Lionsgate Goes BD-50 with 'Descent'

[WriteSimply]

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

So a BD-50 would be perfect for it, you could even increase the bitrate. How I would love LOTR:Trilogy, The Matrix Trilogy, and Star Wars Trilogy (original) on BD.

[shamus]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

I did the calculations for LOTR:ROTK EE using AVC 12.6Mbps and TrueHD 6.1 24/48. The four-hour movie alone is 33GB.


fuad

Fuad, How much for 7.1????

[WriteSimply]

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 21.84 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = [b]21.84 GB[/]b

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

Thanks for doing the maths.

[Josh]

I believe that LOTR is mastered in 6.1, so I don't think a 7.1 audio track would be necessary (or useful).

[ProvenFlipper]

With that math, all of them are killers for HD-DVD... After formatting, I'm sure the discs wouldn't be able to hold the movie, menu system, a Legacy DD soundtrack, subtitles, and other languages.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

TrueHD 6.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.28 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 6.46 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.55 GB


TrueHD 7.1
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12480 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.33 GB

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 12840 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 7.54 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24bit/48kHz at 7.1) - 15000 x 4.7 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 8.81 GB

Video at 14 Mbps
LOTR FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12480 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12480 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = [b]21.84 GB[/]b

LOTR TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12840 secs
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 12840 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 22.47 GB

LOTR ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000
Video in VC-1 14 Mbps (average) - 15000 x 14 Mbps Average bitrate / 8 bits = 26.25 GB

Audio + Video
LOTR FOTR (video at 21.84 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 21.84 + 6.28 = 28.12 GB
using TrueHD 7.1 = 21.84 + 7.33 = 29.17 GB

LOTR TT(video at 22.47 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 22.47 + 6.46 = 28.93 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 22.47 + 7.54 = 30.01 GB

LOTR ROTK (video at 26.25 GB) using TrueHD 6.1 = 26.25 + 7.55 = 33.8 GB
Using TrueHD 7.1 = 26.25 + 8.81 = 35.06 GB

For the LOTR EE, ROTK is the killer for HD-DVD.


fuad

Black and white math and pesky facts like these can't lie, folks.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by JTK

Black and white math and pesky facts like these can't lie, folks.

If the folks at Microsoft can get the average video rate to go below 12.6Mbps (and not just at 12.6Mpbs), then LOTR EE might just be do-able. Of course, if they do high bitrate DD+ 6.1 then it's certainly doable.

DTS HDMA uses more space than TrueHD but it saves space in terms of providing direct support for legacy DTS systems (1.5Mbps DTS that DVDs can handle right now). Using TrueHD on HD-DVD for lossless is the best option for that side of the camp, while HDMA is doable for BD. Either way, both audio codecs are lossless.

Of course, all of the figures above are just on the movies. No commentary tracks that was on the DVD plus the menu systems. Hopefully when LOTR gets released, they'll give you the option of watching the EE version with or without the intermission (like the limited edition DVD could do).


fuad

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by CHGwin

Hello Gang ! We do not need to be rocket scientists to figure out that movies encoded using MPEG-2 at 37.5 Mbit/s will be very close to D5 master quality. It has been demonstrated years ago and reported in various technical publications. The real questions are - other things being equal - 1) what is the minimum bit rate for MPEG-2 to match the D5 master quality and 2) what is this number for VC-1 and AVC/H.264. The very independent European Broadcasting Unit ( EBU ) thinks that AVC/H.264 is twice more efficient than MPEG-2 based on hundreds of tests and VC-1 is about the same efficiency as AVC/H.264

EBU reference:
http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/trev_home.html


If 37.5 mbs mpeg-2 is very close to D5 master quality, and EBU said AVC was twice as efficient, you need about 14 mbs AVC for LOR (18.75 mbs x 0.75), like WriteSimply used. I myself would feel more at ease with at least 20 mbs (about a dB and a half more) since I sit close to a movie screen!

So I made my own Superbit version of WriteSimply's table :



TrueHD 6.1 Superbit
FOTR 208 mins x 60 secs = 12,480 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 12480 x 4.025 mbs = 6.3 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 12,480 = 31.2 gB
Total film: 37.5 gB

TT 214 mins x 60 secs = 12,840 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 12840 x 4.025 mbs = 6.5 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 12,840 = 32.1 gB
Total film: 38.6 gB

ROTK 250 mins x 60 secs = 15000 secs
Sound in TrueHD (24/48 in 6.1) - 15000 x 4.025 mbs = 7.6 gB
Video in AVC @ 20 mbs x 15,000 = 37.5 gB
Total film: 45.1 gB

Kinda like Beethoven's 9th for CD


Oh , I forgot, we're actually talking about Descent in BD-50!

D 99 mins x 60 secs = 5,940 secs
Sound in LPCM (24/48 in 5.1?) - 5,940 x 5.9 mbs = 4.4 gB
Video in MPEG-2 @ 37.5 mbs x 5,940 = 27.8 gB
Total film: 32.2 gB

[hmurchison]

Return of the King would be the toughest movie to do right on HD DVD. I think the first thing you do is cut the TrueHD down to 20/48. If Batman Begins can be reference level at 13.x Mbps then some serious tweaking will yield appreciable results for the LotR series as well IMO.

50GB definitely gives the studio some breathing room though. It'll be interesting to see the reviews and how they stack up 50GB vs 30GB. Perhaps it's time to break out the Triple Layer deep threat

[thebluemax]

Does anyone else hate this transfer PQ. The dark cave scenes are filled with noise(White speckles) that ruin an excellent movie. Can't these artifacts be removed?

[Pelican170]

The movie is good. I just dont really understand the ending much but i wont talk about it cuz it will ruin it somewhat. I just hope they fix some of the "Noise" in the new release version. The bluray i have has a bunch of it, especially in the dark scenes.

[owa]

I think it's AVC and that is what it shows up as on my PS3 (with 2.40 firmware). I think the underground experience was the only part that was supposed to be mpeg-2, if I recall correctly.