Denon 2500 . . . Help me with my rationale

[BStecke]

Ok, I've got a question for y'all.

Here's the situation. My wife is currently employed at Best Buy as a seasonal employee, but will most likely be forced to quit at the end of April. My dilemma is, I really want to get a standalone player for bitstreaming audio/DTS HDMA, but I'm really struggling with waiting for a 2.0 player to come out or just buying the Denon 2500 while my wife still has her discount.

My rationale is this. I have the PS3, and would still have the PS3 after I've purchased the Denon. The Denon I can get for about $620 and change. So, I would have the PS3 to handle any 2.0 features I may want to use (which I anticipate will be very few) and I would have the Denon player for presumably less than what I could get find a comparable 2.0 player for, since I would no longer have access to the discount. The BD-50 is also going to be coming out, maybe before she leaves in April, but I don't think the player quality will be as good as the Denon. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So . . . should I jump on the Denon, or just wait? I'm guessing that any Denon players coming out that are 2.0 are going to be at about that 1k price point or more. 600 is easily doable since I've got that $600 check coming from Uncle Sam, plus I'd hate to pay anywhere near MSRP just on principle.

Please, give me your thoughts. Also, any thoughts on the player itself are welcome . . . not a lot of reviews for it around here.

[Blu As Hell]

I think all the 2.0 stuff is cool and all, but I would rather have DTS-HDMA decoding over that sh*t anyday!!!!! Besides that's a 400 dollar discount.

[GORT]

I would say go for it but the money from uncle sam will not be mailed out till may 16th so if that is not a sticking point I say HELL YA

[BStecke]

I've got no problem throwing it on a credit card until I actually receive the money, so that's not an issue. I guess my concern is a 2.0 player coming out from Denon within the next 6-8 months that is around the same price ($600 @ retail) and quality that's 2.0.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by BStecke

Ok, I've got a question for y'all.

Here's the situation. My wife is currently employed at Best Buy as a seasonal employee, but will most likely be forced to quit at the end of April. My dilemma is, I really want to get a standalone player for bitstreaming audio/DTS HDMA, but I'm really struggling with waiting for a 2.0 player to come out or just buying the Denon 2500 while my wife still has her discount.

My rationale is this. I have the PS3, and would still have the PS3 after I've purchased the Denon. The Denon I can get for about $620 and change. So, I would have the PS3 to handle any 2.0 features I may want to use (which I anticipate will be very few) and I would have the Denon player for presumably less than what I could get find a comparable 2.0 player for, since I would no longer have access to the discount. The BD-50 is also going to be coming out, maybe before she leaves in April, but I don't think the player quality will be as good as the Denon. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So . . . should I jump on the Denon, or just wait? I'm guessing that any Denon players coming out that are 2.0 are going to be at about that 1k price point or more. 600 is easily doable since I've got that $600 check coming from Uncle Sam, plus I'd hate to pay anywhere near MSRP just on principle.

Please, give me your thoughts. Also, any thoughts on the player itself are welcome . . . not a lot of reviews for it around here.

The Uncle Sam check will not arrive until May. You can always buy a whole bunch at $600 and sell them on Ebay for $700.

[bootman]

The 2500 and the Panny BD-30 are based om the same Panasonic chipset.
Maybe you can pick one of these for cheap until the 2.0 Denons are out.

[Marcusarilius]

Originally Posted by Blu As Hell

I think all the 2.0 stuff is cool and all, but I would rather have DTS-HDMA decoding over that sh*t anyday!!!!! Besides that's a 400 dollar discount.

Forget the 2.0 in the equation. Worthless. DTS HDMA is critica and will be good for a couple years. In two years, you will have all of the Panny BD50 specs, bells and whistles in a player for $299.00.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by bootman

The 2500 and the Panny BD-30 are based om the same Panasonic chipset.
Maybe you can pick one of these for cheap until the 2.0 Denons are out.

Is it the same, or is it BASED ON the same thing?

I know Panasonic DVD players were based on a lot of the Denon stuff, but weren't quite the same, with the Denon's ringing in with higher quality (which, given the price, is obviously expected).

The other option is to get the BD50 when it comes out, which is hopefully before the end of April.

[Big Daddy]

Have you read the Denon threads on AVS Forum?

Denon 2500 Owners:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=882495

DenonJeff, Denon insider on AVS Forum: They discuss the Denon Blu Ray player versus Panasonic
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=986622

Denon Versus Panasonic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=985146

[chasarms]

A couple of thoughts:

If the PQ of the 50 is like that of the 30, there no reason at all to shy away from the Panasonic.

In terms of audio, if you are going to bitstream the audio, the D/A conversion is happening in the receiver, so, what possible advantage would the Denon offer in terms of audio?

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by chasarms

In terms of audio, if you are going to bitstream the audio, the D/A conversion is happening in the receiver, so, what possible advantage would the Denon offer in terms of audio?

Have to agree with this somewhat, unless you are simply a fan of the Denon build quality or esthetics, and the 2500 doesn't offer an advantage in DVD upconversion, either. Without 7.1 master audio, I agree that you are missing out on a lot, and unless you are looking to play interactive games or chat online while you watch movies, you aren't likely to miss much from 2.0.

I recently purchased the 3800 and am still evaluating it and deciding whether to keep it. My rationale in opting to do this rather than wait for a 2.0 player was based on two things. After I watch a movie, I rarely sit and take advantage of the extra features. If I do watch extras, it is usually at a different time. If I find that there are 2.0 features that I can't live without, I'll just get a BD drive for my PC.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by chasarms

In terms of audio, if you are going to bitstream the audio, the D/A conversion is happening in the receiver, so, what possible advantage would the Denon offer in terms of audio?

I have no interest in a player that decodes the audio internally . . . I want the bitstreaming. That's its advantage over the PS3.

After reading through those AVS threads, I think I'm leaning toward the BD-50 when it comes out. I've been pretty impressed with Denon in the past, so I guess it's kind of hard to get past the name.

[zepherman]

Originally Posted by BStecke

Is it the same, or is it BASED ON the same thing?

I know Panasonic DVD players were based on a lot of the Denon stuff, but weren't quite the same, with the Denon's ringing in with higher quality (which, given the price, is obviously expected).

The other option is to get the BD50 when it comes out, which is hopefully before the end of April.

At that price I say go for it! I own a 2500BTCI and I LOVE it! It loads fast, is whisper quiet, is flawless in bitstreaming audio, and the build quality is superb! From what I've been told (from Denon and dealers) is the 2500 is "based" on the BD30, but just because they share some things on the inside does not make them identical. I'm sure others will no doubt argue this, but with my experience with the 2500, I have only excellent things to say about it. And from what a Denon tech told me, a fix is on the way to correct the -5 LFE issue.

It's a beautifully made transport and I have no hesitation recommending it..



Seth

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by zepherman

At that price I say go for it! I own a 2500BTCI and I LOVE it! It loads fast, is whisper quiet, is flawless in bitstreaming audio, and the build quality is superb! From what I've been told (from Denon and dealers) is the 2500 is "based" on the BD30, but just because they share some things on the inside does not make them identical. I'm sure others will no doubt argue this, but with my experience with the 2500, I have only excellent things to say about it. And from what a Denon tech told me, a fix is on the way to correct the -5 LFE issue.

It's a beautifully made transport and I have no hesitation recommending it..



Seth

Can you give me a nutshell explanation of the LFE issue? I see it referenced a lot, but didn't see an actual explanation. Is it something that's really distracting?

[chasarms]

Originally Posted by BStecke

I have no interest in a player that decodes the audio internally . . . I want the bitstreaming. That's its advantage over the PS3.

After reading through those AVS threads, I think I'm leaning toward the BD-50 when it comes out. I've been pretty impressed with Denon in the past, so I guess it's kind of hard to get past the name.

I'd wager you'll be very happy with the Panasonic. The 2.0 is nice to have if only because it is the latest.

If I understand the LFE issue:

It relates to PCM output only. Specifically, if the player decodes the audio and outputs analog, the sub output is attenuted -5 db. I believe this also is an issue even if using a lossless PCM track via HDMI.

The LFE issue is non-existent with any other audio format.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by chasarms

If I understand the LFE issue:

It relates to PCM output only. Specifically, if the player decodes the audio and outputs analog, the sub output is attenuted -5 db. I believe this also is an issue even if using a lossless PCM track via HDMI.

The LFE issue is non-existent with any other audio format.

I believe that's correct. Since this player does not decode TrueHD/DTS HD MA to MPCM, the only effect is upon LPCM tracks. I don't believe the LFE issue affects bitstreamed TrueHD/DTS HD MA.

To put it more plainly, you'll experience -5db LFE using LPCM. You won't experience -5db LFE on bitstreamed TrueHD/DTS HD MA. In any case and as Seth pointed out, Denon has promised a fix for this.

[Woody]

I would do the Denon in a second if you get it at cost.

ESPECIALLY if you can use a PS3 for 2.0 content.

The 2500 is a tank.

[chasarms]

Originally Posted by RUR

. . . In any case and as Seth pointed out, Denon has promised a fix for this.

And, as we know, the Panasonic is already fixed.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by chasarms

And, as we know, the Panasonic is already fixed.

In fairness, it took Panasonic roughly 11 weeks after the release of the BD30 to release a fix (Player release Dec 1 vs. FW 1.6 release Feb 22 IIRC), and the 2500 has been released less than 4 weeks (Feb 23). I guess we'll see if Denon can respond faster than Panasonic.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by RUR

I believe that's correct. Since this player does not decode TrueHD/DTS HD MA to MPCM, the only effect is upon LPCM tracks. I don't believe the LFE issue affects bitstreamed TrueHD/DTS HD MA.

To put it more plainly, you'll experience -5db LFE using LPCM. You won't experience -5db LFE on bitstreamed TrueHD/DTS HD MA. In any case and as Seth pointed out, Denon has promised a fix for this.

This is exactly true, and the 3800 has the same issue, but it's a non-issue if in the player you can set all speakers to large and -5dB on all speakers except the sub, then let your AVR handle everything as it normally would. I believe you can do this in the 2500. I struggled with myself about waiting, but I lost the fight.