLUTELY has a place in the home theater industry. Because it is not with you doesnt mean it doesnt belong. FYI, if it had NO place it wouldnt be here.

What would you suggest? Would you prefer Bose says "We are average AND expensive!"? It's called marketing.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Now you're just talking out your ass, so please, be done with it and move on.
One thing is for sure, I've never heard frequencies between 200Hz and 280Hz or above 13kHz from the BOSE systems I have heard, worked with and used.

You sell BOSE products, so whatever helps you sleep at night.

I sell many more products than Bose.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Hear, hear! True dat.

Anyone that can look at Sound and Vision's frequency response of the Acoustimass module and still think it's in any way, shape or form worthy of its price tag or reputation is pushing something.

No response from 200Hz to 280Hz to speak of.

Zoinks.

I said Acoustimass was worth its price tag where?

Please just stop.