Lionsgate Goes BD-50 with 'Descent'

[marzetta7]

Lionsgate Goes BD-50 with 'Descent'

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...th_Descent/289

Lionsgate has become the latest studio to jump on the BD-50 bandwagon, announcing their first 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray release with 'The Descent.'

As announced early last week, the cult horror flick will hit Blu-ray on December 26 -- just in time for Christmas, of course -- and day-and-date with the DVD release.

Tech specs include the film's 99-minute Unrated Cut presented in 1080p/MPEG-2 video, plus both an uncompressed PCM 6.1 surround and standard Dolby Digital 5.1 surround tracks.

With double the disc space versus a standard BD-25, single-layer disc, Lionsgate has also packed 'The Descent' with extras, including two audio commentaries, deleted and extended scenes, a documentary, multiple still galleries and trailers.

And in a first for the Blu-ray format, 'The Descent' will also boast exclusive HD content in the form of a new picture-in-picture interactive commentary, which promises to be similar to the "In-Movie Experience" feature currently popular on HD DVD titles.

Lionsgate has set a $39.95 list price for the Blu-ray release.

The real reason for the postponement of Lionsgate releases...

[JTK]

Not even a full two months ago, I couldn't escape the FUD and trolling of "BD50 is VAPORWARE!!!"



Kind of funny how "vaporware" is starting to show up all over the place, even before Christmas, isn't it?

It's becoming a mantra, but here we go again:

"Another nail in the coffin of HD-DVD."

[GoldenRedux]

It was only vapourware to the blind. How anyone could delude themselves into believing that BD-50 would never arrive is beyond me. I suppose they were helped along by the total lies being spread by a certain MS lackey.

[paulca]

What will be different with a disc that is bd-50 like Click will be when it is released tomorrow? Does it mean that the disc will be able to hold more information?

[Jeff®]

Originally Posted by paulca

What will be different with a disc that is bd-50 like Click will be when it is released tomorrow? Does it mean that the disc will be able to hold more information?

Twice as much.

[paulca]

Could a bd-50 disc hold a 6 hour movie? or what is the length in hours?

[theknub]

hard to state things as just hours. it depends really on bitrates and compression

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by paulca

Could a bd-50 disc hold a 6 hour movie? or what is the length in hours?

VERY ROUGHLY SPEAKING...

The most recent VC-1 or AVC based movies of any quality are running at over 20 Mbps for the combination of both video and sound for the feature film itself for 1080p recordings. (In another post I'd done the math on a few back a month or so ago and got an average of 22 Mbps.)

If we assume the round number of 20 Mbps then that's roughly 9 GB per hour.

At 50 GB that's approximately 5.5 hours.

However, as said above it is extremely dependent upon bitrates -- which is directly dependent upon quality (both video and audio) desired and the original media you are trying to display.

[Applefiend]

Lionsgate really need to do something, their Blue Rays are the worst quality of all the studios, 50GB of MPEG2(We presume) could really fix that up.

Good oh. Is the movie any good?

[shido]

Don't forget that the bitrates for the video are most likely variable, meaning that they don't waste bits on scenes without too much motion. That'll allow them to fit longer movies too.

Anyway, this disk sounds pretty good. 50gb BD for a 99 min movie? Either there's a ton of extras, or the bitrate is gonna be maxed out. Though I suppose that interactive commentary probably'll take up quite a bit of the space, since that's in HD too.

[WriteSimply]

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

So a BD-50 would be perfect for it, you could even increase the bitrate. How I would love LOTR:Trilogy, The Matrix Trilogy, and Star Wars Trilogy (original) on BD.

[shamus]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

Fuad, How much for 7.1????

[WriteSimply]

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 21.84 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = [b]21.84 GB[/]b

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

Thanks for doing the maths.

[Josh]

I believe that LOTR is mastered in 6.1, so I don't think a 7.1 audio track would be necessary (or useful).

[ProvenFlipper]

With that math, all of them are killers for HD-DVD... After formatting, I'm sure the discs wouldn't be able to hold the movie, menu system, a Legacy DD soundtrack, subtitles, and other languages.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = [b]21.84 GB[/]b

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

Black and white math and pesky facts like these can't lie, folks.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by JTK

Black and white math and pesky facts like these can't lie, folks.

If the folks at Microsoft can get the average video rate to go below 12.6Mbps (and not just at 12.6Mpbs), then LOTR EE might just be do-able. Of course, if they do high bitrate DD+ 6.1 then it's certainly doable.

DTS HDMA uses more space than TrueHD but it saves space in terms of providing direct support for legacy DTS systems (1.5Mbps DTS that DVDs can handle right now). Using TrueHD on HD-DVD for lossless is the best option for that side of the camp, while HDMA is doable for BD. Either way, both audio codecs are lossless.

Of course, all of the figures above are just on the movies. No commentary tracks that was on the DVD plus the menu systems. Hopefully when LOTR gets released, they'll give you the option of watching the EE version with or without the intermission (like the limited edition DVD could do).


fuad

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by CHGwin

Hello Gang ! We do not need to be rocket scientists to figure out that movies encoded using MPEG-2 at 37.5 Mbit/s will be very close to D5 master quality. It has been demonstrated years ago and reported in various technical publications. The real questions are - other things being equal - 1) what is the minimum bit rate for MPEG-2 to match the D5 master quality and 2) what is this number for VC-1 and AVC/H.264. The very independent European Broadcasting Unit ( EBU ) thinks that AVC/H.264 is twice more efficient than MPEG-2 based on hundreds of tests and VC-1 is about the same efficiency as AVC/H.264

EBU reference:
http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/trev_home.html


If 37.5 mbs mpeg-2 is very close to D5 master quality, and EBU said AVC was twice as efficient, you need about 14 mbs AVC for LOR (18.75 mbs x 0.75), like WriteSimply used. I myself would feel more at ease with at least 20 mbs (about a dB and a half more) since I sit close to a movie screen!

So I made my own Superbit version of WriteSimply's table :



TrueHD 6.1 Superbit
FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 mbs = 6.3 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 12,480 = 31.2 gB
Total film: 37.5 gB

TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 mbs = 6.5 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 12,840 = 32.1 gB
Total film: 38.6 gB

ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 mbs = 7.6 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 15,000 = 37.5 gB
Total film: 45.1 gB

Kinda like Beethoven's 9th for CD


Oh , I forgot, we're actually talking about Descent in BD-50!

D 99 mins x 60 secs = 5,940 secs
Sound in LPCM (24/48 in 5.1?) - 5,940 x 5.9 mbs = 4.4 gB
Video in MPEG-2 @ 37.5 mbs x 5,940 = 27.8 gB
Total film: 32.2 gB