Is Lossless via RCA (PCM) worse than via HDMI (TrueHD/DTS MA)

[oldtech]

Is there any actual sound degradation when sending 7.1 channels of sound (PCM) through 8 analog cables versus 7.1 channels of sound through 1 digital cable?

thanks

[SkillzthatKillz]

some would argue that using analog cables like youre suggesting actually gives better sound quality. whats your setup like?

[gearyt]

Depending on your set-up
It may be "different", analog adds character
digital is true to the source

[rlf3911]

Should be zero difference.

[oldtech]

thanks for the quick responses.

I currently have a Denon AVR-2807 (no HD decoding) and just bought a Panasonic DMP-BD35.

I am considering returning the BD35 and going to the BD55 (for the 7.1 analog outputs). But I was curious if I was losing something in terms of sound quality by not have a digital transmission of sound. (in other words, keep the BD35 and go to a HD decoding A/V receiver - more expensive option).

thanks again

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by oldtech

thanks for the quick responses.

I currently have a Denon AVR-2807 (no HD decoding) and just bought a Panasonic DMP-BD35.

I am considering returning the BD35 and going to the BD55 (for the 7.1 analog outputs). But I was curious if I was losing something in terms of sound quality by not have a digital transmission of sound. (in other words, keep the BD35 and go to a HD decoding A/V receiver - more expensive option).

thanks again

Do you WANT an excuse to buy a new receiver ??

[oldtech]

Originally Posted by gearyt

Do you WANT an excuse to buy a new receiver ??

Not really, just trying to get some insight into the technical details of analog vs digital. It sounds like I need to go ahead an return my BD35 and get a BD55.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by oldtech

Is there any actual sound degradation when sending 7.1 channels of sound (PCM) through 8 analog cables versus 7.1 channels of sound through 1 digital cable?

thanks

It depends on the DACs in the player v. DACs in the receiver, if the receiver stays in the analog realm.

There will be inevitably some noise introduced in the analog patch. And if the receiver pushes it back into the digital realm for internal processing then you've introduced three steps causing losses (patch + ADC + DAC).

Gary

[Woody]

99% of the time I would recommend receiver/pre decoding. In your case, it is cheaper to get a 550 than a new receiver.

[Big Daddy]

When a disc player is connected to a receiver with multi-channel analog cables, the player must perform digital to analog decoding and send the analog signal to the receiver/pre-pro. In this case, you need to pay attention to two issues:

1. As a few people mentioned before, it all depends on whether the player or the receiver/Pre-pro has better Digital to Analog circuits. I don't believe many of us on this forum have the equipment or the scientific knowledge to objectively test the quality of D/A chips.
2. When a disc player is connected to a receiver with multi-channel analog cables, the calibration and bass management adjustments such as speaker sizes and channel levels should be done in the player's setup menus or the receiver must have bass management for the 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 ANALOG inputs. If the player lacks calibration adjustments or the receiver cannot perform adjustments for analog inputs, bass management cannot be performed.

[oldtech]

thanks very much to all..

I am guessing the BD55 (what I will be switching to) has a decent 7.1 channel setup menu. The denon AVR-2807 has a bass management setup for analog inputs, as you had mentioned.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

When a disc player is connected to a receiver with multi-channel analog cables, the player must perform digital to analog decoding and send the analog signal to the receiver/pre-pro. In this case, you need to pay attention to two issues:

1. As a few people mentioned before, it all depends on whether the player or the receiver/Pre-pro has better Digital to Analog circuits. I don't believe many of us on this forum have the equipment or the scientific knowledge to objectively test the quality of D/A chips.
2. When a disc player is connected to a receiver with multi-channel analog cables, the calibration and bass management adjustments such as speaker sizes and channel levels should be done in the player's setup menus or the receiver must have bass management for the 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 ANALOG inputs. If the player lacks calibration adjustments or the receiver cannot perform adjustments for analog inputs, bass management cannot be performed.

[mr peepers]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=72101&page=2

take a look at this thread.

i abandoned the debate between sir terrance and myself because frankly, what he was trying to say in the overall scheme of things was ridiculous to me, and i grew very tired of it and his claims.

[Driver_King]

I think when possible, you should go for HDMI over 7.1 analog due to the nature of analog cables such... If you have an older receiver that you just absolutely can't get rid of yet, then analog is a good choice.

[CasualKiller]

A lot of the high end companies express concern over HDMI's jitter issues as per:

The performance of any digital audio system depends on accurate clocking. Any errors in clock accuracy are measured as jitter - the higher the jitter the less accurate the signal and, typically, the poorer the resulting sound quality. Using current implementations, HDMI audio appears to have a relatively poor jitter performance meaning that, although mainstream consumers will find the resulting sound quality rather good, it is unlikely to satisfy audiophiles.

Lets go back to basics and realize that HDMI was never created to improve signal quality, it's purpose was to implement HDCP.

So lets assume you have an Onkyo, the best audio you're going to get is through HDMI. Multichannel audio is more of a feature to them and not a focus point.

A higher end receiver like an Arcam , Meridian or Krell etc is designed for the optimal use of its multichannel inputs and utilize higher grade DACs. In the case of these types of setups the audio is going to be sooo much better than an HDMI connection.

[oldtech]

Multichannel inputs (analog) on a receiver would mean that the D to A conversion has already been done? How do the receivers top end DACs help here? In that scenario wouldn't a digital input to the receiver would yield the better sound

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

A lot of the high end companies express

A higher end receiver like an Arcam , Meridian or Krell etc is designed for the optimal use of its multichannel inputs and utilize higher grade DACs. In the case of these types of setups the audio is going to be sooo much better than an HDMI connection.

[CasualKiller]

Originally Posted by oldtech

Multichannel inputs (analog) on a receiver would mean that the D to A conversion has already been done? How do the receivers top end DACs help here? In that scenario wouldn't a digital input to the receiver would yield the better sound

Sorry DAC was not the correct term, processors (amplifiers?) is what I probably should have said (it was late).

[SkillzthatKillz]

what other receivers are you thinking about buying to replace your denon?

[CasualKiller]

Of course after I posted I remembered this: (PDF)

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/AV600-brochure-web.pdf

But I really don't have 5000.00 to blow on a receiver

[prerich]

I do BD both ways, through hdmi from my LG-BH200 and through my HTPC from its analog outs. The LG is real good (I get to see my trueHD and DTS-HD MA lights on my Yamaha), but when compared to my HTPC - dog gone it, it seems to be a bit more dynamic ! I'm bitstreaming from my LG so the receiver does the processing - My PC does the processing and sends the converted analog to my receiver....no conversion back to digital later - any way you slice it - it all will go back to analog because that's the way humans hear. (My PC is set to convert any digital signal to 24bit/192khz before it leaves the analog outs (if it receives a 16bit/48khz signal - Vista will upconvert it to 24bit/192khz before it leaves the PC) whether this helps or not I don't know - but the sound from the PC is very,very pleasing (as is the sound from the LG - but I would have to give the prize to the PC) and yes, all of my connections and settings in the LG are correct

[oldtech]

I am thinking about a Denon 2309ci or 2808ci.
but haven't done much more research.

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

what other receivers are you thinking about buying to replace your denon?