[URGENT] Steelbook damage - need help in a PayPal dispute

[xage]

Originally Posted by roach_rch

Are you sure? What if, for example, the disc has been heavily scratched? I wouldn't know it until I opened it.

but the commonsense or logical argument there is that you are not blind to notice the "abnormal physical looks of the packaging" . Raising another argument (disc being scratched) will add problems and lessen your justification.

As what American Baron state - your dispute is the damaged packaging. It doesnt make sense if your rebuttal is the disc.

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by American Baron

Then your Dispute would be about the Disk, right? Opening the Steel would have been justified. Your Dispute is for the "Shell" with outer Damage. There was absolutely no reason to open it, sorry.

I don't want to create any additional (and fictional) problems, the disc was only an example. I'm just surprised by the importance of my opening the Steel act, because I don't think it would have been a problem in Poland. I tried to repair it, so then no dispute would be needed, it was not possible so I created one. Oh well, I guess I will call PayPal tomorrow and try to work it out...

[American Baron]

Originally Posted by roach_rch

I don't want to create any additional (and fictional) problems, the disc was only an example. I'm just surprised by the importance of my opening the Steel act, because I don't think it would have been a problem in Poland. I tried to repair it, so then no dispute would be needed, it was not possible so I created one. Oh well, I guess I will call PayPal tomorrow and try to work it out...

Think of it this way: Imagine you had purchased this from a Store and didn't notice the Damage until you got home. You open the Steel and then take it back for a refund. Would the store give you a refund when the Steel had been opened? Remember, we are talking about outer damage and not the Disk. Stores in Germany would definitely NOT accept a return of open merchandise for that type of reason.

I really do wish you luck, but I know how the german system works and I'm simply afraid you're SOL on this one.

[TZona]

Originally Posted by roach_rch

Actually I don't think it has to necessarily be so, because it was the seller who encouraged me to open it and to try to fix it. .

he may have wanted you to open it to protect himself. i also think that you opening it may have killed your claim. it would have been best to contact the seller, then if he did nothing contact paypal. good luck

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by American Baron

Think of it this way: Imagine you had purchased this from a Store and didn't notice the Damage until you got home. You open the Steel and then take it back for a refund. Would the store give you a refund when the Steel had been opened? Remember, we are talking about outer damage and not the Disk. Stores in Germany would definitely NOT accept a return of open merchandise for that type of reason.

I really do wish you luck, but I know how the german system works and I'm simply afraid you're SOL on this one.

The situation is a little different, because the first thing I noticed after recieving the package was the dent, and I shot the photos and emailed the seller a couple of times right after. Then there was this long arguing about it, not wanting to refund because the post destroyed it, not the seller, etc, etc. And then he told me to try to fix it and I didn't think of it as such a bad idea at the time. Now that I look at it I guess it really might be me who killed the case, but I still try to ask for help in the local PayPal departament.

[American Baron]

Originally Posted by roach_rch

The situation is a little different, because the first thing I noticed after recieving the package was the dent, and I shot the photos and emailed the seller a couple of times right after. Then there was this long arguing about it, not wanting to refund because the post destroyed it, not the seller, etc, etc. And then he told me to try to fix it and I didn't think of it as such a bad idea at the time. Now that I look at it I guess it really might be me who killed the case, but I still try to ask for help in the local PayPal departament.

In all the discussion here I forgot about your photos of the damaged steel still sealed

Do the following:

- Print out your Photos
- Take the pics and the steel (if possible also the foiled wrapping) to your local Media Dealer and have them issue you a confirmation of the damage and the probability that the Damage was caused during transit).
- Fax the confirmation and your Photos to PayPal. I also think you can scan and upload to paypal.

Having those Photos just may be your savior here.....

[bigjee]

Hi Roach,

Sorry to see your steelbook like this.
I'm not sure if this will help but see if you can try this:


1. Did you buy this off eBay?
If so was shipping insurance offered in the listing?
Did the seller ship with insurance of any sort so that you can claim it through the postal service.

Did the auction state that insurance was included in the shipping and handling charges?

2) does the seller have more feedback than you on ebay?
If he has less than you can reason with ebay/paypal saying that you have had countless transactions and that you are a worthy ebayer/paypal user.

3) Have you tried asking for a partial refund from the seller?

4) Did you explicitly tell the seller to ship it in a box in this transaction?

5) Was the parcel visibly damaged when you accepted shipment of it?
If so then the seller must take responsibility of telling you to open it.

6) I find it hard that a seller that has sold several steelbooks (as you have said) would ship in a bubble mailer as opposed to a cardboard box.

Is there something I'm missing here?

7) you can as a last resort try to resell the steelbook with all its defects on ebay perhaps. This is of course when all else has failed and there is no other way of getting your money back.

[TM2-Megatron]

This kind of thing is always why I contact on eBay member directly if their auction doesn't state how a potentially delicate item may be shipped. If the seller indicates they don't use a box when I think it might be more appropriate, I'll usually ask if they will ship in a box for a bit more in shipping. If not, I try to find the item elsewhere.

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by bigjee

Hi Roach,

Sorry to see your steelbook like this.
I'm not sure if this will help but see if you can try this:


1. Did you buy this off eBay?
If so was shipping insurance offered in the listing?
Did the seller ship with insurance of any sort so that you can claim it through the postal service.
Did the auction state that insurance was included in the shipping and handling charges?

No, standard shipping was the only option available and I didn't argue about it.

Originally Posted by bigjee

2) does the seller have more feedback than you on ebay?
If he has less than you can reason with ebay/paypal saying that you have had countless transactions and that you are a worthy ebayer/paypal user.

I have more feedback, however he doesn't have any negative comments. Neither do I.

Originally Posted by bigjee

3) Have you tried asking for a partial refund from the seller?

No, didn't think about it since I don't even know how to divide the cost.

Originally Posted by bigjee

4) Did you explicitly tell the seller to ship it in a box in this transaction?

No conversation was made before recieving the package. I just won, got the invoice and payed.

Originally Posted by bigjee

5) Was the parcel visibly damaged when you accepted shipment of it?
If so then the seller must take responsibility of telling you to open it.

I don't think I understand the question so I'll answer the best I can - the bubble foil envelope was no more damaged than any envelope I recieve, but no tears, stains or anything. Sealed Steelbook looked just as the photos depict. I send photos to the seller, offered sending it back and asked for a refund. He refused a couple of times. I told him I wanted to keep it sealed as it seems valuable due to it's printing error, and he responded it's not so rare in the Germany and I shouldn't hesitate to open it and try to repair it if possible. So I did.

Originally Posted by bigjee

6) I find it hard that a seller that has sold several steelbooks (as you have said) would ship in a bubble mailer as opposed to a cardboard box.

Is there something I'm missing here?

I have no possibility to verify that, I just repeat what he wrote me.

Originally Posted by bigjee

7) you can as a last resort try to resell the steelbook with all its defects on ebay perhaps. This is of course when all else has failed and there is no other way of getting your money back.

That's what I intend to do if I will loose the PayPal dispute. I will try the rubber hammer then. Maybe I will be able to get it straight again, but I don't consider that as 'highly probable'...

[LeAnn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjee
5) Was the parcel visibly damaged when you accepted shipment of it?
If so then the seller must take responsibility of telling you to open it.

I don't think I understand the question so I'll answer the best I can - the bubble foil envelope was no more damaged than any envelope I recieve, but no tears, stains or anything. Sealed Steelbook looked just as the photos depict. I send photos to the seller, offered sending it back and asked for a refund. He refused a couple of times. I told him I wanted to keep it sealed as it seems valuable due to it's printing error, and he responded it's not so rare in the Germany and I shouldn't hesitate to open it and try to repair it if possible. So I did.


I think it is rather odd, that the package was undamaged, the steel looked like the photos but was very damaged. If this is so, then is it possible he lied and said there was no damage?

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by LeAnn

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjee
5) Was the parcel visibly damaged when you accepted shipment of it?
If so then the seller must take responsibility of telling you to open it.

I don't think I understand the question so I'll answer the best I can - the bubble foil envelope was no more damaged than any envelope I recieve, but no tears, stains or anything. Sealed Steelbook looked just as the photos depict. I send photos to the seller, offered sending it back and asked for a refund. He refused a couple of times. I told him I wanted to keep it sealed as it seems valuable due to it's printing error, and he responded it's not so rare in the Germany and I shouldn't hesitate to open it and try to repair it if possible. So I did.


I think it is rather odd, that the package was undamaged, the steel looked like the photos but was very damaged. If this is so, then is it possible he lied and said there was no damage?

I'd say it is more likely that the package was stepped on, or something like that. The envelope was just creased, but they all are, so it didn't made me suspect anything. The auction picture looked like a real one, so I don't think a damaged copy was sent to me intentionally. Unless there were more, but there is no way to investigate that.

[apsmith21]

Originally Posted by LeAnn

I think it is rather odd, that the package was undamaged, the steel looked like the photos but was very damaged. If this is so, then is it possible he lied and said there was no damage?

Maybe...but if you step on a bubble mailer....does it not bounce back?

(If there's no one to see it, I'm assuming it works like the tree in the forest).

[LeAnn]

bounce back with a shoe print on it...

I have never had an issue with me getting a damaged product right out of the box and the seller being less than cordial.

I just found it odd that when you proved the product was damaged with no damage to the packaging that the seller would repeatedly refuse to take the item back.

[apsmith21]

Originally Posted by LeAnn

bounce back with a shoe print on it...

lol

[Blahblehblah]

Originally Posted by roach_rch

I do have the name and eBay nickname, but I wouldn't like to publish it. This person seems real nice, and definitely had good deeds - he sells a lot of SBs, collects them, and packed the item well - into 2 coats of bubble foil, which would be sufficient in most of the cases, but in this particular one it didn't. It was mostly bad luck, but it wouldn't happen if the Steel was packed not into bubble foil, but into a cardboard box. And that's my case here.

I do have a proof of the conversation, because it was all done by the eBay/PayPal e-mail service. I will not get a refund from the postal service, because the package was neither insured nor tracked...

Its kinda ironic how you mention in your first thread that the seller was stubborn (didn't want to resolve it between just the 2 of you and thus you had to resort to getting a refund via paypal) and yet you defend him in the above post. Either way, i was not saying he is a bad person per say; however, if his method of shipping something like John Rambo (or any other SB for that matter) is via bubble mail and not a cardboard box, i DEFINITELY would want to avoid this seller and thus i was requesting for his username on ebay. I respect the fact you dont want to publicize his name, if you want to PM me his/her name, i would appreciate that. Im sure you would appreciate this similar case not to happen to any other member here as well It is probably just a string of bad luck but i don't wanna take that chance especially with how much i can imagine you spent on this item.

Originally Posted by TZona

he may have wanted you to open it to protect himself. i also think that you opening it may have killed your claim. it would have been best to contact the seller, then if he did nothing contact paypal. good luck

Could be a possibility.. i don't understand why he would have told you to open the case if the outer appearance clearly looks damaged...

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by Blahblehblah

Its kinda ironic how you mention in your first thread that the seller was stubborn (didn't want to resolve it between just the 2 of you and thus you had to resort to getting a refund via paypal) and yet you defend him in the above post. Either way, i was not saying he is a bad person per say; however, if his method of shipping something like John Rambo (or any other SB for that matter) is via bubble mail and not a cardboard box, i DEFINITELY would want to avoid this seller and thus i was requesting for his username on ebay.

I don't know this person, so cannot determine if he's good or bad, but from his mails I can read that he had good intentions, etc. I cannot tell if it's true or not, but it seems like the truth. Plus I have this thing of not assuming anyone bad from the beginning, which might me my weakness in this case. Nevertheless, my assumption is - he ment good, I don't blame him. It turned out bad - he's to blame, hence the dispute. But I won't be calling him names and all because of that, cause I understand can feel not guilty, because of the reasons he's given and considers as the righteous ones.

Originally Posted by Blahblehblah

I respect the fact you dont want to publicize his name, if you want to PM me his/her name, i would appreciate that. Im sure you would appreciate this similar case not to happen to any other member here as well It is probably just a string of bad luck but i don't wanna take that chance especially with how much i can imagine you spent on this item.

Since you put it this way I will send you the eBay username via PM.

Originally Posted by Blahblehblah

Could be a possibility.. i don't understand why he would have told you to open the case if the outer appearance clearly looks damaged...

Because I told him that maaaaaybeeeeeee it could be pushed back from the inside, but I don't want to do it since my initial intention was to keep this one sealed. But then he assured me it's not as rare as people think, etc., so I decided to open it and try fixing it.

[jw]

Originally Posted by American Baron

Hey Roach,

yea, that steel is definitely toasted. I don't think Jeremy will be able to help you here, as PayPal will require a Testimony from a recognized organization or Retail Store and I doubt that a forum Moderator would fit. It doesn't need to be a Media Markt! It just needs to be a local store that deals with this type of merchandise (Steelbooks).

However, I think you may have screwed yourself by opening the Steel. You most definitely should have left it sealed.

Good Luck!!

AB

Hes right, you will lose. Good Luck!!

Movie is intact and thats what they will say.

As as a buyer and seller I would like to know the username as well so I can block and avoid them

[jw]

Originally Posted by LeAnn

bounce back with a shoe print on it...

I have never had an issue with me getting a damaged product right out of the box and the seller being less than cordial.

I just found it odd that when you proved the product was damaged with no damage to the packaging that the seller would repeatedly refuse to take the item back.

well if you buy anything via ebay and pay with paypal, just mail it back with tracking and once its deliverd its an automatic refund in full

[roach_rch]

Originally Posted by jwbbud

well if you buy anything via ebay and pay with paypal, just mail it back with tracking and once its deliverd its an automatic refund in full

I'm not quite sure it works that way in Europe. But it's just an assumption.

[bandapart]

I've been burnt on a steelbook sale where the seller placed the steelbook in a thin shipping envelope with a thin layer of tiny bubbles within the lining of the envelope.

The envelope looked fine, upon arrival, but the steelbook was crushed due to heavy parcels being placed on top of it.

Realize that parcels are not carried by hand from country to country, or cross country. They are co-mingled with heavy objects in containers and trucks with depths of up to seven feet or more.

In transit, your package will be buried by others of various weights, with the heaviest held out to be sorted manually. The United States Postal Service accepts packages up to seventy pounds. Your steelbooks will be placed among and under packages of weight from ounces to 10, 20, or more pounds.

Shipping steelbooks in sturdy cardboard boxes (double boxed being better) with proper packing, using bubble packing is ideal and essential to lessen the chances of damage.

I rarely purchase steelbooks from sellers I've never done business with, and hold my breath each time I do.