Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[octagon]

Originally Posted by MasturB

I think it's silly to criticize Padme for losing the will to live. Her would-be husband and father of her children turned into a monster. She didn't wanna believe Obi-Wan, and its' when Anakin doesn't deny any of his allegations that she realizes it's all true.

Her heartbreak legitimately killed her, and whatever life she had left in her body was used to push out the kids.

We're not criticizing Padme, we're criticizing whoever wrote that dreck.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by octagon

We're not criticizing Padme, we're criticizing whoever wrote that dreck.

I still think Sidious drained her lifeforce and blamed it on Anakin so Vader would be more powerful. I mean you can see the boner he gets when everything starts exploding around Vader when he stands up off the gurney.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by octagon

She had a gun in her hand when we met her. From the very beginning Leia wasn't a traditional 'some day my prince will come' damsel in distress kinda princess.

Which is one of the reasons she was beloved by millions.

Hundreds of millions. Hell, billions, maybe.

Hold on chief, I am not stating she was a traditional Princess. I am stating I don't believe her character would have the same trajectory and be put in that danger. Death Star blown up, evil punished and the princess lives to rule again. Sure Darth got away, but that was just a cute serial anecdote.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by MasturB

I still think Sidious drained her lifeforce and blamed it on Anakin so Vader would be more powerful.

That right there is one of the biggest, overlooked questions: HOW DID Palpatine know she was dead?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Hold on chief, I am not stating she was a traditional Princess. I am stating I don't believe her character would have the same trajectory and be put in that danger.

She wasn't put in danger. She chose that danger. She chose to be part of the rebellion. The character we see in Empire is entirely consistent with the character we saw in Star Wars.

Well, with pants. Which was apparently an important change for some reason or another

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Death Star blown up, evil punished and the princess lives to rule again.

Rule what?

[Show spoiler]

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

That right there is one of the biggest, overlooked questions: HOW DID Palpatine know she was dead?

Could be he felt her death in the Force. Padme wasn't exactly a complete stranger to him. They were from the same planet.

But I like to think that Sidious had something to do with her dying too.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by MasturB

I think it's silly to criticize Padme for losing the will to live. Her would-be husband and father of her children turned into a monster. She didn't wanna believe Obi-Wan, and its' when Anakin doesn't deny any of his allegations that she realizes it's all true.

Her heartbreak legitimately killed her, and whatever life she had left in her body was used to push out the kids.

You're clearly not a parent. Nor a female.

No respectable, intelligent woman would choose some dude she wasn't even married to over her own children.

[Jakdonark]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

That right there is one of the biggest, overlooked questions: HOW DID Palpatine know she was dead?

Because he used his knowledge of the Force and dark side abilities to kill her from across a vast distance of space? Out of all the fan theories I've seen recently this is one I really support. And to touch on what others have been saying about force users connecting or sensing another, my feeling is that it could depend on the strength of the relationship between the two, and/or the specific abilities of that force user. If Plagueis had taught Sidious some unique abilities it would explain why he would be able to remove the life force from Padme and transfer it to Anakin. Luke has a vision of the future from far off but the details are vague. Anakin has very specific images of his mother in pain and dying. Each force user could have a stronger grasp of certain abilities. And Anakin's bond with his mother was probably a lot stronger than Luke's was with Han, and partly Leia. Either or. Just putting that out there.

The other fan theory I really like is one about the Stormtroopers on the first Death Star being ordered to miss to let the heroes get away so they could be tracked. It makes perfect sense when you consider that everywhere else in the trilogy they are generally pretty good shots. Not to mention their rep that "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

You're clearly not a parent. Nor a female.

No respectable, intelligent woman would choose some dude she wasn't even married to over her own children.

Wow a bit personal don't you think?

When it comes to matters of the human will it has nothing to do with respect, it has to do with the fact that she was exhausted and had given up the fight. It had nothing to do with choice. A young women raging on hormones and you are going to hold her to some society based standard???

Women die in child birth all the time...I guess those women aren't respectable?

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Women die in child birth all the time...I guess those women aren't respectable?

That's not what happened and I NEVER said that. She didn't die from complications from childbirth.

SHE. LOST. THE. WILL. TO. LIVE. She just gave birth to two kids and said "F&*% it. I have nothing to live for."
That makes a TON of sense.

[Hardback247]

https://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt...-broken-heart/

https://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt...eart-part-two/

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That's not what happened and I NEVER said that. She didn't die from complications from childbirth.

SHE. LOST. THE. WILL. TO. LIVE. She just gave birth to two kids and said "F&*% it. I have nothing to live for."
That makes a TON of sense.

First of all Anakin wasn't just "some dude"? Marriage has nothing to do with developing a bond with someone you had known for well over 10 years.

There is obviously a maternal bond, but women experience depression all the time and yes they have been known to even hate their children before they are born. Matter of fact, even after they have been born some women had trouble developing a bond with their babies.

So in Padme's case with all that she had been through, I don't know about lost the will to live, but she wasn't in her right mind considering the fact that she had been choked out by someone that she trusted above all others.

I don't know how anyone could judge someone's mind set in those traumatic situations. I would think what she went through was some kind of PTSD and considering everything that she held allegiance to falling apart are you seriously going to judge that?

For crying out loud, she found out that her fiance slaughtered a tons of young kids? She didn't even know if he was truly alive or dead did she???

Look at all she went though up to that point. What I don't get is this respectable comment. Look, I say this with all due respect to you, I don't think the measuring stick of puritanical respectability applies in this instance. I think a lot of that as bull anyway. Children are important no question and they should be protected, but at the same time, to turn your mind away from how the human bond is with what a young mother knows is another story.

It is like Helicopter parents that are actually doing more to hurt their children by only putting them first.

[spanky87]

Originally Posted by WestMan

Debbie Reynolds, Carrie Fisher's mom, has died.

Life imitating art...

In Star Wars, Leia's mom (Padme) loses the will to live after Leia is born.

In real life, Carrie's mom loses the will to live after Carrie dies.

Super sad for the family.

Originally Posted by WestMan

Lazy writing? Come on. There are many documented cases of people dying right after a child or spouse died. They absolutely can lose to will to live.

It wasn't lazy writing in Episode 3. Her last words being: "I miss her so much, I want to be with Carrie."

That is somebody who is just letting go. So sad. Glad she is at peace.

Yesterday someone used Carrie Fisher's death as a reason to say "**** you JJ Abrams for not giving me Jedi Leia in The Force Awakens". Now someone is using Debbie Reynolds' death to defend the prequels.

Wow. Stay classy, Star Wars fans.

[Jakdonark]

Can someone please make a gif of Annie Wilkes with the subtitle "Slipped away? Slipped away?!??"

It seems the death during childbirth thing isn't that new, Paul Sheldon did it with his Misery books (Oh I love them so!) and even Dickens in A Christmas Carol. What about Macbeth's mom? I forget, but I think maybe she gave up the ghost before he was untimely ripped out of her womb.

Anyways, wasn't Padme already in a near death state after being force choked? I have no issues with her "slipping away" after the birth was complete. If anything she was fighting to stay alive long enough to see that her babies were safely delivered. Once that happened and she knew they would be taken care of she let herself relax and die in peace.

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by spanky87

Yesterday someone used Carrie Fisher's death as a reason to say "**** you JJ Abrams for not giving me Jedi Leia in The Force Awakens".

That isn't what I said.
I said, now we will never get TO see Leia be a badass Jedi, because JJ sucks and did her no justice!

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by Jakdonark

Anyways, wasn't Padme already in a near death state after being force choked? I have no issues with her "slipping away" after the birth was complete. If anything she was fighting to stay alive long enough to see that her babies were safely delivered. Once that happened and she knew they would be taken care of she let herself relax and die in peace.

That's how I always saw it.
The robots didn't understand that is all, they they assumed what they did.
Their logic circuits couldn't comprehend The Force

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by ElvisForever

Why is it ridiculous to give my opinions of why I think the film is better?

Carrie Fisher looked better because she wasn't overly skinny and didn't have drug problems like she openly admitted in the other movies.

More feminine comes from the standpoint of coming from a time when a woman had more curves and men found that pleasing. I can see how that can be lost on someone that prefers the look of Rey. Not saying you do, but many don't get this concept because of how they were raised during their tween years.



I responded inaccurately to this and I see your point. You saying she looked the same to me is blind to the severe weight loss she had in the last films due to her admitted drug issues. She most certainly did not look the same.



Ok whatever you say. And I don't. I think you are blind to disregard the looks of an actor and the effect it can have on the perception of the overall artistic image. Of course I am not really saying that because it takes it to a personal level. Saying someone is wrong, is one thing. Making fun of someone's view by making disparaging remarks is another.



The personal part is your assumptions that my further reasons were all going to be ridiculous because they don't agree with your view. It would be like me saying that all the posts you make are pointless. It is a crappy thing to say and it is all based on you as a poster. Maybe you have made pointless posts, maybe you won't in the future. Why would I assume such a thing? I take each post as it comes and other than some trolling behavior, I am not going to make such a swift judgment on you as a person.

But getting back, lets start with the music. Do you or do you not agree that Star Wars has far more original music and more iconic music than Empire has? Is this "ridiculous"?



Ok, your opinion. But going to every iconic score, it is the Star Wars main overture that stands the test of time above all. And that means not even close to me.



Where did I say that Luke vs Darth is lame? I may have said it is lame vs Darth Vs Obi. That is a comparison, but not the same as saying it is straight up lame fight. It is like me saying Empire is inferior to Star Wars. That doesn't equate to inferior film overall. Got it?

As for the fight, I think the Luke vs Darth is long and drawn out and actually laughable in parts. Vader is a beast, but the parts with the obvious fake material being thrown at Luke and the awful acting of Mark Hamil just puts it in a lower place compared to the iconic meeting of Obi Wan and Darth. You think both are just "cool", ok, but I actually compare, and in my world, yes there can be a winner and a loser. Doesn't mean Empire is a bad film, just inferior to Star Wars in my book.



Because I believe the "Princess" would not be fighting for her life in the trenches in the same way. Sure things change, but the story changed in a thousand different ways which I could go on explaining.

Anyway, I have stated my side and your assumption is that anything I say in defense is just "ridiculous", so we can just agree to disagree. To put it bluntly in your own words, how I feel about the reasons to back up my claim are worthy of mockery. I don't work like that, and if you give a true effort on a response there is no way I am going to disparage you like that.

Okay, I went overboard when I said that most of your reasons would probably be ridiculous, but I think the reason that "Leia was hotter" in the first film is strange. She's supposed to be some strong, regal character who also happens to be a princess. If you're saying she looks healthier in the film due to her being a drug addict and losing weight in the other two, okay. But that doesn't make the film better or worse. That would be like someone saying they like Star Wars better than Empire because they think Mark Hamill was better looking before his car accident.

In terms of the score, it's hard for me to decide which one I like better. Star Wars introduced a lot of the main iconic themes, but maybe the most iconic theme is The Imperial March, which made its debut in Empire. I also find Yoda's Theme to be one of the best in the franchise, as well as the love theme for Han and Leia.

[ElvisForever]

Originally Posted by Hardback247

https://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt...-broken-heart/

https://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt...eart-part-two/

Those are some great links. I can't say I agree with all of it, but it does strike home that she was fighting till the bitter end.

I will never accept a droid prognosis or sometimes even the Jedi council that I feel couldn't find their...with two hands and a flashlight.

The thing about Padme is that she knew what was going on, but didn't want to believe it. When she said she was scared, it was clear that she heard what had been going on, and knew what Anakin was capable of.

As for current event, I think Debbie Reynolds death is proof positive about how stress can lead to health issues. How don't know how anyone could not understand the similarities of this very discussion.

This is a sad thing indeed. HORRIBLE.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That wasn't the argument. It was always that it wasn't possible.

One is a question of scientific plausibility and the other is artistic stupidity.

Well, the science is, emotional stress of that nature is a lot harder on an 84-year-old body than a 20-something year-old body.

But yes, I agree with the artistic stupidity.

[cynatnite]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

You're clearly not a parent. Nor a female.

No respectable, intelligent woman would choose some dude she wasn't even married to over her own children.

I'm a parent and a female and a human earth one at that.

I think applying our standards to Padme losing the will to live is a mistake. Plus, her and Anakin did secretly marry.

I do think Sidious had something to do with her death as well. That whole scene with her dying would make more sense if there had been a better explanation.

Luke said to Leia that the force was strong in his family. I've often wondered if Padme had some of that mojo. If they'd taken that step in the movies as well, it would make far more sense when she dies.